I have always rotated same side front to back....
Tire Rotation Pattern Theory -- Why?
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Rotation is absolutely not needed for a vehicle that is in proper shape.
Total baloney, and a way to get you in the shop. Also a great way to delaminate tires.
Now if you have bad wear patterns then you must rotate, but you really have an issue involving alignment/loading/bushing wear, and etc.
Total baloney, and a way to get you in the shop. Also a great way to delaminate tires.
Now if you have bad wear patterns then you must rotate, but you really have an issue involving alignment/loading/bushing wear, and etc.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Rotation is absolutely not needed for a vehicle that is in proper shape.
Total baloney, and a way to get you in the shop. Also a great way to delaminate tires.
Now if you have bad wear patterns then you must rotate, but you really have an issue involving alignment/loading/bushing wear, and etc.
I beg to differ. Not total baloney. My brother had the driver's front tire wear out faster than the rest on his car (car bought brand new) because he never rotated them. Had an alignment done when the new tires went on and it was still in specs.
Rotation is absolutely not needed for a vehicle that is in proper shape.
Total baloney, and a way to get you in the shop. Also a great way to delaminate tires.
Now if you have bad wear patterns then you must rotate, but you really have an issue involving alignment/loading/bushing wear, and etc.
I beg to differ. Not total baloney. My brother had the driver's front tire wear out faster than the rest on his car (car bought brand new) because he never rotated them. Had an alignment done when the new tires went on and it was still in specs.
Not necessary as often as they would like, I agree, but it is still a good idea.
Originally Posted By: Onmo'Eegusee
Not necessary as often as they would like, I agree, but it is still a good idea.
On my Ion I go by the OLM for my OIC, which has been running me around 7-7500 miles. Usually at the same time I will also rotate the tires. My next oil change might be due in the dead of winter so we'll see if it gets done. I don't have a garage to work in but my parents don't live far so I could always use theirs.
On my brother's Ion, mentioned earlier, he never rotated the tires at all. They were OE tires still on the same corners they came from the factory at. His rear tires looked perfect while his front 2 weren't so hot. The driver's side outside shoulder was almost completely bald. I figured a camber or toe problem with that kind of wear but he said the car didn't pull at all. He picked up a pair of General Tire HP's just for the fronts and had the alignment checked at the same time. It was still spot on from the factory. The only problem he had up front were his sway bar end links were clunking. Some of the potholes around here are treacherous so that probably killed the end links for him.
Both our cars came OE with Goodyear Assurance Comfortreads and I've still got mine and I've been rotating mine regularly. He didn't and had to replace the front 2.
Not necessary as often as they would like, I agree, but it is still a good idea.
On my Ion I go by the OLM for my OIC, which has been running me around 7-7500 miles. Usually at the same time I will also rotate the tires. My next oil change might be due in the dead of winter so we'll see if it gets done. I don't have a garage to work in but my parents don't live far so I could always use theirs.
On my brother's Ion, mentioned earlier, he never rotated the tires at all. They were OE tires still on the same corners they came from the factory at. His rear tires looked perfect while his front 2 weren't so hot. The driver's side outside shoulder was almost completely bald. I figured a camber or toe problem with that kind of wear but he said the car didn't pull at all. He picked up a pair of General Tire HP's just for the fronts and had the alignment checked at the same time. It was still spot on from the factory. The only problem he had up front were his sway bar end links were clunking. Some of the potholes around here are treacherous so that probably killed the end links for him.
Both our cars came OE with Goodyear Assurance Comfortreads and I've still got mine and I've been rotating mine regularly. He didn't and had to replace the front 2.
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Without rotating, front wheel drive cars would have front tires worn faster than rear tires, opposite for rear wheel drive cars.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Without rotating, front wheel drive cars would have front tires worn faster than rear tires, opposite for rear wheel drive cars.
which is why tire rotations are not total baloney.
Without rotating, front wheel drive cars would have front tires worn faster than rear tires, opposite for rear wheel drive cars.
which is why tire rotations are not total baloney.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Without rotating, front wheel drive cars would have front tires worn faster than rear tires, opposite for rear wheel drive cars.
So then just replace the two that wore out and keep on going. What's the problem?
Without rotating, front wheel drive cars would have front tires worn faster than rear tires, opposite for rear wheel drive cars.
So then just replace the two that wore out and keep on going. What's the problem?
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Without rotating, front wheel drive cars would have front tires worn faster than rear tires, opposite for rear wheel drive cars.
So then just replace the two that wore out and keep on going. What's the problem?
the problem is if you buy 50K mile tires and stick them on the front of a FWD car and never rotate them, you might get 30K miles out of them. A little bit of a waste, wouldn't you say?
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Without rotating, front wheel drive cars would have front tires worn faster than rear tires, opposite for rear wheel drive cars.
So then just replace the two that wore out and keep on going. What's the problem?
the problem is if you buy 50K mile tires and stick them on the front of a FWD car and never rotate them, you might get 30K miles out of them. A little bit of a waste, wouldn't you say?
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Without rotating, front wheel drive cars would have front tires worn faster than rear tires, opposite for rear wheel drive cars.
So then just replace the two that wore out and keep on going. What's the problem?
+1 I rotate my tires. Front to the trash, rear to front, and 2 new ones on the rear.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Without rotating, front wheel drive cars would have front tires worn faster than rear tires, opposite for rear wheel drive cars.
So then just replace the two that wore out and keep on going. What's the problem?
+1 I rotate my tires. Front to the trash, rear to front, and 2 new ones on the rear.
I have read this thread with great interest as I have a situation with my wife's 4WD Toyota 4Runner that I was made aware of last week. The vehicle has 40K on the Michelin Cross Terrains that I was told have started a slight feathering issue. The reality of the situation I have is that the tires have been rotated and balanced every 7500 miles either at a 15K interval or at a midpoint between per the Toyota Manual in a front-to-back pattern only by the local Toyota dealers.
When they told me of the slight feathering starting to occur last week, I inquired as to why they didn't do something like a X-type rotation so that the tires ended up on the other side of the vehicle to help smooth out the feathering. Their response was essentially that it wasn't an approved rotation pattern from Toyota; therefore, they weren't allowed to do it and they did yet another front to back and vice-versa.
After reading this thread, I'm more convinced that the better thing to do now is to remove the backs and swap sides with them - essentially doing what would have been a rearward cross rotation and let it go to the next rotation. After that, I think I should do another rearward cross rotation bringing the tires from the rear to the front and crossing the current fronts to the back - that would put today's rights on the left and the lefts on the right. After that, I think it would make sense to restart the front to backs. If I did that, hopefully, it would help to smooth out the feathering and prolong the tire life.
Interested in your guys' thoughts too...
When they told me of the slight feathering starting to occur last week, I inquired as to why they didn't do something like a X-type rotation so that the tires ended up on the other side of the vehicle to help smooth out the feathering. Their response was essentially that it wasn't an approved rotation pattern from Toyota; therefore, they weren't allowed to do it and they did yet another front to back and vice-versa.
After reading this thread, I'm more convinced that the better thing to do now is to remove the backs and swap sides with them - essentially doing what would have been a rearward cross rotation and let it go to the next rotation. After that, I think I should do another rearward cross rotation bringing the tires from the rear to the front and crossing the current fronts to the back - that would put today's rights on the left and the lefts on the right. After that, I think it would make sense to restart the front to backs. If I did that, hopefully, it would help to smooth out the feathering and prolong the tire life.
Interested in your guys' thoughts too...
Originally Posted By: froggy81500
the problem is if you buy 50K mile tires and stick them on the front of a FWD car and never rotate them, you might get 30K miles out of them. A little bit of a waste, wouldn't you say?
No, because if you don't rotate, the rears will last you 70k miles instead of 50k, so all in all you're still even.
It's not like you magically get more life by rotating the tires (in total). All you're doing is equalizing the wear among all of them.
the problem is if you buy 50K mile tires and stick them on the front of a FWD car and never rotate them, you might get 30K miles out of them. A little bit of a waste, wouldn't you say?
No, because if you don't rotate, the rears will last you 70k miles instead of 50k, so all in all you're still even.
It's not like you magically get more life by rotating the tires (in total). All you're doing is equalizing the wear among all of them.
Side to side is Ok if the tires aren't asymetrical.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Without rotating, front wheel drive cars would have front tires worn faster than rear tires, opposite for rear wheel drive cars.
So then just replace the two that wore out and keep on going. What's the problem?
For optimal performance and handling, you want 4 tires of the same brand and model. If 2 wore out faster and are needed to be replaced, you need to buy 2 of the same brand/model with the remaining 2. Few years later the remaining 2 wore out and you buy 2 same brand/model again ...
If you rotate, all 4 wore out evenly then you can buy the same brand/model if you are happy with it. If not, then you can buy any brand/model of your choice.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Without rotating, front wheel drive cars would have front tires worn faster than rear tires, opposite for rear wheel drive cars.
So then just replace the two that wore out and keep on going. What's the problem?
For optimal performance and handling, you want 4 tires of the same brand and model. If 2 wore out faster and are needed to be replaced, you need to buy 2 of the same brand/model with the remaining 2. Few years later the remaining 2 wore out and you buy 2 same brand/model again ...
If you rotate, all 4 wore out evenly then you can buy the same brand/model if you are happy with it. If not, then you can buy any brand/model of your choice.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
For optimal performance and handling, you want 4 tires of the same brand and model. If 2 wore out faster and are needed to be replaced, you need to buy 2 of the same brand/model with the remaining 2. Few years later the remaining 2 wore out and you buy 2 same brand/model again ...
Those few years later, all 4 would be worn out and up for replacement (the newer 2 that were installed on the drive axle and the older 2 that stayed on the non-drive axle).
For optimal performance and handling, you want 4 tires of the same brand and model. If 2 wore out faster and are needed to be replaced, you need to buy 2 of the same brand/model with the remaining 2. Few years later the remaining 2 wore out and you buy 2 same brand/model again ...
Those few years later, all 4 would be worn out and up for replacement (the newer 2 that were installed on the drive axle and the older 2 that stayed on the non-drive axle).
we have a lot of traffic circles here. rotation is clockwise when viewed from the top. the outside tyre (left front) wears a lot quicker than the right front. they call it tyre cancer.
I would say rotation is warranted. I have two mismatched tyres on the rear both with great tread. but can't rotate them to front as they are different brands.
I switched the two front tyres over.
I reckon i have 3 months left int he fronts before I replace. Will go with 4 replacements, and then follow rotation every 5000 miles religiously.
I would say rotation is warranted. I have two mismatched tyres on the rear both with great tread. but can't rotate them to front as they are different brands.
I switched the two front tyres over.
I reckon i have 3 months left int he fronts before I replace. Will go with 4 replacements, and then follow rotation every 5000 miles religiously.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
It's not like you magically get more life by rotating the tires (in total). All you're doing is equalizing the wear among all of them.
See, someone gets it!
Unless you have a NEED to rotate, there is no benefit.
Move a tire from the front to the rear on FWD adds life. Do the same on RWD and it may shorten life.
But it is absolutely not going to magically gain new life by being in a different spot unless the car needs help anyway. Why not correct the problem so your tire wears properly?
It's not like you magically get more life by rotating the tires (in total). All you're doing is equalizing the wear among all of them.
See, someone gets it!
Unless you have a NEED to rotate, there is no benefit.
Move a tire from the front to the rear on FWD adds life. Do the same on RWD and it may shorten life.
But it is absolutely not going to magically gain new life by being in a different spot unless the car needs help anyway. Why not correct the problem so your tire wears properly?
There are 2 reasons to regularly rotate your tires:
1) To prevent irregular wear from becoming so bad the tire has to be removed before it is worn out.
Each position on a vehicle will wear a tire in a certain way. Steer tires tend to wear the shoulders, while drive positions tend to wear the center. Part of what also comes along is a tendency to develop irregular wear - and this causes vibrations and noise. Clearly misalignment - particularly toe - will cause this irregular wear to appear sooner, but toe is also present every time you make a turn. You have to develop a slip angle to get the mass of the vehicle moving in a different direction. Rotating the tires regularly forces the tire to wear in different patterns. The result is more even wear
2) Rotating tires allows the entire tread to be used, so you get more life.
Because each position on a vehicle has a different wear pattern, there will be parts of the tread that wear more slowly than others. When a tire is put in a new position, the tire wears the high points of the tread more rapidly. Another way to look at it, is that the low spots (the parts that used to be wearing rapidly) are now wearing more slowly. The net effect is more life.
1) To prevent irregular wear from becoming so bad the tire has to be removed before it is worn out.
Each position on a vehicle will wear a tire in a certain way. Steer tires tend to wear the shoulders, while drive positions tend to wear the center. Part of what also comes along is a tendency to develop irregular wear - and this causes vibrations and noise. Clearly misalignment - particularly toe - will cause this irregular wear to appear sooner, but toe is also present every time you make a turn. You have to develop a slip angle to get the mass of the vehicle moving in a different direction. Rotating the tires regularly forces the tire to wear in different patterns. The result is more even wear
2) Rotating tires allows the entire tread to be used, so you get more life.
Because each position on a vehicle has a different wear pattern, there will be parts of the tread that wear more slowly than others. When a tire is put in a new position, the tire wears the high points of the tread more rapidly. Another way to look at it, is that the low spots (the parts that used to be wearing rapidly) are now wearing more slowly. The net effect is more life.
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Originally Posted By: labman
Side to side is Ok if the tires aren't asymetrical.
Side-to-side is okay if the tires are asymmetrical. The key is if the tires are directional or not. In that case, you would not be able to rotate the tires side-to-side unless you also dismounted them from the wheels and swapped wheels (which I would not do).
Side to side is Ok if the tires aren't asymetrical.
Side-to-side is okay if the tires are asymmetrical. The key is if the tires are directional or not. In that case, you would not be able to rotate the tires side-to-side unless you also dismounted them from the wheels and swapped wheels (which I would not do).
Originally Posted By: burch2217
When they told me of the slight feathering starting to occur last week, I inquired as to why they didn't do something like a X-type rotation so that the tires ended up on the other side of the vehicle to help smooth out the feathering. Their response was essentially that it wasn't an approved rotation pattern from Toyota; therefore, they weren't allowed to do it and they did yet another front to back and vice-versa.
My '07 Corolla owner's manual also indicates front-to-back only, no side-to-side. I don't know why. I do the typical FWD cross rotation pattern on it.
When they told me of the slight feathering starting to occur last week, I inquired as to why they didn't do something like a X-type rotation so that the tires ended up on the other side of the vehicle to help smooth out the feathering. Their response was essentially that it wasn't an approved rotation pattern from Toyota; therefore, they weren't allowed to do it and they did yet another front to back and vice-versa.
My '07 Corolla owner's manual also indicates front-to-back only, no side-to-side. I don't know why. I do the typical FWD cross rotation pattern on it.
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