Time saved by not going to gas stations in non road trip scenarios: Rivian vs CX-9

[Brons2]

Saw a video on the YouTubes that reminded me of something I didn't normally think about when it comes to the ICE vs EV debate.

Everyone talks about the amount of time it takes to DCFC on a long trip. But do we really include the time spent stopping for gas in our "around town" life? This guy attempts to put a number to it:

(skip to about the 32 minute mark if you just want the numbers)

3.77 hours per year spent fueling on his commute. 18.89 hours over 5 years. Ok, so it takes longer on road trips, but, just how many long road trips does the average American family take in a year? I would argue that the time loss fueling around town would be equivalent to at least one 1000+ mile road trip of EV charging stops.

This can be easily quantified on ABRP - https://www.abetterrouteplanner.com/
For example a 1075 mile road trip from an undisclosed location in Central Texas to New Orleans and back in my relatively inefficient Lightning would take 3 hours and 23 minutes of charging total for the whole trip.

Point being that, on a macro scale, I haven't lost any time having an EV if that's the only road trip I'm taking this year.

 

[JoelB]

If my math is correct there are 43,800 hours in 5 years. 18 hours is insignificant. The guy probably wasted that much time thinking about an executing this video.

 

[Trav]

The guy is mind friggin himself big time. Putting gas/diesel in any one of cars takes about 5 min for 500-700 miles. Around me are at least 5 gas stations within 1 to 2 min away. Starting with a full tank to Florida I need one 5 min stop for 15 gallons.

 

[IndyIan]

TBH I find plugging my car in, in the winter kind of annoying, so I don't bother. I would have to rethink my parking at home to get an EV plug easy to use. But given that, it would be probably be a minute on average to do the EV each day at home, at its about 5 minutes to fill up the car once a week, so I think the times are equal enough between gas and EV home charging.
On an actual vacation road trip, I don't think I'd mind charging on the road, go for a short walk in a new town, why not. For weekend sports trips, especially in the winter where there are few more deadlines, an EV would be a bit of PITA, and waiting 30 minutes to charge a couple times would be a bit annoying.
I think if you can afford a Rivian, EV work pretty good, as you can afford the $3-400 a night place with chargers everywhere you go.

 

[macarose]

It's an interesting question, but also one of the most navel gazing questions I can imagine too.

A gas version of the CX-9 has range of 390 city and 507 highway. If we make it a road trip where he fuels every 400 miles he'll have at most six visits to the pump. That's about 25 minutes. If you factor in the need to go to the bathroom when you're already there the real time wasted is only likely about 20 minutes.

The Rivian isn't roadtrip friendly. Maybe three hours of charging.

However if you get a flight from Dallas or Houston to New Orleans, you'll save 2,000 miles of driving which equates to about four days on the road each way.

So flying wins. Not too surprising for those of us who have flown to Texas from at least a thousand miles away.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Generalizing is one thing but individual use case is another. Sure, a gas vehicle may have longer or much longer range, but how often do you really need that? If you regularly drive over 200 miles one way, ICE may be a better vehicle, especially one with decent range.
If I am going over 200 miles, I am jumping on a jet.

My fuel cost for the EV is so low as compared to the GS and Tundra. $50 to $80 bucks on gas down the drain, and the time wasted going to, waiting in line, etc, is a drag. And the bi-annual smog test? Sheesh. Hate it.

The rare times I Supercharge, it is at a location with a Starbucks or whatever. So I would be stopped anyways. I've sat in my EV at a Supercharger exactly once and that's because I didn't want to eat, etc. I did catch up on emails...

In Silicon Valley, the average miles driven per day is under 15. I believe the national average is about 40 miles per day. You don't need that much gas or hWh on average.
It all depends on your use case and, of course, what you want. In my case, charging at home (solar baby!) beats the snot outta gas stations by a country mile. I doubt I will ever buy another ICE vehicle unless it is a pickup.

Here's my EV concern: Say I just came home from 275 mile trip so my remaining range is low. If I had an emergency and needed to drive 50 miles or whatever, I might be in trouble.

 

[demarpaint]

The guy is mind friggin himself big time. Putting gas/diesel in any one of cars takes about 5 min for 500-700 miles. Around me are at least 5 gas stations within 1 to 2 min away. Starting with a full tank to Florida I need one 5 min stop for 15 gallons.

Since my wife retired 5 minutes gets us about a month worth of driving around in her Jeep. Maybe now that the summer is here I'll gas it up every two weeks, we'll be driving more. I gassed up this morning on the way to the bank, less than 5 minutes done and back on the road. The last time I gassed it up was a little less than a month ago.

 

[Torrid]

I didn't watch the video, but the thought process makes sense to me. I did cut out two gasoline stops a week by going EV. I've stopped to public charge about 5 times so far. Not something I commonly do, but I'll take the trade off when I need to take a trip.

 

[supton]

Didn't watch. Pretty sure that getting 10 gallons of gas for my small car takes more than 5 minutes, as I have to drive out of my way (but a minor minute or whatever), and then hope I don't have to wait in line (rare but it happens). And hope I don't get a slow pump (not as rare as I'd like). And wait for the receipt printer, and write it down.

Due to limited range on my car it's at least once/wk to get gas. I'm not buying an EV any time soon but I bet I'd find filling up at home to be a pleasant 15 minute savings per week.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Didn't watch. Pretty sure that getting 10 gallons of gas for my small car takes more than 5 minutes, as I have to drive out of my way (but a minor minute or whatever), and then hope I don't have to wait in line (rare but it happens). And hope I don't get a slow pump (not as rare as I'd like). And wait for the receipt printer, and write it down.

Due to limited range on my car it's at least once/wk to get gas. I'm not buying an EV any time soon but I bet I'd find filling up at home to be a pleasant 15 minute savings per week.

Guess what? Just about every EV owner says that.
The gal across the street charges her Bolt for free while at work; I don't think she ever charges at home and if she does, it is with a slow-poke 110V circuit.

 

[UncleDave]

Saw a video on the YouTubes that reminded me of something I didn't normally think about when it comes to the ICE vs EV debate.

Everyone talks about the amount of time it takes to DCFC on a long trip. But do we really include the time spent stopping for gas in our "around town" life? This guy attempts to put a number to it:

(skip to about the 32 minute mark if you just want the numbers)

3.77 hours per year spent fueling on his commute. 18.89 hours over 5 years. Ok, so it takes longer on road trips, but, just how many long road trips does the average American family take in a year? I would argue that the time loss fueling around town would be equivalent to at least one 1000+ mile road trip of EV charging stops.

This can be easily quantified on ABRP - https://www.abetterrouteplanner.com/
For example a 1075 mile road trip from an undisclosed location in Central Texas to New Orleans and back in my relatively inefficient Lightning would take 3 hours and 23 minutes of charging total for the whole trip.

Point being that, on a macro scale, I haven't lost any time having an EV if that's the only road trip I'm taking this year.

I've been making this point for half a decade.

EV detractors rarely do all the math, and often fantasize about the math they do undertake.
The 3 biggest fantasies being " every fuel stop is 5 minutes" "I only ever stop to fuel on my way to and from my house" "I never make a dedicated fuel trip"

The other two biggies is amnesia about road trip fill ups before and after each road trip.
On a road trip for example - (providing you can charge at home) the EV starts every outbound trip with a full charge - and does not need a full up charge once you arrive back at home. These two stops are the most commonly ignored ones when doing trip math.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I had no idea how convenient charging at home would be. It has to be experienced to be appreciated. Sounds funny, but that's my experience. It's not what I thought; you learn. 5 minutes to fill up? Try 20 seconds... The local Costco gas pumps are not nearly as handy as my garage...

 

[IndyIan]

I've been making this point for half a decade.

EV detractors rarely do all the math, and often fantasize about the math they do undertake.
The 3 biggest fantasies being " every fuel stop is 5 minutes" "I only ever stop to fuel on my way to and from my house" "I never make a dedicated fuel trip"

The other two biggies is amnesia about road trip fill ups before and after each road trip.
On a road trip for example - (providing you can charge at home) the EV starts every outbound trip with a full charge - and does not need a full up charge once you arrive back at home. These two stops are the most commonly ignored ones when doing trip math.

I won't say I never break those rules, but its pretty rare, as gas stations are common enough on my regular routes.
I think EV's are great in areas with mild climates, and lots of fast chargers.
My area isn't that, and on a weekend trip, I don't usually stay at hotels with a charger, which are usually $50-100/night more. And most baseball diamonds don't have a charger, or ski hills that do have 3 -4 for 50+ EV's in the lot, which means I might never get a charge there during the day, and then I've got to shuffle in a 1-2 hr charging time on a level 2 charger, maybe every day if its -20 out... Maybe in a couple years the infrastructure will be here to make it work for me? But its not here yet.

I guess what gas gets you is more freedom in your schedule and independence in your travel routes and times. And even running out is not much of a issue usually. CAA guy can bring a couple gallons, or just knock on the nearest house door, that has a lawn and ask to buy some. A gallon gets you 25-30 miles to a station.

I'm not opposed to PHEV though, they would work well for us.

 

[UncleDave]

I won't say I never break those rules, but its pretty rare, as gas stations are common enough on my regular routes.
I think EV's are great in areas with mild climates, and lots of fast chargers.
My area isn't that, and on a weekend trip, I don't usually stay at hotels with a charger, which are usually $50-100/night more. And most baseball diamonds don't have a charger, or ski hills that do have 3 -4 for 50+ EV's in the lot, which means I might never get a charge there during the day, and then I've got to shuffle in a 1-2 hr charging time on a level 2 charger, maybe every day if its -20 out... Maybe in a couple years the infrastructure will be here to make it work for me? But its not here yet.

I guess what gas gets you is more freedom in your schedule and independence in your travel routes and times. And even running out is not much of a issue usually. CAA guy can bring a couple gallons, or just knock on the nearest house door, that has a lawn and ask to buy some. A gallon gets you 25-30 miles to a station.

I'm not opposed to PHEV though, they would work well for us.

I've never taken the position an EV is right for everyone and every use case.

There are many scenarios including my own where they are not right, like the fact that I tow long ranges with 2 vehicles.

What does happen all the time is poeple dont understand or pay attention to their habits today, nor do they understand what travel time are actually like in a modern EV's, and they often completely gloss over multiple fuel stops they would otherwise have to make that close the delta between the two modes of transportation.

The two big ones most often simply left out are the top up before they leave on a road trip, and the fill up after they arrive back home.
In each of these cases as long as you can charge at home the EV starts totally "full" and can arrive "empty" yet be ready to go the next day.

Phev's are great. I really liked the second Gen volt.

 

[CKN]

Another useless youtube video.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I won't say I never break those rules, but its pretty rare, as gas stations are common enough on my regular routes.
I think EV's are great in areas with mild climates, and lots of fast chargers.
My area isn't that, and on a weekend trip, I don't usually stay at hotels with a charger, which are usually $50-100/night more. And most baseball diamonds don't have a charger, or ski hills that do have 3 -4 for 50+ EV's in the lot, which means I might never get a charge there during the day, and then I've got to shuffle in a 1-2 hr charging time on a level 2 charger, maybe every day if its -20 out... Maybe in a couple years the infrastructure will be here to make it work for me? But its not here yet.

I guess what gas gets you is more freedom in your schedule and independence in your travel routes and times. And even running out is not much of a issue usually. CAA guy can bring a couple gallons, or just knock on the nearest house door, that has a lawn and ask to buy some. A gallon gets you 25-30 miles to a station.

I'm not opposed to PHEV though, they would work well for us.

Question for you: How often do you drive more than 250 miles in one day?
Of course I am assuming you have adequate charging capability at home...

Sure, some ICE vehicles can hit 400 miles on a tank, but if you don't regularly use that, it becomes less of a meaningful data point.

I drove about 200 miles today. Charged to 90% last night instead of my usual 75%. Got home with about 50 miles, or whatever. Zero gas station time or cost involved.

 

[UncleDave]

Another useless youtube video.

I can see how one would feel that way.
Id say not so much useless as needlessly long.
At least this guys does his math, so many dont even do that.

 

[Ws6]

I own both ev and gas. The gas car needs far more time at the dealership, as well. It's definitely less convenient except on a road trip, and then only some road trips. Many 500+ mi trips are equal between i e and ev in my timed experience. It's when you go on uncharted trips where maybe the charger is broken or something that the gasser has any value.

 

[Trav]

Since my wife retired 5 minutes gets us about a month worth of driving around in her Jeep. Maybe now that the summer is here I'll gas it up every two weeks, we'll be driving more. I gassed up this morning on the way to the bank, less than 5 minutes done and back on the road. The last time I gassed it up was a little less than a month ago.

I filled up the diesel VW this morning, less than 5 min for 12 gal of diesel that cost $40, the last time was about a month ago.
Moving cars around to get to a charger at home would be more trouble.

 

[Torrid]

I filled up the diesel VW this morning, less than 5 min for 12 gal of diesel that cost $40, the last time was about a month ago.
Moving cars around to get to a charger at home would be more trouble.

My charger is long enough to reach both cars. Dead to full costs me $10.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I'd rather save time and money.