Time for a new Generator... Wisdom desired!

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Originally Posted by dakota99
For what it's worth I have the Champion open frame inverter model (3500 / 4000) and while it works wonderfully 99% of the time, it struggles with my refrigerator. I have no idea why, it starts the freezer just fine, furnace fine and A/C in eco mode but when the fridge kicks on the kitchen lights dim and the voltage drops momentarily to around 100 - 105 volts. Everything seems fine but the dish hopper box and tv's shut down with the low voltage. That and I just don't like it dropping that low. Turning eco mode off everything runs just fine. I feel like that defeats the purpose of the whole thing though. Something to keep in mind.

I wish they made plug in inline capacitors similar to hard start caps for a/c's, that would fix the problem. Fridge must use a ton of power on startup. It's a newer kenmore elite and so is the freezer so I don't know.
That does sound strange. My Predator 3500 Inveter runs two refrigerators, a chest freezer and the diswasher in heated dry mode, all simultaneously and in the ECO mode. Have you tried running just that refrigerator alone in ECO mode to see if you get the same result?
 
Yeah even with the fridge hooked up alone (well with the kitchen lights too which is about 50 watts of led) it does it. I've tried the fridge, furnace and freezer all separately in eco and when the freezer and furnace kick on you can't even tell they came on, but the fridge hits hard for some reason. The 8000 btu window a/c is the same, it can turn on in eco mode and you can't even tell its on except the usual increase in rpm slightly.

I have two of these units and they both act the same way. The fridge sticker says 7.7 amps but i'm assuming that's under defrost because running it only uses 125 watts. I noticed too when it kicks on connected to utility power the kitchen lights dim just enough to notice it for a split second as well so it evidently has a hard starting wattage. That or something is wrong with it. This is in a new house with all new wiring.
 
Originally Posted by dakota99
I have two of these units and they both act the same way. The fridge sticker says 7.7 amps but i'm assuming that's under defrost because running it only uses 125 watts. I noticed too when it kicks on connected to utility power the kitchen lights dim just enough to notice it for a split second as well so it evidently has a hard starting wattage. That or something is wrong with it. This is in a new house with all new wiring.
Does the fridge have a LRA (locked rotor amperage) rating on the nameplate?
 
I have a newer fridge that uses 125 watts when it is running. When I checked it with my peak hold amp meter it briefly used 19.7 amps at startup! When I checked the 30 year old fridge in the garage it only used 8.9 amps at startup and 150 watts when it is running. Neither fridge has the LRA listed on it.
 
Originally Posted by dakota99
Yeah even with the fridge hooked up alone (well with the kitchen lights too which is about 50 watts of led) it does it. I've tried the fridge, furnace and freezer all separately in eco and when the freezer and furnace kick on you can't even tell they came on, but the fridge hits hard for some reason. The 8000 btu window a/c is the same, it can turn on in eco mode and you can't even tell its on except the usual increase in rpm slightly.
Originally Posted by wag123
I have a newer fridge that uses 125 watts when it is running. When I checked it with my peak hold amp meter it briefly used 19.7 amps at startup! When I checked the 30 year old fridge in the garage it only used 8.9 amps at startup and 150 watts when it is running. Neither fridge has the LRA listed on it.
It really sounds like the refrigerator is the problem as opposed to the generator, which I would consider to be a good thing. Of the two refrigerators I run, one dates to the late 90's and the other to 2012. Both are Kenmore. You both leave me scratching my head and wondering why a newer refrigerator would have a larger startup load.
 
Yeah I agree it's the fridge not the generator. They're awesome little gens and if the OP was looking for an inverter that's reasonable in price they're great. It can handle about a 1500 watt hit from low eco idle and maintain voltage just fine. Any more than that and it's pushing it. I'm thinking the fridge is starting around 2000 - 2500 watts on startup. No LRA reading on the sticker.

I originally had a champion 7000 / 9000 watt 3600 rpm gen and that thing was crazy loud. The little 3500 watt inverter runs back through a transfer switch and powers the needed circuits just fine. Much quieter and way better on gas too. I started out way too big (like a lot of people do) and realized for any amount of extended time that wasn't going to work.
 
Originally Posted by Astro_Guy
Originally Posted by dakota99
Yeah even with the fridge hooked up alone (well with the kitchen lights too which is about 50 watts of led) it does it. I've tried the fridge, furnace and freezer all separately in eco and when the freezer and furnace kick on you can't even tell they came on, but the fridge hits hard for some reason. The 8000 btu window a/c is the same, it can turn on in eco mode and you can't even tell its on except the usual increase in rpm slightly.
Originally Posted by wag123
I have a newer fridge that uses 125 watts when it is running. When I checked it with my peak hold amp meter it briefly used 19.7 amps at startup! When I checked the 30 year old fridge in the garage it only used 8.9 amps at startup and 150 watts when it is running. Neither fridge has the LRA listed on it.
It really sounds like the refrigerator is the problem as opposed to the generator, which I would consider to be a good thing. Of the two refrigerators I run, one dates to the late 90's and the other to 2012. Both are Kenmore. You both leave me scratching my head and wondering why a newer refrigerator would have a larger startup load.
I was puzzled by this myself. My research lead me to a off-grid solar energy board where the discussion centered on this topic. What I learned was that the newer more "efficient" refrigerator compressors are designed differently and the start-up current requirements are much higher. This is a bigger problem with battery powered Inverters because the surge current rating the Inverters list is only for a small fraction of a second, not nearly long enough to start a newer refrigerator or freezer compressor. The answer is that the running watt output must be high enough to cover the start-up surge requirement. I have to assume that this would likely apply to an Inverter Generator as well.
 
Originally Posted by wag123
I was puzzled by this myself. My research lead me to a off-grid solar energy board where the discussion centered on this topic. What I learned was that the newer more "efficient" refrigerator compressors are designed differently and the start-up current requirements are much higher. This is a bigger problem with battery powered Inverters because the surge current rating the Inverters list is only for a small fraction of a second, not nearly long enough to start a newer refrigerator or freezer compressor. The answer is that the running watt output must be high enough to cover the start-up surge requirement. I have to assume that this would likely apply to an Inverter Generator as well.
Interesting. Could you post a link?

I've got a 3 ton Carrier Infinity central A/C unit with the traditional reciprocating compressor, and a 2 ton Rheem heat pump with a scroll compressor. I believe the nameplate LRAs are 82 vs. 35. Obviously 35 is less than 2/3 of 82, so the more modern HVAC stuff is easier to start. Refrigerators used to use simple reciprocating compressors. I am curious to know what sort of compressors are going into the latest generation of refrigerators.
 
Originally Posted by Astro_Guy
Originally Posted by wag123
I was puzzled by this myself. My research lead me to a off-grid solar energy board where the discussion centered on this topic. What I learned was that the newer more "efficient" refrigerator compressors are designed differently and the start-up current requirements are much higher. This is a bigger problem with battery powered Inverters because the surge current rating the Inverters list is only for a small fraction of a second, not nearly long enough to start a newer refrigerator or freezer compressor. The answer is that the running watt output must be high enough to cover the start-up surge requirement. I have to assume that this would likely apply to an Inverter Generator as well.
Interesting. Could you post a link?
Refrigerators used to use simple reciprocating compressors. I am curious to know what sort of compressors are going into the latest generation of refrigerators.
I don't remember what board I was on. That was like 3 years ago. If memory serves, I don't think that anyone knew what specifically was different about the newer refrigerator/freezer compressors that accounted for the difference in start-up current draw. But, I can confirm that there is a difference.
 
Add in to this the kits one can add to compressors now.... is it called "soft start," or something like that? Some sort of addition that curbs starting jolt, and for some are an optional add-on. ?? anyone recall what this is?
 
Originally Posted by meep
Add in to this the kits one can add to compressors now.... is it called "soft start," or something like that? Some sort of addition that curbs starting jolt, and for some are an optional add-on. ?? anyone recall what this is?
There are actually two different approaches to helping a compressor start with a lower start-up current draw, hard start kits, and soft start kits.
A hard start kit is basically a large auxiliary starting capacitor combined with a relay. They are popular with RVers for rooftop A/C units to help them start with a smaller generator, they are inexpensive. These are meant to be used on large compressors. I am not aware of anyone that is using a hard start kit on a refrigerator compressor, so I can't comment on whether or not it will work on a refrigerator compressor.
A soft start kit works differently, at start-up it slowly ramps up the voltage to the compressor over a short timed interval (usually adjustable), they are much more expensive.
 
FWIW I have a Champion 3500w RV generator that is over ten years old. It starts and runs like a peach. I've never EVER had any issue with it running a reasonable load. For cold weather back up power ANY generator is better than no generator. The Champion is quiet, reliable, fuel efficient, and cheap. The Harbor Freight models are quite good too. Some folks figure out the wattage of everything in their house running at once including starting wattage for refrigerators and multiply that by 1.5. Then double it while telling you how stupid you are for not getting a 100kW monster. Pfft. I don't need a generator the size of a shipping container in my back yard. I don't want to spend upwards of $10K for "backup power". A couple of kerosene hurricane lamps put out as much heat as an 1800W space heater (or more). Prioritize your needs in a power outage. I have LED bulbs throughout my house that draw zilch. TVs are all LED backlit. I use kerosene for heat. I have sever 1gal milk jugs full of water frozen in my freezer (it'll stay froze for a loooonnng time). On the rare occasion power goes out in my neck of the woods I hunker down and watch movies until it comes back on.

If you want the best get something with "Honda" printed on it somewhere. Period. Can't argue Honda's track record.
If you want darn near as good go get a Champion or Harbor Freight model in the size of your choice.
 
Originally Posted by georgemiller
You can get your Honda Generator for $ 93.00 but you must hurry they are having a flash sale.

https://taminr.com/gon/

Is it legit? Have you bought from there? I take it this is spam or your account got hacked?
 
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