Time to replace my Corolla, what should I get?

[grampi]

JHZR2

Maybe I need to drive the Yaris again. Has the Yaris auto always been a 4 speed? The only Yaris' I've driven were all the first model year. I liked the manual, but like I said earlier, the auto always seemed to be over-revving or bogging and for some reason, I thought the one I drove was only a 3 speed. I've driven both Civics (manual and auto) and as much as I liked the manual (because I'm a manual kind of guy), I loved the auto. I also noticed it shifted at lot, but the up side to this is that it kept the engine at just the right RPM. Not too high, and not too low.

As far as utility goes there's no comparison. The Yaris HB was much more versitile with it's fold flat rear seats and the hatch. It's more like a microvan than a car really. I really need cruise control and I don't think it was available on the HB until just this year. I suppose I could always add an aftermarket unit. Power stuff isn't a necessity, in fact I absolutely hate power windows because they always stop working. I do like power locks though and unfortunately you can never get one without the other.

 

[grampi]

I also hear a lot of mixed reviews on the fuel economy of the Yaris. Some get in excess of 40 highway, and some barely break into the 30's. Almost all the people who have Civics claim they get over 40 MPG.

 

[Dave Hess]

The Civic can easily get 40 MPG on the highway......but its how you drive it. Our 2007 Civic EX (5 speed) gets 41-42 MPG tank after tank.

There is a guy from Utah that gets 45-46 MPH from his 5 speed Corolla.

If you drive with a conscience effort in trying to get MAX gas mileage, you will always beat the maufacturer's fuel economy numbers.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear


IMO the quality of Corolla starts going downhill since about 2002,


I see this statement on the Corollas posted from time to time, but with no examples of something going wrong to back it up. Please detail what on Corollas goes downhill. The 1ZZ-FE has been in the Corollas since 1998 until now.

 

[VK56VD]

Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: PandaBear


IMO the quality of Corolla starts going downhill since about 2002,


I see this statement on the Corollas posted from time to time, but with no examples of something going wrong to back it up. Please detail what on Corollas goes downhill. The 1ZZ-FE has been in the Corollas since 1998 until now.


I think what people are trying to say is that statistically, owners are having more problems in general with the new Corolla's than the older ones.

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: grampi
I also hear a lot of mixed reviews on the fuel economy of the Yaris. Some get in excess of 40 highway, and some barely break into the 30's. Almost all the people who have Civics claim they get over 40 MPG.



I doubt there's that much difference. Most of the people who say they're getting over 40 in either car are, IMO, probably either using hypermiling strategies or talking about primarily distance freeway driving. In my 07 Civic I get 35 on my regular commute. I've gotten 43 or so on a 400 mile freeway round trip at 60 mph or so. I've also managed to get as low as 33 on a long flat highway trip by flogging the car.

 

[Max_Wander]

The Honda engine is more difficult to acheive bad fuel economy, because it's consumption is not so much dependant on throttle position as it is RPM. The emissions oriented iVTEC hard limits the engine's output at all ranges below a certain RPM by switching between 12 valves and 16 valves. Most regular driving is done with only one intake valve opening, which makes low fuel consumption more disciplined and tolerant of erratic throttle control.

 

[John K]

I'm no fan of GM cars but I worked with a guy that had a Cavalier wagon. It looked like a garbage can, but he drove it 300,000 miles and then he replaced the engine and kept on driving. Don't know how far he got with it. It seemed to attract deer though, I think he hit at least 6 with it......

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: Max_Wander
The Honda engine is more difficult to acheive bad fuel economy, because it's consumption is not so much dependant on throttle position as it is RPM. The emissions oriented iVTEC hard limits the engine's output at all ranges below a certain RPM by switching between 12 valves and 16 valves. Most regular driving is done with only one intake valve opening, which makes low fuel consumption more disciplined and tolerant of erratic throttle control.


The 8th gen Civic engine's iVTEC system does not actually use the 12/16 valve mode that some previous VTEC systems have (although the current Fit engine may work that way). Instead it puts the engine into an Atkinson cycle mode, retarding intake valve closure until the piston has already begun its upstroke, thus forcing out some of the air/fuel mixture and burning less per power stroke. Because of this change in air/fuel charge, the throttle can be held further open to reduce pumping losses without allowing too much air into the engine and causing lean combustion.

The system is controlled both by throttle position/engine load as well as engine speed. It may be that the Honda engine lends itself more easily towards better FE (I don't know) but if so then it's not because of a 12/16 valve VTEC implementation.

 

[Max_Wander]

Originally Posted By: rationull
it puts the engine into an Atkinson cycle mode


Ah okay, so they have moved to the Atkinson cycle, that's good to know. The cam phasing for the Atkinson cycle can then be the replacement for that throttle independant 'mechanical consumption limiter' I was getting at earlier. Many new cars seem to be adopting this type of cam phasing now.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
The Civic can easily get 40 MPG on the highway......but its how you drive it. Our 2007 Civic EX (5 speed) gets 41-42 MPG tank after tank.

There is a guy from Utah that gets 45-46 MPH from his 5 speed Corolla.

If you drive with a conscience effort in trying to get MAX gas mileage, you will always beat the maufacturer's fuel economy numbers.


I've actually gotten as high as 41 with my '99, and that wasn't hypermiling, just straight highway driving. I typically average about 38.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Spartuss
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: PandaBear


IMO the quality of Corolla starts going downhill since about 2002,


I see this statement on the Corollas posted from time to time, but with no examples of something going wrong to back it up. Please detail what on Corollas goes downhill. The 1ZZ-FE has been in the Corollas since 1998 until now.


I think what people are trying to say is that statistically, owners are having more problems in general with the new Corolla's than the older ones.


I've heard of no such issues. I just can't deal with the less leg room up front of the newer models.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
The Civic can easily get 40 MPG on the highway......but its how you drive it. Our 2007 Civic EX (5 speed) gets 41-42 MPG tank after tank.

There is a guy from Utah that gets 45-46 MPH from his 5 speed Corolla.

If you drive with a conscience effort in trying to get MAX gas mileage, you will always beat the maufacturer's fuel economy numbers.


I've actually gotten as high as 41 with my '99, and that wasn't hypermiling, just straight highway driving. I typically average about 38.


I get nearly 40 in my 08 with the automatic. If I do 100% highway in my Corolla at 65 mph and am smart about it, I can get above 40.

 

[The_Jeff]

Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: PandaBear


IMO the quality of Corolla starts going downhill since about 2002,


I see this statement on the Corollas posted from time to time, but with no examples of something going wrong to back it up. Please detail what on Corollas goes downhill. The 1ZZ-FE has been in the Corollas since 1998 until now.


This doesn't exactly fit your criteria but a coworker's 03 vibe with 100k highway has a nuisance CEL for an EVAP leak, the steering pulls to the right then suddenly to the left, and no alignment guys can figure it out, the RF brake drags... caliper is good, pads fit too tight it seems.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
The Civic can easily get 40 MPG on the highway......but its how you drive it. Our 2007 Civic EX (5 speed) gets 41-42 MPG tank after tank.

There is a guy from Utah that gets 45-46 MPH from his 5 speed Corolla.

If you drive with a conscience effort in trying to get MAX gas mileage, you will always beat the maufacturer's fuel economy numbers.


I've actually gotten as high as 41 with my '99, and that wasn't hypermiling, just straight highway driving. I typically average about 38.


I get nearly 40 in my 08 with the automatic. If I do 100% highway in my Corolla at 65 mph and am smart about it, I can get above 40.


Our office secretary has an '03 Corolla with a manual and she said she's gotten as high as 43 with her's. That's preety darn good!

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: PandaBear


IMO the quality of Corolla starts going downhill since about 2002,


I see this statement on the Corollas posted from time to time, but with no examples of something going wrong to back it up. Please detail what on Corollas goes downhill. The 1ZZ-FE has been in the Corollas since 1998 until now.


This doesn't exactly fit your criteria but a coworker's 03 vibe with 100k highway has a nuisance CEL for an EVAP leak, the steering pulls to the right then suddenly to the left, and no alignment guys can figure it out, the RF brake drags... caliper is good, pads fit too tight it seems.


Isn't the Vibe a Pontiac? I know someone's going to say the Vibe and the Matrix are built on the same assembly line, but they're not the same, just like the Corolla and the Prism aren't the same. Somehow the non-real Toyota version of supposedly the same car always ends up being cheapened and is never as good as the Toyota version.

 

[bretfraz]

It really sounds like you need to start hitting some dealers and driving some cars. You need to get more familiar with what's out there and what works for you. There's a lot of stuff out there that might surprise you and some stuff that you probably won't like once you've driven it.

There's no point in asking people on the internet what car you should buy when you haven't experienced the vast majority of them. It's the weekend, make a goal to drive at least 5 cars you've never driven before but might be interested in. Come back here on Monday and report your findings.

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: Max_Wander
The cam phasing for the Atkinson cycle can then be the replacement for that throttle independant 'mechanical consumption limiter' I was getting at earlier.


Right, understood. Supposedly, the engine load/throttle position does play into the ECU's decision of whether to be in the FE mode or not. So, if you're cruising at 2800 RPM and light throttle in Atkinson mode, and then give it some gas, it'll switch back to "High Output" mode for more pep. I'm not sure how sensitive it is, but I suspect it's a little too sensitive.. I'm still looking for a way to determine what VTEC mode the engine is in via the OBD2 port but haven't found a way yet.

 

[OVERKILL]

Couldn't you use a pressure switch on the oil feed rail that activates the "VTEC" to run a small LED or something to tell you when it's engaged or not?

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Couldn't you use a pressure switch on the oil feed rail that activates the "VTEC" to run a small LED or something to tell you when it's engaged or not?


I'm pretty sure it's easier than that, actually. I think you can tap into the wire that goes from the ECU to the vtec solenoid and just run that to an LED somehow. It's all more trouble than just pulling it over the OBD2 port, though, and I haven't lost all hope of that yet.