Daughter is attending university in Washington and will be driving a '07 Subaru Impreza 2.5i It comes with Bridgestone Potenza RE-92A's which according to Tire Rack have mixed wet/cold weather reviews. Any suggestions for a good tire for wet weather? Stock size is 205/55/16. We live in southern Southern California so we do not get much rain. If snow tires are needed, recommendations? TIA!
Tires for the Northwest? Rain even snow tires?
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We live in Portland (Oregon), 165 miles +/- south. Portland is the "Mostest Subaruest" place in the world (when I drive to downtown from our hill, I sometimes will see more than 50% Subaru Outbacks among the cars on the street), and our thirtysomething son (just like everyone else) owns a Subaru Legacy Outback Wagon.
We put our money where our mouth is: this past Christmas, as a Christmas gift, we gave our son and his fiancée a set of Dunlop SP Sport 01 tires to replace the worn tires on his vehicle. We have run that specific tire on our own (non-Subaru) vehicle here in Portland, and it is a simply terrific tire. For your daughter, you would get it in the 215/55R16 size.
In Seattle/Portland, we get only one to three days of real snow a year, but a_lot_of wet pavement days. For those conditions, a "summer" (three-season) tire is indicated, because a three-season tire is very much superior to an all-season tire in the wet. Among three-season tires, the Dunlop SP Sport 01 is a winner, with an unbelievably favorable performance-to-price ratio. It steers very precisely, brakes superbly, and is surprisingly quiet.
Stock tires with legal tread is plenty good. Being front wheel drive it'll do fine. The U is low in altitude and near the water so doesn't see much snow or freezing, maybe a couple time a year. When it happens the scooby will do just fine IMO, once she learns to drive on it. Seattle is not a special tire needed part of the country.
AWD will keep her from getting stuck in the snow. But, common sense while driving in inclement weather is the most important.
My issue with AWD/4WD is that around here every yahoo ends up on their roof. I saw about 1/2 dozen vehicles tires up in last weeks snow storm. AWD's false sense of security and speed are major accident causers.
I don't care for RE92's. But, you should have no problem running them for ~30k+ or so. Then upgrade.
Use any tire that has all-season performance with AA-traction and A-temperature. If snow isn't an issue, skip over the all-season tires for summer ones.
Since its not turbo(right?), you don't have to select among speed ratings.
Depending on yearly mileage buildup, pick a threadwear over 300 so that you won't be changing too frequently.
The above will easily remove plenty of pathetic tires and you can shop on price, availability, user opinions.....from the various online stores and local tire shops.
My issue with AWD/4WD is that around here every yahoo ends up on their roof. I saw about 1/2 dozen vehicles tires up in last weeks snow storm. AWD's false sense of security and speed are major accident causers.
I don't care for RE92's. But, you should have no problem running them for ~30k+ or so. Then upgrade.
Use any tire that has all-season performance with AA-traction and A-temperature. If snow isn't an issue, skip over the all-season tires for summer ones.
Since its not turbo(right?), you don't have to select among speed ratings.
Depending on yearly mileage buildup, pick a threadwear over 300 so that you won't be changing too frequently.
The above will easily remove plenty of pathetic tires and you can shop on price, availability, user opinions.....from the various online stores and local tire shops.
This last year Seattle produced images of cars three and more layers deep piled up on corners and such, more than one once. Portalnd was infamous for the 'pinball SUV' bouncing off of several poles, cars, and whatnot.
Decent all season tires do fine on moderate snow, but snow isn't usually problem around here, ice is the problem even it's not common. Either plan on staying home if conditions are bad, or use chains if you aren't going to get decent snow tires. If you plan on driving outside of town then you might need 'traction devices' on some roads, which will be either severe snow rated tires or chains. There have been times when it was chains only regardless of what you drive, and other times when they just close the roads, interstates included.
Decent all season tires do fine on moderate snow, but snow isn't usually problem around here, ice is the problem even it's not common. Either plan on staying home if conditions are bad, or use chains if you aren't going to get decent snow tires. If you plan on driving outside of town then you might need 'traction devices' on some roads, which will be either severe snow rated tires or chains. There have been times when it was chains only regardless of what you drive, and other times when they just close the roads, interstates included.
Check out Les Schwab on their newest Toyo tires. If you have any problems with their tires, they back them up. LS is all over the PacNorWest.
I wouldn't recommend Les Schwab to anyone. They are soo over priced on their Toyo's. Seeing they are the only Toyo dealer in the Northwest, people still buy from them. You can save about $30-$40 per tire by buying Toyo's online and they going to your local tire shop to get them installed.
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See my thread a few post down on the Bridgestone RE960's.
Just like to add something to the discussion. I consider the RE960AS a great tire in the rain. It is extremely capable in wet weather and possibly the best all-season performance tire in that regard on the market right now.
I wouldn't take any one material/construction attribute of a tire or the way it's marketed as an indication that it will outperform another tire in wet weather. A little research in what goes into wet traction shows that it's more than just about whether or not the nature of the tread compound is hydrophilic, hydrophobic, or somewhere in between. Siping certainly helps with wet weather traction, but is generally avoided in 3-season/summer tires due to its effect on dry steering response. Flexibility helps to keep more of the rubber in contact with the road. Many (possibly the vast majority) 3-season/summer tires are tuned for dry steering response at higher temperatures and with a less flexible compound. You can feel the compound is stiffer in many 3-season tires. Good tread design goes a long way too. Bridgestone uses a "scalloped" tread block in the RE960AS which they claim helps improve wet weather traction. The nature of their tread compounds defies any single categorization. Are there any 3-season tires that will outperform the RE960AS in wet weather? I'd think that's likely. I'm sure hydrophilic rubber goes a long way to improving wet weather traction, but there are likely other attributes of most 3-season tires (stiffer compound and lack of siping) that detract from wet weather traction too.
You could probably come up with some killer flexible/hydrophilic/siped wet weather tire designed for low temps but not snow. However - it wouldn't neatly fit into the current tire marketing categories in North America. I certainly don't know where to find that in my 205/55R16 size with at least a V speed rating.
I have those very tires RE92a's(215/45/17's) on our family's 2005 Legacy GT wagon and find them adequate with prudent driving in wet weather and even cold wet/dry. They are very poor though in winter weather (eg slush, snow, ice) and have poor winter lateral traction.
I also had these on my WRX and I am absolutely loving the RE960's. They a world apart and considered the top tier for wet traction. They are excellent in the dry too and did very well during a Nor'Easter put down 6" snow on roads at times, turning to sleet, turning to slush, turning to pure rain on slippery snow. I recommend these wholeheartedly. These will go onto our Legacy GT when the RE92's wear down(~50% worn) or start to do poorly in the wet.
I also had these on my WRX and I am absolutely loving the RE960's. They a world apart and considered the top tier for wet traction. They are excellent in the dry too and did very well during a Nor'Easter put down 6" snow on roads at times, turning to sleet, turning to slush, turning to pure rain on slippery snow. I recommend these wholeheartedly. These will go onto our Legacy GT when the RE92's wear down(~50% worn) or start to do poorly in the wet.
I think all seasons will serve her well, but if you want snow tires, go for the Cooper Weathermaster ST2....GREAT tire.
If I had a vacation house in Lake Tahoe, of course I'd consider getting a set of true winter tires. I might even consider a "summer" tire for my normal use. As it is, one reason I go for all-seasons is that I find myself going up to the Sierras about a couple of times a year. I know the all-seasons aren't the ideal solution for winter, but sensible driving for the conditions (along with chains in the trunk) goes a long way.
"I know the all-seasons aren't the ideal solution for winter, but sensible driving for the conditions (along with chains in the trunk) goes a long way."
I agree, I just wish that others would do the same if they choose NOT to use winter tires, but still seem to think that it's their right to slam into others when road conditions get bad; 'gee, it's slippery because it's snowing out'.
I agree, I just wish that others would do the same if they choose NOT to use winter tires, but still seem to think that it's their right to slam into others when road conditions get bad; 'gee, it's slippery because it's snowing out'.
Although I never have been an employee of Les Schwab, I performed professional services for them for years, and I became very familiar with the Schwab "corporate culture." As a result of what I learned about the company, I would recommend Les Schwab to anybody. Starting with Mr. Schwab, and all the way down, the customer really does come first at Les Schwab, and the people there will do whatever it takes to make you a return, even a lifetime, customer.
Les Schwab is also one place where you can be sure that your tires after mounting will be balanced on a Hunter GSP8700 machine, which is a better mousetrap than other tire balancers.
Les Schwab does not always carry the specific tire I want for my vehicle; they will order any tire you want, but special order tires are very pricey. In most cases, the price of tires that Les Schwab does stock will be a little higher than you would pay by shopping around. The small premium in the Les Schwab price is the passed-on cost of the customer service and the unmatched warranty. For many, the service and the warranty are more important than a few dollars' savings.
The chemical composition of the tread compound dominates all other considerations in determining how well a properly sized and inflated tire will brake on wet pavement.
Would you please share the source of your research?
Siping can make a poorly designed tire brake better in the wet, but it pales in significance compared to the chemical make-up of the tread compound. The best wet-braking tires in the world are not heavily siped.
In the December 2006 issue of Car and Driver magazine, pages 124 to 126, the editors reported on their controlled test of a Goodyear three-season tire (Eagle F1 GS-D3) against a Goodyear all season tire (Eagle RS-A). (Car and Driver was using the Goodyear test facility, so presumably felt compelled to use the host's brand of tires.) From 60 mph, the GS-D3, which has no siping at all, stopped in 132 feet, while the heavily siped RS-A stopped in 155 feet, a 17 percent longer stopping distance. Twenty-three feet is approximately one and a half car lengths, and could be very significant if the edge of the washed-out bridge happens to fall within that last 23 feet of braking.
What are you claiming here? The sidewall stiffness is what contributes the most to ride harshness or suppleness, and is a factor in steering response. But the sidewall is made of a different compound than the tread. Belts underneath the tread contribute to maintaining the tread's geometric stability, and maintaining that geometry is generally considered a good thing for braking.
Far more important to the "stiffness" of the tire's interior construction, however, is the softness of the tread compound on the outside of the tire. There is a correlation (unfortunately) between short treadwear ratings and good braking, and between poor braking and long treadwear ratings. Because the main argument for all-season tires is economy (the vehicle owner in a area where it regularly snows would need a second set of winter tires -- usually mounted on a second set of wheels -- rather than running a single set of tires and wheels over the course of the year), the tire manufacturers cater to the economy-uber-alles all season tire target purchaser by making all season tires that generally have very high treadwear ratings, using tread compounds as hard as figurative diamonds. The tire companies could (and occasionally do) make all season tires with sensibly safe softer tread compounds, but that is confusing to the target market.
The tire designs with the best wet traction are all non-all-season designs. Most "summer" tires fall in that category. There_are "dry-only" tires that_do sacrifice a lot of wet traction for the last iota of dry traction, but -- contrary to your assertion -- they are a small minority of the "summer" tires on the market, not the majority.
The tread design affects resistance to hydroplaning. Except for hydroplaning, the best tread design for traction, even wet traction, is no tread design at all. There is a reason why racing cars, for which braking is very important, run racing "slicks." The reason racing cars have to change to treaded tires when it rains is that, at high speeds, hydroplaning is a serious problem. For those of us who do not race, hydroplaning is a much less serious problem. The most important contribution that tread design makes, however, is to marketing hype, as your comments illustrate.
Erm . . no. A tire engineer (such as occasional contributor here CapriRacer) could categorize the tread compound for each of the Bridgestone tires without difficulty. (There are, however, some "striped" tires, like the Goodyear ResponsEdge, that have an all season compound on one side of the tire and a three-season compound on the other side of the tire; I am not aware of any Bridgestone tires that use that technique.)
Hydrophilic compounds, used in all-season tires, tend to detract from wet traction.
If you really searching for such a tire, you may want to check out the Nokian NR series, optimized for the prevailing nonwinter conditions around Helsinki.
If you really searching for such a tire, you may want to check out the Nokian NR series, optimized for the prevailing nonwinter conditions around Helsinki.
The Nokians would be on my car right now IF they were made in my size. But alas, they are ONLY offered in Euro/import sizes (like much else)
Do you, or CapriRacer know what would be the "next best" "thermoelastic" compounded tires to meet these needs of DRY, COLD conditions??? Are there ANY summer/max performance compounds that DO NOT turn to "blocks of ice" once the thermometer drops below 45*?? If not, which ones are better than the rest at these conditions??
I think most of us here realize that slicks would not be street legal. Since street tires have to be grooved, the tread pattern does have an effect on traction in dry and wet conditions. I don't see why this is so hard to understand. It may not be the only thing, but it does have an effect.
I was referring to to inherent flexibility of the tread compound. It sounds counterintuitive, but many of the low-treadwear 3-seasons I've seen or heard of have harder rubber meant for higher temperatures. Some owners refer to how little grip they actually have on cool mornings until they're properly warmed up. Most of the all-seasons I've used have softer tread compounds. I've been in the tire shop waiting for my tires to be installed or rotated. I've looked at the displays and "fondled" the display models. In general the 3-season tires have stiffer (sometimes as hard as a golf ball) rubber at room temperature - even those with extremely low UTQG treadwear. The hardest rubber I ever noticed on a tire was on a used Firestone Firehawk Indy Car display tire. I don't know exactly what it is, but many tires with more flexible rubber have excellent durability.
I do realize that most 3-season tires will outperform comparable all-season tires, and even for the reason you state (the nature of the rubber compound). However - I'm talking about the Bridgestone RE960AS and the Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S, which I've personally used. The RE960AS has been shown to be an exceptional wet weather tire, although a decent but not spectacular dry tire. I don't know exactly what it is (materials or tread) but Bridgestone has designed an excellent wet weather tire on par with many comparably sized 3-season tires; it was certainly TR's best performing wet pavement tire in a test of several all-seasons. I suspect it would fare very well in a wet weather test conducted on the same day against 3-season tires. I remember you once said that there could always be the exception, and I'm saying this particular tire from Bridgestone is it. I thought one of the things this forum is big on is finding out gems in a sea of different products from different manufacturers. I believe the RE960AS is one of those gems.
I was referring to to inherent flexibility of the tread compound. It sounds counterintuitive, but many of the low-treadwear 3-seasons I've seen or heard of have harder rubber meant for higher temperatures. Some owners refer to how little grip they actually have on cool mornings until they're properly warmed up. Most of the all-seasons I've used have softer tread compounds. I've been in the tire shop waiting for my tires to be installed or rotated. I've looked at the displays and "fondled" the display models. In general the 3-season tires have stiffer (sometimes as hard as a golf ball) rubber at room temperature - even those with extremely low UTQG treadwear. The hardest rubber I ever noticed on a tire was on a used Firestone Firehawk Indy Car display tire. I don't know exactly what it is, but many tires with more flexible rubber have excellent durability.
I do realize that most 3-season tires will outperform comparable all-season tires, and even for the reason you state (the nature of the rubber compound). However - I'm talking about the Bridgestone RE960AS and the Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S, which I've personally used. The RE960AS has been shown to be an exceptional wet weather tire, although a decent but not spectacular dry tire. I don't know exactly what it is (materials or tread) but Bridgestone has designed an excellent wet weather tire on par with many comparably sized 3-season tires; it was certainly TR's best performing wet pavement tire in a test of several all-seasons. I suspect it would fare very well in a wet weather test conducted on the same day against 3-season tires. I remember you once said that there could always be the exception, and I'm saying this particular tire from Bridgestone is it. I thought one of the things this forum is big on is finding out gems in a sea of different products from different manufacturers. I believe the RE960AS is one of those gems.
Heh. That pinball SUV was at the corner of SW Salmon Street and 20th Avenue, about half a mile down the hill from our home. (And it was fitted with all season tires.) Fortunately, we were out of town that Tuesday of the surprise morning rush hour snowstorm, having taken a midweek "weekend" to Lincoln City (which, for those of you unfamiliar with the Pacific Northwest, is on the Orygun Coast) to watch the winter storm waves. By the time we returned to Portland, the roads through the Coast Range were bare pavement, and our "summer" tires worked just fine.
+1
i had a set of nokian wr on the last subie (prior to it being totalled). they are fabulous in the wet and pretty good in snow. dry traction is ok (certainly better than the potenzas), but there is some sidewall flex. they are predictable in more spirited driving.
the potenzas may be good for one winter, but not much past that. the re92a on my outback weren't too bad at first, but i'm up to 6000 miles now and they are getting noticeably worse.
nokian wr are fairly expensive, but they have a 50,000 mile wear rating. you can get them at tirefactory.net.
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