Thoughts on the Cadillac ATS 2.0 Standard AWD?
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Originally Posted By: PhillyJoe
The ATS is on the plus side of $50k
ATS 2.0T Manual Standard starts at $36K. The 2.5 non-turbo auto starts at $34K.
The ATS is on the plus side of $50k
ATS 2.0T Manual Standard starts at $36K. The 2.5 non-turbo auto starts at $34K.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
LPlus I'd rather have a RWD V8 in a sedan that size. 4 bangers should be left for Ford Focus,etc.
Sure, I'd rather have a BMW M3, Audi RS4, or MB C63 AMG too. Then again, I could fill my garage with two ATS for the same money and still have money for dinner.
What other sedans of this size are rocking a V8? It's not a big car.
LPlus I'd rather have a RWD V8 in a sedan that size. 4 bangers should be left for Ford Focus,etc.
Sure, I'd rather have a BMW M3, Audi RS4, or MB C63 AMG too. Then again, I could fill my garage with two ATS for the same money and still have money for dinner.
What other sedans of this size are rocking a V8? It's not a big car.
Does the ATS RWD car have an open differential, or a physical limited slip differential?
I would take a RWD limited slip differential equipped car with Good Quality Winter Tires over an AWD car with open differentials, traction control, and all season tires every single time.
That's why I bought winter tires for my RX-8, and did way better in the snow that anyone with a FWD or AWD car on all season tires, taking off from lights, and going around corners.
That's also why my new CX-5, with AWD, has a set of snow tires mounted on the stock wheels, when snow season returns.
Now, a RWD car with an open differential is nearly worthless in snow, winter tires or not, in my opinion.
BC.
I would take a RWD limited slip differential equipped car with Good Quality Winter Tires over an AWD car with open differentials, traction control, and all season tires every single time.
That's why I bought winter tires for my RX-8, and did way better in the snow that anyone with a FWD or AWD car on all season tires, taking off from lights, and going around corners.
That's also why my new CX-5, with AWD, has a set of snow tires mounted on the stock wheels, when snow season returns.
Now, a RWD car with an open differential is nearly worthless in snow, winter tires or not, in my opinion.
BC.
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter
Does the ATS RWD car have an open differential, or a physical limited slip differential?
The manual trans ATS as well as all ATS with the FE3 sport suspension package (Premium versions) have mechanical limited-slip differential.
With that said, my 530i has open diff and I've never had any problems with it driving on winter tires in winter conditions.
Does the ATS RWD car have an open differential, or a physical limited slip differential?
The manual trans ATS as well as all ATS with the FE3 sport suspension package (Premium versions) have mechanical limited-slip differential.
With that said, my 530i has open diff and I've never had any problems with it driving on winter tires in winter conditions.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
With that said, my 530i has open diff and I've never had any problems with it driving on winter tires in winter conditions.
Not unexpected.
Most modern RWD cars use the rear brakes to do a bit of torque management across an open differential, creating a "software-based" limited slip differential. By applying brake to a slipping axle on one end of an open differential, torque is forced through the opposite axle.
There are even AWD systems equipped with three open differential and exclusively use software to manipulate torque through each diff.
Is it as good as a real limited slip differential? No. It will always be a reactive system, responding to wheel speed sensor inputs before any torque manipulation occurs. This is compared to a mechanical limited slip, which have some type of preload or bias that must be overcome. Still, it's better than nothing and really can make a difference.
With that said, my 530i has open diff and I've never had any problems with it driving on winter tires in winter conditions.
Not unexpected.
Most modern RWD cars use the rear brakes to do a bit of torque management across an open differential, creating a "software-based" limited slip differential. By applying brake to a slipping axle on one end of an open differential, torque is forced through the opposite axle.
There are even AWD systems equipped with three open differential and exclusively use software to manipulate torque through each diff.
Is it as good as a real limited slip differential? No. It will always be a reactive system, responding to wheel speed sensor inputs before any torque manipulation occurs. This is compared to a mechanical limited slip, which have some type of preload or bias that must be overcome. Still, it's better than nothing and really can make a difference.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Looked at the pics of it and I just don't like it. Fake wood and cheap carbon fiber,yuck! Plus I'd rather have a RWD V8 in a sedan that size. 4 bangers should be left for Ford Focus,etc.
Start saving up the $60k for the V.
Its a little sedan, only the Germans put V8's in cars that small.
If you don't like the wood you can get aluminum. The wood is the same stuff you will find in just about every sub $50k car. To really get proper wood in a vehicle you have to spend a ton of money.
Looked at the pics of it and I just don't like it. Fake wood and cheap carbon fiber,yuck! Plus I'd rather have a RWD V8 in a sedan that size. 4 bangers should be left for Ford Focus,etc.
Start saving up the $60k for the V.
Its a little sedan, only the Germans put V8's in cars that small.
If you don't like the wood you can get aluminum. The wood is the same stuff you will find in just about every sub $50k car. To really get proper wood in a vehicle you have to spend a ton of money.
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Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Looked at the pics of it and I just don't like it. Fake wood and cheap carbon fiber,yuck! Plus I'd rather have a RWD V8 in a sedan that size. 4 bangers should be left for Ford Focus,etc.
Start saving up the $60k for the V.
Its a little sedan, only the Germans put V8's in cars that small.
If you don't like the wood you can get aluminum. The wood is the same stuff you will find in just about every sub $50k car. To really get proper wood in a vehicle you have to spend a ton of money.
I bet real wood in a car looks nice! Aluminum would be awesome too! Something I`ve never seen before. I could deal with the faux wood trim,but I HATE carbon fiber trim with a passion. Reminds me of those cheapy accessories you could buy at Autozone,etc.
I really miss the days of the Lincolns and Caddies that had the huge V8s and drove like a livingroom on wheels :^)
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Looked at the pics of it and I just don't like it. Fake wood and cheap carbon fiber,yuck! Plus I'd rather have a RWD V8 in a sedan that size. 4 bangers should be left for Ford Focus,etc.
Start saving up the $60k for the V.
Its a little sedan, only the Germans put V8's in cars that small.
If you don't like the wood you can get aluminum. The wood is the same stuff you will find in just about every sub $50k car. To really get proper wood in a vehicle you have to spend a ton of money.
I bet real wood in a car looks nice! Aluminum would be awesome too! Something I`ve never seen before. I could deal with the faux wood trim,but I HATE carbon fiber trim with a passion. Reminds me of those cheapy accessories you could buy at Autozone,etc.
I really miss the days of the Lincolns and Caddies that had the huge V8s and drove like a livingroom on wheels :^)
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I`ve just always been weary of domestic 4 bangers. Seemed like back in the day they would always begin to sound like a bumblebee after they got some years/miles on them,like they were always straining to propel the car.
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Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
... I could deal with the faux wood trim,but I HATE carbon fiber trim with a passion. Reminds me of those cheapy accessories you could buy at Autozone,etc.
It can't be worse than my faux carbon fiber.
It looks like bionic snakeskin.
... I could deal with the faux wood trim,but I HATE carbon fiber trim with a passion. Reminds me of those cheapy accessories you could buy at Autozone,etc.
It can't be worse than my faux carbon fiber.
It looks like bionic snakeskin.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I bet real wood in a car looks nice! Aluminum would be awesome too! Something I`ve never seen before. I could deal with the faux wood trim,but I HATE carbon fiber trim with a passion. Reminds me of those cheapy accessories you could buy at Autozone,etc.
The ATS 2.0 Standard AWD that I drove, which was the same they had on the showroom floor, had black, textured aluminum trim on the door panels, etc. It looked good and the fit and finish seemed good. The various faux-wood and carbon fiber stuff is all optional or part of packages. The only thing I was disappointed in when it came to the interior was the rear-view mirror. Instead of being an self-dimming mirror, it was one with the manual toggle. But I can replace that with with a Gentex myself for under $100 so it wasn't a major concern.
I bet real wood in a car looks nice! Aluminum would be awesome too! Something I`ve never seen before. I could deal with the faux wood trim,but I HATE carbon fiber trim with a passion. Reminds me of those cheapy accessories you could buy at Autozone,etc.
The ATS 2.0 Standard AWD that I drove, which was the same they had on the showroom floor, had black, textured aluminum trim on the door panels, etc. It looked good and the fit and finish seemed good. The various faux-wood and carbon fiber stuff is all optional or part of packages. The only thing I was disappointed in when it came to the interior was the rear-view mirror. Instead of being an self-dimming mirror, it was one with the manual toggle. But I can replace that with with a Gentex myself for under $100 so it wasn't a major concern.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I really miss the days of the Lincolns and Caddies that had the huge V8s and drove like a livingroom on wheels :^)
These days the Japanese are keeping up the tradition: Lexus LS has a V8 and it most certainly resembles a sterile sofa on wheels.
I really miss the days of the Lincolns and Caddies that had the huge V8s and drove like a livingroom on wheels :^)
These days the Japanese are keeping up the tradition: Lexus LS has a V8 and it most certainly resembles a sterile sofa on wheels.
Originally Posted By: barlowc
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I bet real wood in a car looks nice! Aluminum would be awesome too! Something I`ve never seen before. I could deal with the faux wood trim,but I HATE carbon fiber trim with a passion. Reminds me of those cheapy accessories you could buy at Autozone,etc.
The ATS 2.0 Standard AWD that I drove, which was the same they had on the showroom floor, had black, textured aluminum trim on the door panels, etc. It looked good and the fit and finish seemed good. The various faux-wood and carbon fiber stuff is all optional or part of packages. The only thing I was disappointed in when it came to the interior was the rear-view mirror. Instead of being an self-dimming mirror, it was one with the manual toggle. But I can replace that with with a Gentex myself for under $100 so it wasn't a major concern.
All the black interior ATS get the aluminum trim, other colors get 3 different colors of faux wood trim. Only the standard trim has the non-dimming mirror, all other trims get the auto dimming. I agree they did a very nice job on the interior, everything feels very high quality and well assembled.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I bet real wood in a car looks nice! Aluminum would be awesome too! Something I`ve never seen before. I could deal with the faux wood trim,but I HATE carbon fiber trim with a passion. Reminds me of those cheapy accessories you could buy at Autozone,etc.
The ATS 2.0 Standard AWD that I drove, which was the same they had on the showroom floor, had black, textured aluminum trim on the door panels, etc. It looked good and the fit and finish seemed good. The various faux-wood and carbon fiber stuff is all optional or part of packages. The only thing I was disappointed in when it came to the interior was the rear-view mirror. Instead of being an self-dimming mirror, it was one with the manual toggle. But I can replace that with with a Gentex myself for under $100 so it wasn't a major concern.
All the black interior ATS get the aluminum trim, other colors get 3 different colors of faux wood trim. Only the standard trim has the non-dimming mirror, all other trims get the auto dimming. I agree they did a very nice job on the interior, everything feels very high quality and well assembled.
The April 2013 edition of Consumer Reports knocks on the fuel-economy of the 2.0-liter turbo stating 23 MPG. (In comparison they list 28 MPG for the 328i.) I wonder if the real-world mixed-driving mileage really is that low?
Originally Posted By: barlowc
I wonder if the real-world mixed-driving mileage really is that low?
This thread has some user reported results, although not just for the 2.0T version.
The mpg numbers do appear to be rather low, although I suspect a lot has to do with the way you drive it. I'm guessing most people buy the 2.0T to have some fun with it, and when you gun a turbo, fuel economy takes a beating. This is partly why if I were to get an ATS, it would be the 3.6 version.
And if you drive a 328i in a spirited manner, I also doubt you'll average 28 mpg, but all in all, it does seem to deliver somewhat higher mpg.
I wonder if the real-world mixed-driving mileage really is that low?
This thread has some user reported results, although not just for the 2.0T version.
The mpg numbers do appear to be rather low, although I suspect a lot has to do with the way you drive it. I'm guessing most people buy the 2.0T to have some fun with it, and when you gun a turbo, fuel economy takes a beating. This is partly why if I were to get an ATS, it would be the 3.6 version.
And if you drive a 328i in a spirited manner, I also doubt you'll average 28 mpg, but all in all, it does seem to deliver somewhat higher mpg.
Originally Posted By: barlowc
The April 2013 edition of Consumer Reports knocks on the fuel-economy of the 2.0-liter turbo stating 23 MPG. (In comparison they list 28 MPG for the 328i.) I wonder if the real-world mixed-driving mileage really is that low?
We got better than that with the extremely zippy V6 model. That's with lead footed wifey driving, too.
CR is worthless drivel as far as cars go IMO.
The April 2013 edition of Consumer Reports knocks on the fuel-economy of the 2.0-liter turbo stating 23 MPG. (In comparison they list 28 MPG for the 328i.) I wonder if the real-world mixed-driving mileage really is that low?
We got better than that with the extremely zippy V6 model. That's with lead footed wifey driving, too.
CR is worthless drivel as far as cars go IMO.
I was just reading this ATS review from Jalopnik and got a chuckle out of it. They do make some good points, all in all...
Quote:
Value is a peculiar measure. Is a BMW that's slightly cheaper than a real BMW a better value? No. If you want a BMW you absolutely should buy a BMW. It still means something to own a BMW. It also means something to own an Audi or a Mercedes.
What it means to own a Cadillac is what it means to live in Boca Raton playing bocci ball. Cadillac is trying to change that, and this is a good first step, but it is of no value to save a few hundred bucks (in most cases) buying this car.
Throw out everything you care about. Throw out all the [bee-es] prestige arguments and you arrive at the ATS's real value: the platform. A fun-to-drive, relatively light RWD setup with a manual transmission and a nice interior for a good price.
http://jalopnik.com/5928279/cadillac-ats-the-jalopnik-review
Quote:
Value is a peculiar measure. Is a BMW that's slightly cheaper than a real BMW a better value? No. If you want a BMW you absolutely should buy a BMW. It still means something to own a BMW. It also means something to own an Audi or a Mercedes.
What it means to own a Cadillac is what it means to live in Boca Raton playing bocci ball. Cadillac is trying to change that, and this is a good first step, but it is of no value to save a few hundred bucks (in most cases) buying this car.
Throw out everything you care about. Throw out all the [bee-es] prestige arguments and you arrive at the ATS's real value: the platform. A fun-to-drive, relatively light RWD setup with a manual transmission and a nice interior for a good price.
http://jalopnik.com/5928279/cadillac-ats-the-jalopnik-review
^^^Yep. If there's one thing that really shines in any ATS version it's the "fun to drive" factor. The car is involving, entertaining, and cat-like in that it never seems to place a tire wrong or lose traction. Outrageously good brakes which is appreciated by non-enthusiasts as well!
Note this is even on the cheaper trim levels. My fav powertrain is still the 3.6 with the very responsive and well calibrated GM 6 speed slushbox. It had a sport mode and held gears in the corners. Very smooth and lightning fast response, with no annoying hunting.
Can you tell we liked it? If it was a touch bigger on the inside I bet we'd have liked it even better. Plus there is almost no trunk!
GM's finest offering right now among many, IMO.
Note this is even on the cheaper trim levels. My fav powertrain is still the 3.6 with the very responsive and well calibrated GM 6 speed slushbox. It had a sport mode and held gears in the corners. Very smooth and lightning fast response, with no annoying hunting.
Can you tell we liked it? If it was a touch bigger on the inside I bet we'd have liked it even better. Plus there is almost no trunk!
GM's finest offering right now among many, IMO.
Seems like an example of media bias. Did they ever say this about Japanese and Korean makes? When Lexus introduced the LS400, the media praised it to high heaven and never suggested it is not as good a genuine Mercedes or BMW. They never said any of the Johnny come lately copy cat asian vehicles were not the real deal.
Cadillac has been around a long time, and making personal luxury and sports cars is not new to GM. All the makes imitate each other to some degree. Asian and European cars are becoming similar to American and American cars are becoming similar to them.
Cadillac has been around a long time, and making personal luxury and sports cars is not new to GM. All the makes imitate each other to some degree. Asian and European cars are becoming similar to American and American cars are becoming similar to them.
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