Safety was a big consideration for me when I bought the Malibu. Something I regret though is not paying attention to the fact that it didn't come with ABS brakes. The base model for 2007 changed to LS, whereas the base model for 2006 had no letter designation. I had read outdated info for a 2006 Malibu at the time that stated the LS (which was one step up from the base) came with ABS standard, but since all the models moved down a step I missed out on that.
Thoughts on Safety Features?
- Thread starter The Critic
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
If I could buy a new car without any safety features besides seatbelts(other than designed in structural safety like crumple zones, energy absorbing steering column etc, in other words no ABS, airbags, stability control etc) and no emission controls I would.
Not that I'm against safety features and emission as I see they have their value. I would just like to have at least one new bare bones mechanicals sporty car. Airbags their self have been known to cuase various injuries and even deaths themselves in earlier designs and in certain models.
I think the closest you can get to that is the fleet Impala. I have an '04 w/o ABS, traction control, etc. Airbags only in the dash. Car is bigger than most and super reliable with good gas mileage, and the laws of physics are in your favor.
If I could buy a new car without any safety features besides seatbelts(other than designed in structural safety like crumple zones, energy absorbing steering column etc, in other words no ABS, airbags, stability control etc) and no emission controls I would.
Not that I'm against safety features and emission as I see they have their value. I would just like to have at least one new bare bones mechanicals sporty car. Airbags their self have been known to cuase various injuries and even deaths themselves in earlier designs and in certain models.
I think the closest you can get to that is the fleet Impala. I have an '04 w/o ABS, traction control, etc. Airbags only in the dash. Car is bigger than most and super reliable with good gas mileage, and the laws of physics are in your favor.
Last edited:
I've had some ABS maintenance headaches, replaced a hard line and needed a scan tool to bleed properly. Can blame it on poor design and not the tech itself I guess.
When it's snowy/icy I give a quick "burst" of braking as I approach intersections to test the threshold. I could still do that with ABS I guess, but my burst tells me a lot, if the front or rear is going to lock first, and if the middle or edge of the road is more slippery. Agreen on the washboard surfaces freaking the system out.
Rented an AWD astro-van, what a pile! Had some sort of viscous center diff, was locking up on ripply pavement. Horrible ride.
Don't mind a solid chassis, but why are economy cars 3000 lb now? That's half a ton too much! IDK how much is sound deadening and emissions junk and how much extra metal.
Spend time commuting on a motorcycle when it's not raining, so a lot of this car stuff is mox-nix. Appreciate stuff like clean windows that many do not keep up to snuff.
When it's snowy/icy I give a quick "burst" of braking as I approach intersections to test the threshold. I could still do that with ABS I guess, but my burst tells me a lot, if the front or rear is going to lock first, and if the middle or edge of the road is more slippery. Agreen on the washboard surfaces freaking the system out.
Rented an AWD astro-van, what a pile! Had some sort of viscous center diff, was locking up on ripply pavement. Horrible ride.
Don't mind a solid chassis, but why are economy cars 3000 lb now? That's half a ton too much! IDK how much is sound deadening and emissions junk and how much extra metal.
Spend time commuting on a motorcycle when it's not raining, so a lot of this car stuff is mox-nix. Appreciate stuff like clean windows that many do not keep up to snuff.
Dislike TPMS. Suppose it serves a purpose, especially high profile vehicles. But for PC's I don't care for it and find it unnecessary.
Had to have an ABS sensor replaced on an 01 Civic, very expensive, and only the dealer (at that time) had a code reader with software to determine which wheel sensor was bad. I felt ripped off, thankfully (knock wood) it's only been one. Have a couple vehicles without ABS that work fine for me. Guess I can take it or leave it. I do wonder if the brake fluid takes a greater beating with ABS.
Had to have an ABS sensor replaced on an 01 Civic, very expensive, and only the dealer (at that time) had a code reader with software to determine which wheel sensor was bad. I felt ripped off, thankfully (knock wood) it's only been one. Have a couple vehicles without ABS that work fine for me. Guess I can take it or leave it. I do wonder if the brake fluid takes a greater beating with ABS.
Saftey features? Both of my cars only have front air bags and are, statistically speaking, not very safe.
The Tracker is prone to rolling but is setup for understeer in the suspension tuning and brake balance. My words of advice for my wife is, when in doubt cover the brake, scrubbing speed fast will make any accident less severe, and with less chance of roll over... It doesn't matter that you are in the right, if your upside down in the ditch.
We do have snowtires for both cars, and they are light, 2500, 2900lbs and agile which really helps in low traction situations, F=ma remember, mass cuts both ways...
My only real nightmare scenario is a head on crash on my 2 lane highway commute, the Neon will lose very badly to almost anything, I like to think I'm always ready to head for the shoulder and then the ditch if needed to avoid this. Hopefully I'll never have to try it.
The Tracker is prone to rolling but is setup for understeer in the suspension tuning and brake balance. My words of advice for my wife is, when in doubt cover the brake, scrubbing speed fast will make any accident less severe, and with less chance of roll over... It doesn't matter that you are in the right, if your upside down in the ditch.
We do have snowtires for both cars, and they are light, 2500, 2900lbs and agile which really helps in low traction situations, F=ma remember, mass cuts both ways...
My only real nightmare scenario is a head on crash on my 2 lane highway commute, the Neon will lose very badly to almost anything, I like to think I'm always ready to head for the shoulder and then the ditch if needed to avoid this. Hopefully I'll never have to try it.
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Originally Posted By: sciphi
ABS has saved my Buick's tail back when it had [censored]-poor tires on an icy road. It kept me from sliding into a busy intersection since there was enough room to slow at ABS speed. Without ABS I would have kept sliding. I'm not a good enough driver to properly use non-ABS brakes in panic situations.
I've had some fairly awesome tires that refused to give up wet grip except when the road was under inches of water. I've also driven some tires that could not grip in the wet. The former are on my car now.
Give me all the reasonable safety features I can get. And add a lot of caution, along with grippy tires and powerful brakes.
As much as ABS sometimes helps Ive found often it can be as much of a hindrance to stopping. Ive had washboard road activate it and extend the stopping distance over what it would have been. Almost rear ended someone once because this parking lot had a speed bump right inside the entrance and the person in front of me jumped on the brakes right as my front tires were coming off that and the ABS went NUTS! I got [censored], parked it right there off to the side, popped the hood, and removed the ABS relay. Ran like that for a couple months until I let my Mom borrow it and I put it back in for her. Gravel roads too, like, dont even bother, it will never stop.
On dry, flat pavement, it is awesome. It will make the tires smoke without actually locking up and skidding. I think because its applying the same tolerance for lock-up to everything it isnt always optimal. I think for certain surfaces it needs to be looser, maybe. Im not sure.. But, its dumb, it doesn't know what you are driving on.. So when it works, it works really well. But, when it doesnt, youll know it, because it really blows too.
As far as traction control, it was an option on my car. It doesnt have it. Just as well, as I would disable it. I pretty much steer with my right foot in the winter, anyways. Ive found with a good set of snows and manual 2nd it will almost plow snow.
Side air bags were also an option on my car, IIRC. One of the few things I wish it had. I probably cant retrofit it either like most of the other things I want to change.
I did side-by-side comparos at 3 am years back with our pathfinder, 7" snow, 30mph, pass the streetlamp, hit the brakes, measure the distance. Repeat. Then pull the fuse, repeat. Stopped shorter w/o abs every time. Did this after having a hard time with it on snow descent. couldn't stop the dang thing, felt like abs was fighting me... one wheel slips and they all loosen the brakes to compensate. Felt this system was dangerous. was ok in the rain.
Chrysler Town and Country had a much better system for snow use. quicker, more precise, seemed to have better "resolution." daimler influence I'm sure.
So, I think the effectiveness of abs varies per vehicle.
I do care about safety. It's in the top 3, especially for the wife and kids. I drove a 93 jeep GC until recently, probably one of the least-safe cars I'd owned, but it had side impact beams, driver airbag, good seatbelts. It handled panic stops surprisingly well, I mean, it'd track straight with zero wallow or waggle. It had very good visibility (during the day... at night the lighting was pretty bad). I added headrests in the back for when I had the kids. But we made sure my (x) wife's car had TSC, ESP, ABC and "52" airbags as stated above.
My current jeep gets 5 stars, but I bought it for much more specific reasons-- frequent big cargo, some towing, and light steering due to chronic injury. In this case, safety was in 4th or 5th place. Finding light steering in a cargo/family hauler was a bit tough this time.
Originally Posted By: sciphi
ABS has saved my Buick's tail back when it had [censored]-poor tires on an icy road. It kept me from sliding into a busy intersection since there was enough room to slow at ABS speed. Without ABS I would have kept sliding. I'm not a good enough driver to properly use non-ABS brakes in panic situations.
I've had some fairly awesome tires that refused to give up wet grip except when the road was under inches of water. I've also driven some tires that could not grip in the wet. The former are on my car now.
Give me all the reasonable safety features I can get. And add a lot of caution, along with grippy tires and powerful brakes.
As much as ABS sometimes helps Ive found often it can be as much of a hindrance to stopping. Ive had washboard road activate it and extend the stopping distance over what it would have been. Almost rear ended someone once because this parking lot had a speed bump right inside the entrance and the person in front of me jumped on the brakes right as my front tires were coming off that and the ABS went NUTS! I got [censored], parked it right there off to the side, popped the hood, and removed the ABS relay. Ran like that for a couple months until I let my Mom borrow it and I put it back in for her. Gravel roads too, like, dont even bother, it will never stop.
On dry, flat pavement, it is awesome. It will make the tires smoke without actually locking up and skidding. I think because its applying the same tolerance for lock-up to everything it isnt always optimal. I think for certain surfaces it needs to be looser, maybe. Im not sure.. But, its dumb, it doesn't know what you are driving on.. So when it works, it works really well. But, when it doesnt, youll know it, because it really blows too.
As far as traction control, it was an option on my car. It doesnt have it. Just as well, as I would disable it. I pretty much steer with my right foot in the winter, anyways. Ive found with a good set of snows and manual 2nd it will almost plow snow.
Side air bags were also an option on my car, IIRC. One of the few things I wish it had. I probably cant retrofit it either like most of the other things I want to change.
I did side-by-side comparos at 3 am years back with our pathfinder, 7" snow, 30mph, pass the streetlamp, hit the brakes, measure the distance. Repeat. Then pull the fuse, repeat. Stopped shorter w/o abs every time. Did this after having a hard time with it on snow descent. couldn't stop the dang thing, felt like abs was fighting me... one wheel slips and they all loosen the brakes to compensate. Felt this system was dangerous. was ok in the rain.
Chrysler Town and Country had a much better system for snow use. quicker, more precise, seemed to have better "resolution." daimler influence I'm sure.
So, I think the effectiveness of abs varies per vehicle.
I do care about safety. It's in the top 3, especially for the wife and kids. I drove a 93 jeep GC until recently, probably one of the least-safe cars I'd owned, but it had side impact beams, driver airbag, good seatbelts. It handled panic stops surprisingly well, I mean, it'd track straight with zero wallow or waggle. It had very good visibility (during the day... at night the lighting was pretty bad). I added headrests in the back for when I had the kids. But we made sure my (x) wife's car had TSC, ESP, ABC and "52" airbags as stated above.
My current jeep gets 5 stars, but I bought it for much more specific reasons-- frequent big cargo, some towing, and light steering due to chronic injury. In this case, safety was in 4th or 5th place. Finding light steering in a cargo/family hauler was a bit tough this time.
Saftey features is by far the #1 factor in my decision. It is a priority over style, brand, MPG, features, etc. I exclud any vehicle that does not get 5 stars in EVERY crash category.
Defensive driving is important but is not a substitute. In many accidents there is no time to react. I was hit a few years back while stopped in traffic. A brand new Ford Fusion (still had the dealer plates) going about 50mph slammed into a Jeep Grand Cherokee behind me. It picked up the Jeep pushing it out of the way, kept going and hit me. I was tagged pretty good but the Jeep took most of the force. All three drivers and their passengers walked away. If you saw the Ford you would swear the person driving it was killed. The entire front end was ripped off, windshield shattered and parts of the roof were crumpled.
I have friends and family members who were killed in car accidents. Some may have beeen avoided but the lack of safety features resulted in their death. One was a 1980's Mazda. Car gently rolled off the road on a turn however the roof crumpled like a soda can and caused fatal head injuries. The other, the driver was speeding and hit a tree. Not sure if airbags, stronger frame, etc would have helped but it might have.
Last accident was a friends mother-in-law. She was driving when a convicted felon on the run from the police slammed into her. If she was in an SUV or safer car she might have been OK.
There are way to many drunk, distracted, crazy, stupid, aggressive, old & young drivers on the road. Add in some nutjob truck drivers and it is a dangerous place. I will do what I can to protect my family.
Defensive driving is important but is not a substitute. In many accidents there is no time to react. I was hit a few years back while stopped in traffic. A brand new Ford Fusion (still had the dealer plates) going about 50mph slammed into a Jeep Grand Cherokee behind me. It picked up the Jeep pushing it out of the way, kept going and hit me. I was tagged pretty good but the Jeep took most of the force. All three drivers and their passengers walked away. If you saw the Ford you would swear the person driving it was killed. The entire front end was ripped off, windshield shattered and parts of the roof were crumpled.
I have friends and family members who were killed in car accidents. Some may have beeen avoided but the lack of safety features resulted in their death. One was a 1980's Mazda. Car gently rolled off the road on a turn however the roof crumpled like a soda can and caused fatal head injuries. The other, the driver was speeding and hit a tree. Not sure if airbags, stronger frame, etc would have helped but it might have.
Last accident was a friends mother-in-law. She was driving when a convicted felon on the run from the police slammed into her. If she was in an SUV or safer car she might have been OK.
There are way to many drunk, distracted, crazy, stupid, aggressive, old & young drivers on the road. Add in some nutjob truck drivers and it is a dangerous place. I will do what I can to protect my family.
And I'll add a couple thoughts about side-curtain airbags (applicable also, but maybe to a lesser degree to side-seat bags).
I'd probably be dead today were it not for the side-curtains in my late 2002 Camry. That car was an I-4, 5-spd manual stripper, but it had the curtains. I picked it sort of on a whim -- there was an identical one, minus curtains, for about $500 less. To this day, I'm really not sure what made me pick it -- I was only barely aware of the existence of side-curtains back then. Spooky...
In early 2003, I got T-boned hard by a full-size SUV whose driver said he was doing about 40 mph before impact. Last thing I saw was the grille, seemingly about a foot from my face, and coming fast.
And then the curtains deployed. Wow. They come out faster and harder than frontal bags do, because they have much less time in which to perform their magic. They hit you hard, and it hurts. But it sure beats having your brain sucked through a Tahoe's radiator.
Anyway, as you all can imagine, I've had plenty of time to ponder this, and I'm left with a couple lasting conclusions. First, I will never, ever, ever own another car with no side-curtains. Even in a large, heavy car, the point of impact for a side hit is less than a foot from your outboard elbow. Unlike a frontal impact, there's just not enough metal and space to make a real difference when the hit comes from the side. I'd rather be in a Corolla or Cobalt with side bags, than an Impala or Accord without them.
Second, I'm a little surprised, looking back in time, that frontal bags came so long before side bags. Frontal bags are great, and offer critically important protection, but side bags make a much bigger difference, IMO, compared to cars without them. Heavy flanking collisions, that used to mean certain death for those on the impacted side are now routinely survivable. Witness my own continued existence... Think about it -- in a frontal crash, you've got all that car out in front, AND the bag to protect you. From the side, all you have is a few inches of door (beam or not) and a piece of glass.
p.s./btw, I'm now probably the most paranoid cross-street checker on the planet.
I'd probably be dead today were it not for the side-curtains in my late 2002 Camry. That car was an I-4, 5-spd manual stripper, but it had the curtains. I picked it sort of on a whim -- there was an identical one, minus curtains, for about $500 less. To this day, I'm really not sure what made me pick it -- I was only barely aware of the existence of side-curtains back then. Spooky...
In early 2003, I got T-boned hard by a full-size SUV whose driver said he was doing about 40 mph before impact. Last thing I saw was the grille, seemingly about a foot from my face, and coming fast.
And then the curtains deployed. Wow. They come out faster and harder than frontal bags do, because they have much less time in which to perform their magic. They hit you hard, and it hurts. But it sure beats having your brain sucked through a Tahoe's radiator.
Anyway, as you all can imagine, I've had plenty of time to ponder this, and I'm left with a couple lasting conclusions. First, I will never, ever, ever own another car with no side-curtains. Even in a large, heavy car, the point of impact for a side hit is less than a foot from your outboard elbow. Unlike a frontal impact, there's just not enough metal and space to make a real difference when the hit comes from the side. I'd rather be in a Corolla or Cobalt with side bags, than an Impala or Accord without them.
Second, I'm a little surprised, looking back in time, that frontal bags came so long before side bags. Frontal bags are great, and offer critically important protection, but side bags make a much bigger difference, IMO, compared to cars without them. Heavy flanking collisions, that used to mean certain death for those on the impacted side are now routinely survivable. Witness my own continued existence... Think about it -- in a frontal crash, you've got all that car out in front, AND the bag to protect you. From the side, all you have is a few inches of door (beam or not) and a piece of glass.
p.s./btw, I'm now probably the most paranoid cross-street checker on the planet.
My first couple cars were pretty unsafe all around as far as specific safety features go -- a 1988 Toyota Tercel and a 1983 Datsun 280zx. The longer I've been driving though the more important safety features are to me. I like small, nimble cars and so does my wife, but I've made sure that both our DDs have the full complement of air bags (front, side, curtain). They've both got ABS too, but not traction control -- in our climate out here that's fine with me.
Chassis design and crash compatibility are important to me too, and I'm glad manufacturers are putting so much effort into designing steel unibodies that can take huge forces and keep the passenger compartments intact. Some of the photos I've seen of wrecks people have walked away from these days are really amazing.
Our Suburban has mass on its side but is probably the least safe vehicle we have overall, but it doesn't get much drive time anyway.
Overall, talking about new cars, I'm thankful that safety has come so far. Similar to reliability, there just aren't many new cars sold that aren't safer in many ways than most cars were 30 years ago. It means that you can treat safety as a priority when picking a car, but that doesn't actually have to limit your choices very much!
Chassis design and crash compatibility are important to me too, and I'm glad manufacturers are putting so much effort into designing steel unibodies that can take huge forces and keep the passenger compartments intact. Some of the photos I've seen of wrecks people have walked away from these days are really amazing.
Our Suburban has mass on its side but is probably the least safe vehicle we have overall, but it doesn't get much drive time anyway.
Overall, talking about new cars, I'm thankful that safety has come so far. Similar to reliability, there just aren't many new cars sold that aren't safer in many ways than most cars were 30 years ago. It means that you can treat safety as a priority when picking a car, but that doesn't actually have to limit your choices very much!
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Stability Control: Don't care either way. It's not a bad thing to have, but no decent modern car with modern tires should ever need it unless you are driving in such a way that you deserve to crash.
That would include the majority of people driving!
Stability Control: Don't care either way. It's not a bad thing to have, but no decent modern car with modern tires should ever need it unless you are driving in such a way that you deserve to crash.
That would include the majority of people driving!
To say that stability control is not good simply proves that you have limited experience across many different platforms.
Some cars can have a beautifully restrained system that only intervenes in the most critical moments and actually can help teach you to be a better driver 'at the edge'.
Other cars will intervene early and often and and simply suck!
And you can keep your 'tanks'. Give me a super crush-able car with a properly rigid passenger cell. I've crashed a few tanks and they tend to hurt you.
Some cars can have a beautifully restrained system that only intervenes in the most critical moments and actually can help teach you to be a better driver 'at the edge'.
Other cars will intervene early and often and and simply suck!
And you can keep your 'tanks'. Give me a super crush-able car with a properly rigid passenger cell. I've crashed a few tanks and they tend to hurt you.
I kind of consider safety features, but not really. I prefer air bags, ABS, crumple zones, etc. However, I would buy and drive an old truck with none of these features without a second thought.
ABS has been nice to have a couple times for me. It works well in my Rangers...you only notice it when you need it.
Often times though safety features become a problem that never serve their function. I know of a couple Civics and an E46 with air bag lights on.
ABS has been nice to have a couple times for me. It works well in my Rangers...you only notice it when you need it.
Often times though safety features become a problem that never serve their function. I know of a couple Civics and an E46 with air bag lights on.
- Status
Similar threads
