Thoughts on rotors

[wallyuwl]

Anyone have experience with either the Wearever 2 yr. replacement rotors and/or the Wagner lifetime replacement rotors, both at Advance (and some other places)?

I've got a smallish car (2003 Vibe) and the factory rotors are still on there but have been turned a couple times already and are warping again. I'm looking for a rotor more resistant to heat and warping that will last the life of the pads. I'll probably be pairing them with the Wagner ThermoQuiet ceramic pads.

This will only be the second brake job I've done and I used CarQuest products on the other one, but with the coupons for Advance I'd like to get the parts there.

Also, how important is it to replace the shims if they aren't damaged? I used the old ones on my previous brake job.

 

[VK56VD]

The ThermoQuiet should come with shims already attached.

Don't throw away your OEM shims. Clean themup and save them in case you ever decide to use OEM pads again as these shims usually sell separately and are pricey.

 

[Milkman]

I would buy the cheapest rotors they have and plan on changing them with every pad change. I have found it almost the same cost to have rotors cut as replacing them. Plus, no running to the store...

Wagner Pads seem to be good, in my experience.

 

[Jimmy9190]

I put a set of Wearever rotors from AAP on my Dakota in January. That was about 12,000 miles ago and have had not a bit of trouble from them. I also put on a set of the Wearever Silver pads with them. I have had no problems with the pads other than brake dust, which is really no worse than any other pad I have used. Ceramic pads have less dust but can also cut into the new rotors more than a metallic pad, so that is something to consider. Regardless of composition the pads should come with shims already attached.

Just inspect the rotors and pads before you leave the store. When I did my brakes in January I had first bought the exact same rotors at Napa, the box and labels were exactly the same, except one label said AAP and one label said Napa. They both said made in China. One of the rotors from Napa had 3 or 4 huge chunks chopped out of the vanes in the rotor. By the time I discovered the problem, Napa was closed and the next day was Sunday when Napa was closed so I had to buy another set of rotors at AAP because I needed my truck for work on Monday. Then on Monday I got a refund from Napa.

 

[spasm3]

Run the cheap rotors from advance or autozone and use really good brake pads like hawk. I think most brake warp problems are from the poor brake pad material welding itself to the rotor. ( if you get hawk pads, make sure you bed them in as they instruct. not all pads need bedding in but hawks do.)

 

[wallyuwl]

I'd like to use the AAP coupon. Other than the ThermoQuiets, they have Akebono brand pads. I know nothing about them. Are they easier on rotors than the ThermoQuiets?

 

[Milkman]

I have had good luck with the ThermoQuiets. Last time I checked the Akebono pads were a lot more $. From what I have heard Akebono makes a good product too. AAP sells more ThermoQuiets.

 

[The Critic]

Akebono pads are great. Rotors are cheap, and rotors do not have much meat on them anyway. Chances are, regardless of which pad you use, you'll need to replace rotors with every other pad replacement.

Also, if the car has over 100k, I would consider installing a set of remanufactured calipers. They include new hardware (abutment clips, guide pins, guide pin boots, etc) and a caliper with new seals. As calipers age, the seals stretch and the piston may not fully retract. If the pads drag, it is possible that it may contribute to pedal pulsation issues.

http://www.ucx.com/documents/squareseal.pdf

 

[Patman]

As I mentioned in another topic here lately, whatever rotors you buy, be sure to spray them over a few times with some high temperature clear coat. If you don't, many times the hats and fins will rust out very quickly and look like junk. But with the high temperature clear coat protecting them they'll stay new looking for a long time.

 

[wallyuwl]

Originally Posted By: Patman
As I mentioned in another topic here lately, whatever rotors you buy, be sure to spray them over a few times with some high temperature clear coat. If you don't, many times the hats and fins will rust out very quickly and look like junk. But with the high temperature clear coat protecting them they'll stay new looking for a long time.


You spray this on the whole rotor, not just the hub (like you might do with high temp paint to prevent flaking)?


Right now I am replacing pads because the rotors are shot. So are the Akebono pads easier on rotors than the ThermoQuiets?

I'll look at calipers. The vehicle has 108k miles, but is driven mostly hwy and is a 2003, so the brakes haven't been beat up on so I don't know if it is necessary at this point. I'm also not sure I trust myself to replace calipers on my own.

 

[wallyuwl]

Originally Posted By: The Critic

As calipers age, the seals stretch and the piston may not fully retract. If the pads drag, it is possible that it may contribute to pedal pulsation issues.

http://www.ucx.com/documents/squareseal.pdf


In other words, you're saying old calipers could be one of the causes of (or the main cause of) rotor warping because they are dragging on the pad all the time? I'd imagine this also would hurt gas mileage. I looked up replacing calipers and think I could do it.

How does this sound for a brake job: new calipers, a brake bleeding of the front brake lines (even though the fluid looks very fresh in the cylinder) replaced with Valvoline synthetic fluid, ThermoQuiet ceramic pads, and Wagner rotors?

I could get all the parts for about $180 from AAP using the coupons and doing separate orders. Don't plan on doing it until late July or early August, but would like to get the parts now to use the AAP coupons.

 

[mechtech2]

Originally Posted By: Milkman
I would buy the cheapest rotors they have and plan on changing them with every pad change. I have found it almost the same cost to have rotors cut as replacing them. Plus, no running to the store...

Wagner Pads seem to be good, in my experience.


Same here.
There are no guaranties anymore with brand name rotors. [No guaranties of quality. The replacement guaranty can be very good - for cheap or expensive versions.]
I have El Cheapo rotors on the a right now, and they were a full POUND heavier than the name brand ones. This is something I like in a rotor - mass.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
Originally Posted By: The Critic

As calipers age, the seals stretch and the piston may not fully retract. If the pads drag, it is possible that it may contribute to pedal pulsation issues.

http://www.ucx.com/documents/squareseal.pdf




How does this sound for a brake job: new calipers, a brake bleeding of the front brake lines (even though the fluid looks very fresh in the cylinder) replaced with Valvoline synthetic fluid, ThermoQuiet ceramic pads, and Wagner rotors?

I could get all the parts for about $180 from AAP using the coupons and doing separate orders. Don't plan on doing it until late July or early August, but would like to get the parts now to use the AAP coupons.



Sounds like a plan, how long do you plan on keeping the car? Changing the calipers will require bleeding the front brakes. I get a tiny funnel of syringe and prefill the calipers as much as I can with new brake fluid before I install them. It cuts down on bleeding them. HTH

 

[RnR]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
There are no guaranties anymore with brand name rotors. [No guaranties of quality. The replacement guaranty can be very good - for cheap or expensive versions.]
I have El Cheapo rotors on the a right now, and they were a full POUND heavier than the name brand ones. This is something I like in a rotor - mass.

What brand might the El Cheapo's have been? I like the idea of higher mass too..

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: wallyuwl


You spray this on the whole rotor, not just the hub (like you might do with high temp paint to prevent flaking)?




I sprayed it on the hats, and on the fins. I didn't bother spraying the braking surface but I also didn't mask it off so I'm sure a little bit got on it (which would come off the first time I used the brakes)

 

[mechtech2]

I got Auto Zone el cheapos for $18 or so [small car].
Make sure the part #s match, so both sides are the same.
These had a one year warranty, and are only a bit more than cutting old rotors.
Clean them off with brake cleaner. if you want to do a bit more prep, clean the rotor vanes [internal] and spray paint them with Rustoleum or high heat paint. Internal rust pushes things eventually and can cause brake wobble.

 

[javacontour]

buy the heaviest!

Rotors are a heat sink. There really can be a weight difference. Unless you are racing, I'm thinking the heaviest IRON rotor is the best.

I've had the parts guy bring examples of each part number and I'll take the heaviest one. If they weight the same, then the middle to lowest price rotor.

Cheap rotors are likely lighter and more prone to warpage.

I don't know if my theory holds much/any water. But I seldom warp rotors. I think I got 150K miles out of the rotors on the Prizm using this technique. I was just starting to get some pulse from it when I sold it.

 

[wallyuwl]

Just made 4 separate orders on AAP.com using the $20 off $50 coupons.

Order #1: Akebonos ceramic pads and one Wagner lifetime warranty rotor.

Needed to get the pads shipped because no local store had them, so I actually figured it out to get $30 off $100 but got free shipping on the pads. Separating the orders differently gets $20 off $50 but shipping is $10, so its the same either way.

Order #2: The other rotor and a P1 oil filter.

Order #3: One Cardone caliper (with hardware, no bracket) and some caliper lube.

Order #4: Same as #3 except the other caliper.

Total cost (after I return the core calipers): $182.51 including 6% sales tax.

To bleed the brakes I'm going to use the old but unopened bottle of Synpower brake fluid I have.

I got the Akebono pads instead of the ThermoQuiets because on their web site they make a point to mention that their pads are easy on rotors and show comparative tests. It might be just marketing, but I have reason to believe the ThermoQuiets (on the vehicle now) are hard on rotors. In 60k miles with these pads I've had the rotors turned once and they are warping again. The pad life is great, but it might come at the expense of being a hard pad that beats up the rotors. I know when you turn rotors they lose some ability to dissipate heat, but I still think the TQs are tough on them. On their web site Wagner makes no mention of the pads being easy on rotors and just talks about pad life.

Now I need to keep myself from installing them this weekend, and wait until August to do the job just before my wife goes back to teaching (50 mile commute each way to her school).

 

[mjoekingz28]

Way to go on the Wagner's. They're the rotors I wanted to get after the Wearevers warped on me. First set of wearevers warped so I took them back. Then the next set warped and they wouldn't take them back. They said I had already returned them once and they wouldnt do it again. But I'm trying to convey to them that they were under a 2yr warranty.

Maybe Im looking at things wrong, but that really miffed me. I dont hold much faith in AAP's warranty anymore. And I WAS one of their biggest fans, taking ALL of my business to them. Now I just go there for Purolators and the $10 coopin.

FWIW, the counter guy said they were warping because of the silver pads. Says I should've gone with ceramic.

 

[wallyuwl]

Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Way to go on the Wagner's. They're the rotors I wanted to get after the Wearevers warped on me.
FWIW, the counter guy said they were warping because of the silver pads. Says I should've gone with ceramic.


Somewhat to my surprise the Wagners are made in China. I would have thought they'd be US/Canada made, especially for the price (regularly $44 each). If not for the coupon I'd probably have gotten the CarQuest ones made in the US.

I thought ceramic were harder than semi-metallics? If that's the case then the ceramics would have warped the rotors quicker.

For your return, try taking just your original receipt to a different AAP and tell them you want to upgrade to the Wagners because you don't trust the Wearevers because they warped.