Tires for the Northwest? Rain even snow tires?

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If you really searching for such a tire, you may want to check out the Nokian NR series, optimized for the prevailing nonwinter conditions around Helsinki.




The Nokians would be on my car right now IF they were made in my size. But alas, they are ONLY offered in Euro/import sizes (like much else)
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. These are EXACTLY what I am looking for as we get real cold temps here, but VERY LITTLE actual snow. In fact, when it is coldest, it is also the dryest around here.
Do you, or CapriRacer know what would be the "next best" "thermoelastic" compounded tires to meet these needs of DRY, COLD conditions??? Are there ANY summer/max performance compounds that DO NOT turn to "blocks of ice" once the thermometer drops below 45*??



I can speak from personal experience about specific tire models that are excellent down to the 20s (F.). In the past, I have run Nokian NRV tires (a now-discontinued model that has been replaced with a different tire of the same model designation), so I use them as a point of reference for direct comparison. We don't get temperatures below 25 or so degrees here (Oregon) very often, so I cannot attest to how well the tires mentioned below would do when it gets_really cold.

Two excellent tires thar I have I have had good experiences with in the cold on my own cars are the Dunlop SP Sport 01 http://www.dunloptyres.co.uk/ourTyres/car/searchResults/SPSport01/ and the Yokohama ADVAN Sport http://advan.com/products/advansport.html. You will have to check whether either is available in a size to fit your car.
 
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I think most of us here realize that slicks would not be street legal. Since street tires have to be grooved, the tread pattern does have an effect on traction in dry and wet conditions. I don't see why this is so hard to understand. It may not be the only thing, but it does have an effect.




Of course treads have an effect.

In dry conditions, and compared to a slick tire, a tread design can have only a negative virtue. It can damage handling and braking less than other tread designs, but it cannot help.

The raison d'etre of a tread pattern is to move water around on the road surface. If there is water on the surface, you want it to be moved from the place where the tire contacts the surface so that there will be tire to pavement contact. If the water cannot be moved -- that is, if the surface is merely wet, with no free-standing water on it -- the tread pattern does you no good. But yes: when there is standing water on the street, the tread pattern does have an effect, and the effect may be beneficial.

Incidentally, as slick tires are not street legal in the United States, in Bridgestone's home country, Japan, all season tires are not street legal. You could not have purchased your Bridgestone RE960 tires in Japan.
 
I don't keep tabs on performance tires, but from what I have seen the ones with good rain performance seem to have a directional pattern, a 'V' is common', to channel water, maybe with traditional grooving, but not lots of siping. Such tires seem to get good marks for handling in the wet and dry, tire life usually isn't as much of a concern for those seeking more peformance, but such tires also seem to do poorly as winter tires. Most good winter tires seem to have lots of / more siping, and studs for ice.
 
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I don't keep tabs on performance tires, but from what I have seen the ones with good rain performance seem to have a directional pattern, a 'V' is common', to channel water, maybe with traditional grooving, but not lots of siping. Such tires seem to get good marks for handling in the wet and dry, tire life usually isn't as much of a concern for those seeking more peformance, but such tires also seem to do poorly as winter tires.




Strictly from a water channeling standpoint, there may be a slight advantage in a directional tread pattern. The major disadvantage of a directional tread pattern is that the tires cannot be rotated from side to side without dismounting and flipping them. An asymmetrical tread pattern (and even more, an asymmetrical inner construction, which sometimes accompanies an asymmetrical tread pattern) provides different (but, IMHO, better) advantages. An asymmetrical tire can be rotated from side to side (as well, of course, as front to rear).

Tires optimized for wet braking necessarily will be ineffective as snow tires.
 
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I think most of us here realize that slicks would not be street legal. Since street tires have to be grooved, the tread pattern does have an effect on traction in dry and wet conditions. I don't see why this is so hard to understand. It may not be the only thing, but it does have an effect.




Of course treads have an effect.

In dry conditions, and compared to a slick tire, a tread design can have only a negative virtue. It can damage handling and braking less than other tread designs, but it cannot help.

The raison d'etre of a tread pattern is to move water around on the road surface. If there is water on the surface, you want it to be moved from the place where the tire contacts the surface so that there will be tire to pavement contact. If the water cannot be moved -- that is, if the surface is merely wet, with no free-standing water on it -- the tread pattern does you no good. But yes: when there is standing water on the street, the tread pattern does have an effect, and the effect may be beneficial.



Doesn't matter. In order to sell a tire for use on the street in North America, it's going to have to be grooved. That's a limitation of course, but that's one reason why so much attention is paid to tread design as well as belt design/materials. They're balancing all sorts of characteristics, like steering response and handling. Wet and dry traction are among the characteristics that are affected by tread design. There's also a heavy correlation between carcass design and performance characteristics. When I bought my Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S tires, I emailed their technical support to ask what was the difference between that and the 3-season P Zero Nero other than just tread material and available sizes. I was told the carcass was designed to create a smaller contact patch to increase pressure against the pavement. This was supposed to help with snow traction (which I thought still sucked) as well as wet traction. The 3-season P Zero Nero was tuned for dry conditions. They want a larger contact patch that improves dry handling. While the rubber material probably did give it an overall edge in wet traction over the M+S version, they did things to make the M+S version a more than adequate wet weather tire.

I'll just bring up something many are familiar with - the common "deck shoe" like a Sperry Topsider. The rubber material is inherently hydrophilic, but they place hundreds of tiny little "wave" cuts in the sole which bite onto wet surfaces and "squeegee" water away from the surface. Or you could compare a solid rubber sole to a treaded sole like a hiking boot. The solid rubber is great on dry pavement but can get slippery even on merely damp pavement, while treaded soles create more pressure on a smaller area.

Tire companies have small armies of chemists and engineers working on formulas and designs. With Bridgestone-Firestone is the world's biggest tire company. I would think that when they set their mind to creating a superior wet traction all-season tire, they can; I believe this is what they did with the Potenza RE960AS. There are a whole host of reasons why someone might stop faster in wet weather. It could be the vehicle (SUV, econobox, family sedan, sports car) driven, manufacturer's choice of tire/wheel size, brakes, loading, etc. I can tell you that my WRX on the RE960AS will stop sooner than a loaded Suburban on the best wet weather "3-seasons". Many people have made the decision to get all-season tires for any number of legitimate reasons. Since they dominate the NA market, there are far more choices, and they often come in excellent price ranges with better durability to boot. They're almost all that's available now in smaller (13-14") sizes. Manufacturers have improved their performance in wet weather with state-of-the-art materials and tread design. Maybe there's something slightly better out there, but a really good all-season tire can be an informed choice for wet weather traction.
 
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There's also a heavy correlation between carcass design and performance characteristics. When I bought my Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S tires, I emailed their technical support to ask what was the difference between that and the 3-season P Zero Nero other than just tread material and available sizes. I was told the carcass was designed to create a smaller contact patch to increase pressure against the pavement.



I am not questioning that you are reporting accurately what they told you, but it makes no sense. The size of the contact patch is a function of the pressure to which the tire is inflated: a tire that is inflated to 32 psi will have a larger contact patch than than the same tire will when inflated to 35 psi, and at 41 psi the contact patch will be smaller still. IOW, to get a smaller contact patch, it is not necessary to alter the construction of the tire; all that is needed is to pump a few more pounds of air into it.

IIRC, the carcass of the P Zero Nero M & S is built around inexpensive polyester plies, while that of the P Zero Nero is built around more expensive rayon plies (rayon has a more linear characteristic over a wider range of temperatures than polyester does, justifying the extra cost for a tire where performance is important). So, even though the tread design of the P Zero Nero is identical to the tread design of the P Zero Nero M & S, they are different tires. And it is the tread compound of the M & S tire that allows it to stick to snow, simultaneously undercutting its wet braking ability compared to the P Zero Nero.

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I'll just bring up something many are familiar with - the common "deck shoe" like a Sperry Topsider. The rubber material is inherently hydrophilic, but they place hundreds of tiny little "wave" cuts in the sole which bite onto wet surfaces and "squeegee" water away from the surface. Or you could compare a solid rubber sole to a treaded sole like a hiking boot. The solid rubber is great on dry pavement but can get slippery even on merely damp pavement, while treaded soles create more pressure on a smaller area.



It is a little bit more complicated than that. On the route where I walk our dog is a quarter-mile stretch of wooden sidewalk. In the rainy winter months in Portland, that wooden surface can get quite slippery, and I often walk out in the street in the asphalt pavement to avoid slipping.

However, my footwear makes a very great difference. Most days, I am wearing New Balance M807 trail running shoes when I walk the dog. Those shoes (which currently are about halfway through their useful life) have a tread, but walking on the wooden sidewalk is like walking on slick ice when the sidewalk is wet.

Some days, however, I wear a pair of Doc Marten's (the old version, made in England). The soles of those, while not yet completely worn out, are getting fairly smooth. Counter to your theory, the Docs have some grip -- not great, but much more than the New Balances -- despite their near smooth surface.

Again, it is the tread compound, not the tread design, that appears to make all the difference.
 
"Some days, however, I wear a pair of Doc Marten's (the old version, made in England). The soles of those, while not yet completely worn out, are getting fairly smooth. Counter to your theory, the Docs have some grip -- not great, but much more than the New Balances -- despite their near smooth surface."

I'll guess that the Doc Martens have stiffer soles, which makes for a smaller contact patch with higher pressure. With a large enough contact patch of low pressure you end up 'floating' on a film of water.
 
Have seen good reviews of TOYO's snow tires that use ground walnuts in their tire online . I was considering this tire for our PRIUS next winter season . GROUND WALNUTS for more bite ,
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. www.toyo.com for pics,details . GOOD LUCK
 
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