Thinner oil in 454?
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Originally Posted By: unDummy
Who cares what GM recommends since engine has been rebuilt already and not stock.
I'd definitely give the 0w20 a try. Might even want to UOA it for peace of mind.
Oil temp gauge is a must especially when towing the 8500# trailer.
The engine owner who will have to folk out money for another rebuild in about 1-3 years may care to know that his engine and its application are too harsh for 5W20.
Who cares what GM recommends since engine has been rebuilt already and not stock.
I'd definitely give the 0w20 a try. Might even want to UOA it for peace of mind.
Oil temp gauge is a must especially when towing the 8500# trailer.
The engine owner who will have to folk out money for another rebuild in about 1-3 years may care to know that his engine and its application are too harsh for 5W20.
Originally Posted By: Blaze
How about Mobil 1 Truck and SUV 5w30? That still has to flow pretty good at start up.
Does anyone know what the differences are between the vanilla 5w30 M1 and the Truck n Suv formula? Is it a more robust add pack or are the specs different too?
How about Mobil 1 Truck and SUV 5w30? That still has to flow pretty good at start up.
Does anyone know what the differences are between the vanilla 5w30 M1 and the Truck n Suv formula? Is it a more robust add pack or are the specs different too?
Originally Posted By: 3311
You seriously want to run a 20w in a BB Chevy which you use as a tow vehicle? If you want to go thin doesn't Shell have a 0w10 coming out? That will work even better than a 20w.
What does that have to do with anything? If he is getting the recommended PSI with a 20WT motor oil which I willing to bet my lunch on that his 30WT motor oil has sheared to in about 700 miles his into OCI he can use a 5W-20 with no problems.
You seriously want to run a 20w in a BB Chevy which you use as a tow vehicle? If you want to go thin doesn't Shell have a 0w10 coming out? That will work even better than a 20w.
What does that have to do with anything? If he is getting the recommended PSI with a 20WT motor oil which I willing to bet my lunch on that his 30WT motor oil has sheared to in about 700 miles his into OCI he can use a 5W-20 with no problems.
While I think a 20 grade oil would be fine, I would stick with the grade GM spec'd for the engine which is a 30 grade. I would use Castrol EDGE 5W30, or if you want a 0W30, AMSOIL Signature Series or Mobil 1 0W30 are highly respected here. If you have your heart set on a 20 grade oil, Amsoil ASM 0W20 is very close to a "thin" 30 grade oil. JMO
While 20 weight oil may give more than adequate oil pressure, will it have a thick enough layer in the bearings? There is more to engine lubrication than oil pressure.
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BTW Jeff, your redline starts at 4000 rpm? Mine is a 2000 and has an aftermarket tach, so no redline marked in, but given the power band of that engine and how mine runs/revs, the redline should be closer to 4800.
Also, I would run Full Synthetic in the motorhome, but at 3000-3500 miles a year, it's a waste. I run blend Maxlife and change it once a year.
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BTW Jeff, your redline starts at 4000 rpm? Mine is a 2000 and has an aftermarket tach, so no redline marked in, but given the power band of that engine and how mine runs/revs, the redline should be closer to 4800.
Also, I would run Full Synthetic in the motorhome, but at 3000-3500 miles a year, it's a waste. I run blend Maxlife and change it once a year.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: 3311
You seriously want to run a 20w in a BB Chevy which you use as a tow vehicle? If you want to go thin doesn't Shell have a 0w10 coming out? That will work even better than a 20w.
What does that have to do with anything? If he is getting the recommended PSI with a 20WT motor oil which I willing to bet my lunch on that his 30WT motor oil has sheared to in about 700 miles his into OCI he can use a 5W-20 with no problems.
Oil pressure has next to nothing to do with the oil film thickness in the bearings. In the vast majority of cases, a 30-weight oil will provide a thicker oil film than a 20-weight oil, and will protect your engine better under conditions of high load and temperature.
Originally Posted By: 3311
You seriously want to run a 20w in a BB Chevy which you use as a tow vehicle? If you want to go thin doesn't Shell have a 0w10 coming out? That will work even better than a 20w.
What does that have to do with anything? If he is getting the recommended PSI with a 20WT motor oil which I willing to bet my lunch on that his 30WT motor oil has sheared to in about 700 miles his into OCI he can use a 5W-20 with no problems.
Oil pressure has next to nothing to do with the oil film thickness in the bearings. In the vast majority of cases, a 30-weight oil will provide a thicker oil film than a 20-weight oil, and will protect your engine better under conditions of high load and temperature.
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: daman
As we speak I'm running 5w20 in and old school 350 Chevy thats in my plow truck, engine has great oil pressure. If the truck isn't being used to tow heavy loads or experiencing high oil temps? yea it'd run 5w20 in that mill you have plenty of OP to support bearing loads.
The idea that a 20WT motor oil could provide oil pressure that is in PSI specs just does not compute with some people.
Been running it all winter here plowing, bearings are still there.
since he has above average OP there should not be a problem.
That's interesting. What oil temperature does it get up to while plowing?
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: daman
As we speak I'm running 5w20 in and old school 350 Chevy thats in my plow truck, engine has great oil pressure. If the truck isn't being used to tow heavy loads or experiencing high oil temps? yea it'd run 5w20 in that mill you have plenty of OP to support bearing loads.
The idea that a 20WT motor oil could provide oil pressure that is in PSI specs just does not compute with some people.
Been running it all winter here plowing, bearings are still there.
since he has above average OP there should not be a problem.
That's interesting. What oil temperature does it get up to while plowing?
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: 3311
You seriously want to run a 20w in a BB Chevy which you use as a tow vehicle? If you want to go thin doesn't Shell have a 0w10 coming out? That will work even better than a 20w.
What does that have to do with anything? If he is getting the recommended PSI with a 20WT motor oil which I willing to bet my lunch on that his 30WT motor oil has sheared to in about 700 miles his into OCI he can use a 5W-20 with no problems.
Oil pressure has next to nothing to do with the oil film thickness in the bearings. In the vast majority of cases, a 30-weight oil will provide a thicker oil film than a 20-weight oil, and will protect your engine better under conditions of high load and temperature.
Not when it is a 5W-20 due to shearing.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: 3311
You seriously want to run a 20w in a BB Chevy which you use as a tow vehicle? If you want to go thin doesn't Shell have a 0w10 coming out? That will work even better than a 20w.
What does that have to do with anything? If he is getting the recommended PSI with a 20WT motor oil which I willing to bet my lunch on that his 30WT motor oil has sheared to in about 700 miles his into OCI he can use a 5W-20 with no problems.
Oil pressure has next to nothing to do with the oil film thickness in the bearings. In the vast majority of cases, a 30-weight oil will provide a thicker oil film than a 20-weight oil, and will protect your engine better under conditions of high load and temperature.
Not when it is a 5W-20 due to shearing.
Originally Posted By: bryceban
Originally Posted By: cchase
I would definitely NOT run a 20-weight in a BBC engine. Or a SBC for that matter. These engines would prefer a 40-weight over a 20-weight.
This
+1. No way I'd run anything thinner than a 30-weight in one of these.
In fact, if I actually owned one, I'd run a 5W-40 HDEO in it. It's one of the few engines out there that really WILL have problems with too-thin oil.
Originally Posted By: cchase
I would definitely NOT run a 20-weight in a BBC engine. Or a SBC for that matter. These engines would prefer a 40-weight over a 20-weight.
This
+1. No way I'd run anything thinner than a 30-weight in one of these.
In fact, if I actually owned one, I'd run a 5W-40 HDEO in it. It's one of the few engines out there that really WILL have problems with too-thin oil.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: 3311
You seriously want to run a 20w in a BB Chevy which you use as a tow vehicle? If you want to go thin doesn't Shell have a 0w10 coming out? That will work even better than a 20w.
What does that have to do with anything? If he is getting the recommended PSI with a 20WT motor oil which I willing to bet my lunch on that his 30WT motor oil has sheared to in about 700 miles his into OCI he can use a 5W-20 with no problems.
Oil pressure has next to nothing to do with the oil film thickness in the bearings. In the vast majority of cases, a 30-weight oil will provide a thicker oil film than a 20-weight oil, and will protect your engine better under conditions of high load and temperature.
Not when it is a 5W-20 due to shearing.
I think the shearing argument is overused on BITOG. The fact of the matter is, to get an API certification, an oil must pass a test to demonstrate stay-in-grade shear stability. I think if you're running a good quality 5w30 syn or syn blend, shear is not a problem.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: 3311
You seriously want to run a 20w in a BB Chevy which you use as a tow vehicle? If you want to go thin doesn't Shell have a 0w10 coming out? That will work even better than a 20w.
What does that have to do with anything? If he is getting the recommended PSI with a 20WT motor oil which I willing to bet my lunch on that his 30WT motor oil has sheared to in about 700 miles his into OCI he can use a 5W-20 with no problems.
Oil pressure has next to nothing to do with the oil film thickness in the bearings. In the vast majority of cases, a 30-weight oil will provide a thicker oil film than a 20-weight oil, and will protect your engine better under conditions of high load and temperature.
Not when it is a 5W-20 due to shearing.
I think the shearing argument is overused on BITOG. The fact of the matter is, to get an API certification, an oil must pass a test to demonstrate stay-in-grade shear stability. I think if you're running a good quality 5w30 syn or syn blend, shear is not a problem.
Just because the gauge on the dash says you have adequate oil pressure doesn't mean the bearings are doing fine, or many other areas of the engine for which there is more to proper lubrication than just pressure.
I think some people on here put too much weight in that "oil 101" article when it basically states that as long as your oil pressure is within spec, run as thin as you can. There's simply more to lubrication to psi at one location in an engine.
I think some people on here put too much weight in that "oil 101" article when it basically states that as long as your oil pressure is within spec, run as thin as you can. There's simply more to lubrication to psi at one location in an engine.
You can think all you want but until you have evidance that 5w30's stay in grade which the vast majority do not. Also there is about 20 years of oil advancements since the design of this engine and you have to take in account of the improvement of VI's over the last 20 years and this engine will be fine.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
You can think all you want but until you have evidance that 5w30's stay in grade which the vast majority do not. Also there is about 20 years of oil advancements since the design of this engine and you have to take in account of the improvement of VI's over the last 20 years and this engine will be fine.
I can't speak for others experiences but over the intervals I run my 5w30's have all stayed 30's.
EDIT: Looking at my last used oil analysis a 5w20 in use for 4200 miles had a cst at 100C of 8.17 and a 5w30 in use for 6000 miles had a cst at 100C of 9.86...
You can think all you want but until you have evidance that 5w30's stay in grade which the vast majority do not. Also there is about 20 years of oil advancements since the design of this engine and you have to take in account of the improvement of VI's over the last 20 years and this engine will be fine.
I can't speak for others experiences but over the intervals I run my 5w30's have all stayed 30's.
EDIT: Looking at my last used oil analysis a 5w20 in use for 4200 miles had a cst at 100C of 8.17 and a 5w30 in use for 6000 miles had a cst at 100C of 9.86...
Last edited:
Absolutely do not run a 20 weight oil in that engine.
The 454 has an extremely high internal temperature.
I worked in heavy repair in the Oshawa truck plant for 37 years, and know all about the 454. I suggest that you run either 5w40 t6 syn,or mobil 1 5w40. Do not be afraid to run 15w40 in the hot weather,the engine will thank you for it.
gouda
The 454 has an extremely high internal temperature.
I worked in heavy repair in the Oshawa truck plant for 37 years, and know all about the 454. I suggest that you run either 5w40 t6 syn,or mobil 1 5w40. Do not be afraid to run 15w40 in the hot weather,the engine will thank you for it.
gouda
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: dave1251
You can think all you want but until you have evidance that 5w30's stay in grade which the vast majority do not. Also there is about 20 years of oil advancements since the design of this engine and you have to take in account of the improvement of VI's over the last 20 years and this engine will be fine.
I can't speak for others experiences but over the intervals I run my 5w30's have all stayed 30's.
EDIT: Looking at my last used oil analysis a 5w20 in use for 4200 miles had a cst at 100C of 8.17 and a 5w30 in use for 6000 miles had a cst at 100C of 9.86...
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mobil-1-5w30-uoa-6856mi-in-05-kia-spectra.101319/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/castrol-edge-5w30-uoa.132644/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2009-subaru-2-5i-eneos-5w30-uoa-4000mi.146798/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mobil-1-5w30-uoa-6856mi-in-05-kia-spectra.101319/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/pennzoil-ultra-5w30-4-584-2009-traverse-4-uoa.134477/
All examples of a 5w30 shearing to the 20wt range.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
You can think all you want but until you have evidance that 5w30's stay in grade which the vast majority do not. Also there is about 20 years of oil advancements since the design of this engine and you have to take in account of the improvement of VI's over the last 20 years and this engine will be fine.
I can't speak for others experiences but over the intervals I run my 5w30's have all stayed 30's.
EDIT: Looking at my last used oil analysis a 5w20 in use for 4200 miles had a cst at 100C of 8.17 and a 5w30 in use for 6000 miles had a cst at 100C of 9.86...
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mobil-1-5w30-uoa-6856mi-in-05-kia-spectra.101319/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/castrol-edge-5w30-uoa.132644/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2009-subaru-2-5i-eneos-5w30-uoa-4000mi.146798/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mobil-1-5w30-uoa-6856mi-in-05-kia-spectra.101319/
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/pennzoil-ultra-5w30-4-584-2009-traverse-4-uoa.134477/
All examples of a 5w30 shearing to the 20wt range.
Originally Posted By: gouda
Absolutely do not run a 20 weight oil in that engine.
The 454 has an extremely high internal temperature.
I worked in heavy repair in the Oshawa truck plant for 37 years, and know all about the 454. I suggest that you run either 5w40 t6 syn,or mobil 1 5w40. Do not be afraid to run 15w40 in the hot weather,the engine will thank you for it.
gouda
Even more reason to run a lighter oil. The lower the viscosity, the higher the circulation speed of the oil which equates in a higher quantity of heat being dissipated. How many thousands of miles have these engines have ran on a 5w30 that sheared to a 20WT motor oil and still run today with no problems. This is not the 60's when the best protection that could be provided with a higher viscosity oils. There is a lot of other factors to consider besides viscosity to find whats the best oil to protect your engine. Also the film strength argument is moot. What was the film strenght of a mineral SJ oil? A modern PCMO holds up better than that.
Absolutely do not run a 20 weight oil in that engine.
The 454 has an extremely high internal temperature.
I worked in heavy repair in the Oshawa truck plant for 37 years, and know all about the 454. I suggest that you run either 5w40 t6 syn,or mobil 1 5w40. Do not be afraid to run 15w40 in the hot weather,the engine will thank you for it.
gouda
Even more reason to run a lighter oil. The lower the viscosity, the higher the circulation speed of the oil which equates in a higher quantity of heat being dissipated. How many thousands of miles have these engines have ran on a 5w30 that sheared to a 20WT motor oil and still run today with no problems. This is not the 60's when the best protection that could be provided with a higher viscosity oils. There is a lot of other factors to consider besides viscosity to find whats the best oil to protect your engine. Also the film strength argument is moot. What was the film strenght of a mineral SJ oil? A modern PCMO holds up better than that.
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Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: gouda
Absolutely do not run a 20 weight oil in that engine.
The 454 has an extremely high internal temperature.
I worked in heavy repair in the Oshawa truck plant for 37 years, and know all about the 454. I suggest that you run either 5w40 t6 syn,or mobil 1 5w40. Do not be afraid to run 15w40 in the hot weather,the engine will thank you for it.
gouda
Even more reason to run a lighter oil. The lower the viscosity, the higher the circulation speed of the oil which equates in a higher quantity of heat being dissipated. How many thousands of miles have these engines have ran on a 5w30 that sheared to a 20WT motor oil and still run today with no problems. This is not the 60's when the best protection that could be provided with a higher viscosity oils. There is a lot of other factors to consider besides viscosity to find whats the best oil to protect your engine. Also the film strength argument is moot. What was the film strenght of a mineral SJ oil? A modern PCMO holds up better than that.
If this was entirely true, Ford wouldn't be spec'ing 5w50 for the GT500, Ford GT...etc.
If this was true, Mercedes, BMW....etc wouldn't be spec'ing 5w40 for their Hi-Po mills.
Oil weight is relevant.
Originally Posted By: gouda
Absolutely do not run a 20 weight oil in that engine.
The 454 has an extremely high internal temperature.
I worked in heavy repair in the Oshawa truck plant for 37 years, and know all about the 454. I suggest that you run either 5w40 t6 syn,or mobil 1 5w40. Do not be afraid to run 15w40 in the hot weather,the engine will thank you for it.
gouda
Even more reason to run a lighter oil. The lower the viscosity, the higher the circulation speed of the oil which equates in a higher quantity of heat being dissipated. How many thousands of miles have these engines have ran on a 5w30 that sheared to a 20WT motor oil and still run today with no problems. This is not the 60's when the best protection that could be provided with a higher viscosity oils. There is a lot of other factors to consider besides viscosity to find whats the best oil to protect your engine. Also the film strength argument is moot. What was the film strenght of a mineral SJ oil? A modern PCMO holds up better than that.
If this was entirely true, Ford wouldn't be spec'ing 5w50 for the GT500, Ford GT...etc.
If this was true, Mercedes, BMW....etc wouldn't be spec'ing 5w40 for their Hi-Po mills.
Oil weight is relevant.
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