MX-5 tire choices

I’ll put my vote In for the dws06+. About to help a friend purchase a set for her ride. My only druthers against them is that as quiet and well mannered as they are, and good in the rain, the sidewalls are a little on the soft side. They will work well for her Camry with 17” or maybe 18” wheels however, because there’s not much sidewall to start with.

I had a set of the previous model on our Lexus GS, a heavy sedan, and they did many things well. I did not keep them because their noise profile in that chassis whistled at 70, which was baffling for such a quiet tire - I’m convinced it was the way that car is tuned for nvh, not the tire. However, they were so good at everything else that I may give them another shot later.
 
The 2% seems to be difference in the dry.
I could not find the difference in the wet. I suspect the difference in the wet is a little bigger (10% would be my guess).

Are you willing to loose performance and feel for occasional, possible snow, when you can plan your trip around forecast?

Only you can answer this.

Why no have local set of summer tires and all seasons for trip out west?

Krzys
Actually it's not anywhere near a 10% loss. That "2%" was a quote from his mouth in the video (9:30 secs into video). But I pulled the data from his times and distances and this is how it breaks down ... these are contrasting the ECS to the DWS06+; here's what the A/S gives up ...
Wet handling loss: 3%
Wet braking loss: 10%
Hydroplaning loss: 1%
Dry handling loss: 3%
Dry braking loss: 4%

Though he did not post the numbers for the winter conditions in this video, he did mention that they A/S tire was 60% better in handling and 200% better in stopping distance and traction over the summer tire.

The A/S tire gives up an average of 4% loss to the summer only tire in "hot track conditions" (TX summer heat; over 100F track surface).
The A/S tire gains 60% handing and 200% braking/traction in snow over the ECS. (average "gain" of 130%, not knowing any other numbers but what he spoke of in the summary section).

Give up 4%, but gain 130% when it's crappy snowy outside. That, in my mind, is a very good trade off.

I think I'll get the A/S tires, and see how they fair. If I don't think they are as capable as needed for "summer" only driving, I guess I can get some ECSs on the side.
 
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If my screwdriver is 130% better handling screws than my hammer - is it good or bad?
10% better braking in the wet would be a selling point for me to have 2 set of tires.
Wait! It is. I do have summer and winter tires for all vehicles.

Krzyś
 
If my screwdriver is 130% better handling screws than my hammer - is it good or bad?
10% better braking in the wet would be a selling point for me to have 2 set of tires.
Wait! It is. I do have summer and winter tires for all vehicles.

Krzyś
I understand what you're saying, and I don't disagree with you. In fact, I also have dedicated all-season and winter tire/wheel sets for our daily drivers. My Taurus has it's OEM Michelin MXM4 A/S tires (garbage in need of replacing soon) and General Altimax Artic's; my wife's Fusion has Conti PureContacts for A/S and Hankook i'cept IZ2's for winter. Having the winter-dedicated tires are an absolute must where we live; a VERY hilly area of Indiana with up to 12% grades. But all that comes with the luxury of seasonal tires changes which are predicable and easily swapped tires in my garage. I typically swap over to the snow season tires right after Thanksgiving, and they come off before Easter.

The unique challenge here with my MX-5 is that I may well experience ALL FOUR SEASONS of driving in one single two-week trip. When we go from fall rains leaving Indiana, out to potential snow in the Rockies, to extreme dry heat in AZ and UT, all in one trip, I no longer have the luxury of changing sets of tires when the forcast changes from day to day, or even hour to hour.

Keep in mind that as much as I am very hard on tires (extreme cornering mostly), I don't "track day" the car. I don't need racing tires. If it's raining, and I have to slow down 5mph to compensate for that 10% wet braking loss, so be it. The hydroplaning scores of the two tires we're discussing are darn near equal; only 68mph vs 67mph; that's a pittance. The dry handling and dry braking scores of the A/S tires were very, very near the summer-only tire; impressively so.

With the DWS06+, I can get almost all of the summer tire experience with a huge potential advantage of snow capability, if snow happens (and it certainly has happened to us before, mostly in CO and WY).

You are right, it'd be great to have two sets of tires/rims for the Mazda. And someday I proabably will, but that's not in the budget at the moment. So I'll get the A/S tires now, and perhaps in the furture get another set of rims/tires for summer rips in summer only climes.
 
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Are you willing to loose performance and feel for occasional, possible snow, when you can plan your trip around forecast?
I realize that my mind is made up regarding the tires, and in no way am I trying to drag this out, but I thought the following will add perspective to why, though snow is rare on our trips, it's a very real concern. And also why having snow-capable tires with "200%" better traction and stopping over the summer tires makes sense for our travel applications.
Check out this map for Red Lodge, MT:

Here are two real-life scenarios that happened to me ...

Example 1:
Now imagine you're on a 2 week trip, and so you're on a schedule. You wake up one morning in Red Lodge, MT and you plan is to travel the Bear Tooth Pass up to Yellowstone, where you have reservations in NP lodging. You gear up for your motorcycle ride, and start south on US-212. It's predicted to rain in the mountains, and it does look gloomy. As you travel southward (up the mountain), the rain starts; it's not a downpour, but a steady moderate rain. And you gain elevation ... and the temps drop, big time. At around 7500' elevation, it starts to spit snow in with the rain. At 8000' it's full on snowing. At 8500' it's a full on blizzard; so much so that when I look in my mirrors, the only way I know my riding buddy is behind me is that I can occasionally see the headlight of his Goldwing flash my line-of-sight as we go though the switchbacks because his white 'Wing is 100% blending into the blizzard conditions; if not for his headlight, I'd not know he was 20 yards behind me. By now, there's about 2'-3' of snow on the asphalt pavement, and still accumulating. I am (literally) idling uphill in 2nd gear so that I don't loose traction and struggle to maintain forward uphill momentum. Finally, after an hour of butt-puckering terror trying to avoid slipping and falling, you crest over the peak at nearly 11,000', and head downhill. Now, you're full of fear for a whole other reason; not being able to control gravity going downhill ... you can't hit the brakes without a true concern for locking up the tires, and so you're tring to balance on the feathery edge of using compression braking in 2nd gear, along with a VERY judicious use of some ultra-light rear brake as you approach the corners. As you come down the "backside" (south side) of the Bear Tooth pass, you drop in elevation. Around 9000', the snow is tappering off. The precipitation is not stopping, it's just changing back to rain rather than snow. NEVER, EVER in my ENTIRE LIFE have I been so freakin' happy to see RAIN !!! The road is now wet and not snow-ice covered. And you continue your journey into Yellowstone NP, and that evening have a stiff belt of bourbon and laugh (nervously) about the day's adventure.

So, some might as why not turn around and find another route? Well, take a second look at that map. It would be, quite literally, many hundreds of miles to "turn around" and go back the way your came and attempt another route; that's time we simply didn't have. We do have jobs; we can't just sitt idle for a day or two and blow off the schdule. When you live in Indiana and are traveling in Wyoming, it's not like you can just get home in the snap of your fingers. Or, you could turn around and sit idle in Red Lodge for a whole day; again, blowing your schedule out and messing up all your subsequent hotel reservations by a day or two.

Example 2:
Similar situation, but this time I'm riding with my wife, and we're on the trip alone in a different year; no riding with another bike. And again, we're in Yellowstone NP. It's been a beautiful trip so far, cool but clear. We're staying in primitive lodging, and this is many years ago; long before smart phones. We wake up on our morning to depart, and find 3" of fresh snow covering, well, everything ... including the bison sleeping about 10' from our cabin door! Not wanting to be a statistic, I stood inside the door and starting barking (literally like a large dog) and finally woke the beast, and he got up and sauntered off. Then we had to go clean the bike off and pack our bags. And now we depart, only now fears are multipled because having a passenger (even a good one who knows how to sit still on the back) makes for some very lethargic handing and greater braking distances in the snow. This time we're heading down to the southern exit; towards the Grand Tetons. A couple of hours of white-knuckle, low speed riding really takes the fun out of the ride. There's no ability to enjoy the scenery when you're 100% concentrating on just staying on the road and upright.

After 30 years of riding touring bikes, we finally hung it up and got the MX-5 as a compromise; still very sporty and "open air" experience, but a tad safer and comfortable. Not a lot more luggage space, but a fair amout of fuel distance gained as well. We like the MX-5; it's nearly the same experience with a tad "more" of most things.

My point about weather and tires? With my MX-5, having A/S tires that, while they are not dedicated snow tires, are at least capable of safely progressing at some sane speed up/down/around mountain passes may well mean the difference between being stuck in some remote town (best case scenario) or having a dreadful accident just trying to negotiate some really steep and slippery mountain pass (worst case, especially if there's personal injury). Being able to simply continue forward momentum, and just as important, stop forward momentum, is a HUGE advantage in these "what if ..." scenarios. And they do happen, though rare for the season (it was early September in both examples above). Like I said, it's not like we can pull off the side of the road and swap out a set of summer ECS for the A/S DWS06+ while on a mountain pass. While the MX-5 has more room than a touring motorcycle, it surely doesn't have room for a set of four wheels/tires plus luggage ...

Simply put, it's not easy, and sometimes improbable, to "plan your trip around" forecasted weather when you're a thousand miles from home, and your route is very time/distance sensitive.

If I give up 4% of wet/dry handling by choosing the A/S UHP tire of the dedicated summer UHP tire, but I can gain "60%" better snow handing control and "200%" better tractive and stopping power by choosing that A/S UHP tire, then that's a very good trade off I'm happy to make. It could, quite literally, save us from a ruined trip, or worse, true harm to our car or bodies.
 
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I have a feeling you may end up losing 'more' than that in dry grip. I've never tried the new DWS06 but the previous version to that had extremely soft sidewalls more akin to a touring A/S tire. Combined with the lack of turn response, overall [dry] grip, and the tire noise when the tires start reaching their limit (which is not that much), I lost a lot of confidence using that tire. For example, you may not be able to swerve out the way if you come across an obstacle in the middle of your lane on the highway at night because the turn response is that bad.

I would personally choose the Pilot A/S 3+ or 4 if it came to dry and wet grip with the possibility of handling snow in an emergency. Not that the DWS06 is bad but I'd stick that more on a luxury barge before a miata.
 
Pew -

I understand your point, but I'll counter ... I assume you've never had the DWS06Plus tires? The video link I provided was an honest review from a well-respected tyre (Brit) review guy. All his tire tests are run "blind"; he is unaware of what tires are on the car and simply rates them as "set 1; set 2; set 3 ...". He used objective measures such as track times and distances; he didn't "guess" what the performance was - he measured it. Only after his testing is complete does he then know which tire brand/model was "set 1" or "set 2", etc. I'll take his objective data over your subjective "feeling". You may be right, but you've not really given me any reason to believe your "feeling" has merit; it lacks any objective credible standing.

The DWS06Plus is in Conti's "Extreme Contact" line-up; it is, afer all, a UHP tire. It's not a touring tire; it's a Ultra High Performance - All Season application. How well would it stack up against the Pilots you mention? Well, we don't know because I've not seen a test of those two specific tires compared/contrasted yet. The Conti DWS06Plus is a step well up from the "normal" DWS06; the "Plus" was designed to close the gap with summer tires, and it seems they've hit the mark quite well.

I certainly agree that your suggestion of the Pilot Sport A/S 4 is a good one; they are very well reviewed in serveral sources. But they also are about $25/tire more, and I doubt that they are worth that much over the newly released DWS06Plus. I saw that Pilot Sport A/S 4 reviewed by Tyre Reivews, and it did well, except that in full snow, it wasn't that impressive. If you've read my accounts of horror in snow above, you'd know why snow traction is very important for me, even in a UHP tire.

The deed is done; the Conti's are purchased. Once I get some time on them, I'll return with a subjective review. The only frame of reference I have is the OEM tires which came off; they are Bridgestone S001 - a summer only tire which are aimed at "efficiency", if you can believe that.
 
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honestly, 200% better traction and 60% better handling in snow vs a UHP summer tyre is not that impressive either. I would say they're maybe on par with regular all season tyres, likely not even that. Even regular touring summer tyres are a step up from UHP in snow.

The snow capability is really for emergency use here, if snow performance is really required you need to go a bit beyond dws06+ and likely Michelin Sport A/S 4.
 
Did you consider the Extreme Contact Sports? (summer only). Or were you specifically interested in an all season tire? I'm a bit concerned about the Sports not having the wet weather abilities, but I'm attracted to their more focused performance characteristics.

I'm considering the General AS-05s (very price effective for what you get, but perhaps not the better in overall abilities)

Also considering the BStone Potenza P-S04, or perhaps the Potenza Sports.

My wife had General AS-05s on her Audi A4 quattro. They would flat spot when the car sat for several days.
 
honestly, 200% better traction and 60% better handling in snow vs a UHP summer tyre is not that impressive either. I would say they're maybe on par with regular all season tyres, likely not even that. Even regular touring summer tyres are a step up from UHP in snow.

The snow capability is really for emergency use here, if snow performance is really required you need to go a bit beyond dws06+ and likely Michelin Sport A/S 4.
The Michelin does well when the snow/ice coverage is moderate and pavement can be reached. If there's accumulation of snow which prevents the tires touching pavement, they didn't fair that well. /see this video:

My goal here is to have a tire that is fun to drive, and yet will be able to get me out of a butt-puckering situation when an unavoidable snow event happens.

ANY tire is ALWAYS a compromise ...
UHP summer tires are poor when the temps drop, and terrible in snow. But they kick postieror in the dry/wet above 45F.
UHP A/S tires are good, but not as good, as summer UHPs. They give up a little, but gain a little when temps drop and precip changes phase state.
Traditional A/S touring tires are better in the cold and snow, but not as good as dedicated snow tires.
Snow tires rock in the winter, but suck everywhere else.

I picked a UHP A/S because it will provide 90% (or better) of the summer UHP performance, but it may well keep me from being stranded or wrecking in a snowy mountain pass. I picked the Conti's because they were about $100 less for the set of four; a 15% savings. There's every reason to believe that the DWS06Plus will do just about as well as the Pilot Sport All Season 4; they are both UHP A/S tires from their respective brands, and they both typically are at the top of every tire-reviewer's top three picks. If ya want to be brand loyal to one or the other, that's cool by me. But I see the 15% savings as $100 I can save towards a set of dedicated summer UHP tire/wheel combo. I have yet to see any video that directly compares/contrasts the Conti to the Michelin in UHP A/S. But as near as I can tell, both would fit my needs and do well. So I'm going to save some money to buy another set of dedicated summer fun tires.
 
I picked a UHP A/S because it will provide 90% (or better) of the summer UHP performance, but it may well keep me from being stranded or wrecking in a snowy mountain pass.
I've been very disappointed with all UHP A/S tires I've owned (Bridgestone RE960, RE970, and Conti DWS). They sucked in the dry (compared to summer UHP tires) - slower steering response and too easy to spin in the dry, and they sucked in any kind of winter driving conditions, unless the roads are completely dry. I went out with my RE960 once during just light dusting of snow - it was extremely dicey. I would never do it again.

For your sake, I hope the DWS06+ is better.
 
The Michelin does well when the snow/ice coverage is moderate and pavement can be reached. If there's accumulation of snow which prevents the tires touching pavement, they didn't fair that well. /see this video:

My goal here is to have a tire that is fun to drive, and yet will be able to get me out of a butt-puckering situation when an unavoidable snow event happens.

ANY tire is ALWAYS a compromise ...
UHP summer tires are poor when the temps drop, and terrible in snow. But they kick postieror in the dry/wet above 45F.
UHP A/S tires are good, but not as good, as summer UHPs. They give up a little, but gain a little when temps drop and precip changes phase state.
Traditional A/S touring tires are better in the cold and snow, but not as good as dedicated snow tires.
Snow tires rock in the winter, but suck everywhere else.

I picked a UHP A/S because it will provide 90% (or better) of the summer UHP performance, but it may well keep me from being stranded or wrecking in a snowy mountain pass. I picked the Conti's because they were about $100 less for the set of four; a 15% savings. There's every reason to believe that the DWS06Plus will do just about as well as the Pilot Sport All Season 4; they are both UHP A/S tires from their respective brands, and they both typically are at the top of every tire-reviewer's top three picks. If ya want to be brand loyal to one or the other, that's cool by me. But I see the 15% savings as $100 I can save towards a set of dedicated summer UHP tire/wheel combo. I have yet to see any video that directly compares/contrasts the Conti to the Michelin in UHP A/S. But as near as I can tell, both would fit my needs and do well. So I'm going to save some money to buy another set of dedicated summer fun tires.


UHP tyres rock at any temperature as long as it's dry, actually. When it's warm enough it can be wet aswell.

And I know winter tyres suck when it's not wintery that's why I was so happy with my crossclimates for winter use. I only give up a few % of winter performance with them.
 
Just an update ...

I certainly made the right choice in going with UHP A/S tires. I was coming back from CA last week, and got into the remnants of the snow storm that hit the Sierra mountains. And as I continued eastward, I got into some snow/ice in the Rockies along CO65 and CO92; state roads that I'd taken before in good weather. When I got into the high country last Thursday, it was nothing but ice and snow above 8000 ft.
The Conti's I chose (DWS 06 Plus) were outstanding in handling the weather and road conditions. I actually enjoyed driving (albiet carefully in the twistly parts); it was impressive the amount of grip they had in the 5 deg F cold. I would have been stranded if I had chosen the UHP summer-only tires.

What little (and I mean very little) I gave up in summer grip, I more than made up for in the confidence to proceed in adverse weather.

I highly recommend these tires to anyone who's considering them. If you don't need that last 10/10ths of handling, the 9/10ths of handling you get from these is compensated by some serious adverse weather capability. If you really need that 10/10ths of handing, you're probably better off getting a DOT approve track-type tire (TW200, etc). Otherwise, these DWS-06 Plus tires are an outstanding compromise between good handling and braking in "normal" weather, but can save your butt if the precip is below freezing.
 
The Michelin does well when the snow/ice coverage is moderate and pavement can be reached. If there's accumulation of snow which prevents the tires touching pavement, they didn't fair that well. /see this video:


I'm glad the Contis are working out for you.

As a point of order the OE Corvette tires are not the same as the retail versions, they were actually developed earlier and had to be ready earlier so they are even less similar than typical "OE" versions. I believe it is one of the Tire Rack videos where the Michelin rep discusses this.

So the results in the video may or may not correlate to other PS-AS4.
 
Interested in opinions for tires for my 2019 MX-5 ...

Here's the criteria I'm using as important in the decision:
- the car is a Club model with the Brembo/BBS brake and wheel package
- going to be summer only (we park it in winter; snow/ice are a non-issue)
- the tires need to have decent wet weather performance, because we take this on long distance trips and rain happens!
- I don't want to break the bank (I understand that toys cost money, but perhaps $150/tire would be my max price)
- I want to retain (at a minimum) the performance we have now (OEM tires are Bstone Potenza S001)
- we probably will drive it about 7-10k miles a year, treadlife is perhaps secondary to handling/braking/wet-weather priorities. I don't need 90k tread life.

Here's the brands I prefer, but I'm not locked into them: General, Continental, Michelin, Bridgestone

I'd like to hear about tires you've had experience with that would meet the above criteria.

Praising snow performance while claiming in original post that "snow/ice are a non-issue" is interesting.

Krzys
 
Just an update ...

I certainly made the right choice in going with UHP A/S tires. I was coming back from CA last week, and got into the remnants of the snow storm that hit the Sierra mountains. And as I continued eastward, I got into some snow/ice in the Rockies along CO65 and CO92; state roads that I'd taken before in good weather. When I got into the high country last Thursday, it was nothing but ice and snow above 8000 ft.
The Conti's I chose (DWS 06 Plus) were outstanding in handling the weather and road conditions. I actually enjoyed driving (albiet carefully in the twistly parts); it was impressive the amount of grip they had in the 5 deg F cold. I would have been stranded if I had chosen the UHP summer-only tires.

What little (and I mean very little) I gave up in summer grip, I more than made up for in the confidence to proceed in adverse weather.

I highly recommend these tires to anyone who's considering them. If you don't need that last 10/10ths of handling, the 9/10ths of handling you get from these is compensated by some serious adverse weather capability. If you really need that 10/10ths of handing, you're probably better off getting a DOT approve track-type tire (TW200, etc). Otherwise, these DWS-06 Plus tires are an outstanding compromise between good handling and braking in "normal" weather, but can save your butt if the precip is below freezing.
I would say more like 6/10ths handling.
 
Praising snow performance while claiming in original post that "snow/ice are a non-issue" is interesting.

Krzys
A/S are good in that transition period from Summer to Fall/beginning of winter or from winter/early spring to spring. Otherwise, summer they are blah, end in winter a garbage.
 
Praising snow performance while claiming in original post that "snow/ice are a non-issue" is interesting.

Krzys
You already objeced on that ground once before, and I expained it in very accurate detail. While it is not my primary concern to handle snow/ice for an entire seaon (car is parked in winter), the car will (and most certainly did) experience "winter" conditions in the fall in the mountains for a few days. Had I chosen the summer-only tires, I would have been stranded or potentially had a wreck. The UPH A/S tires got me through with aplomb.

When you take a drive from IN to CA and back, you're going to cross the Rockies and other mountains. If you do it in the fall, you most certainly can experience "winter" in October. In fact, it was downright "hot" the week before as I was going through NM and AZ. The A/S aspect of the tires served me very well, because I experienced all four seasons of weather exposure in just two weeks. High 90s F in the first week and only 5 deg F as a low on CO SR 65 the next. From dry, to rain to snow/ice. I'm driving a MX-5; it's not like I have the spare storage room to carry a full compliment of 4 extra tires/wheels with me. I don't have the luxury of pulling into a garage and swapping from summer to winter tires. I need a tire that can do it all; one that is biased towards sporty driving but can safely survive some frozen precipitation.

For anyone who wants a very good UPH A/S tire, I highly recommend the DWS-06 Plus. It's not the "best" for any one application. It's a VERY GOOD tire for nearly all applications.

YMMV.
 
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