I'm getting a littly antsy about my oil. I have a 2005 Honda Civic Si and it has about 3500 miles. Every day I drive about 90 miles with 45 of that being in the afternoon with temperatures at or above 100F. Reading about shoddy filters and 20w oil that may be too thin to beat the heat gets me a litte nervous. I suppose Honda oil has to be pretty good, but, I am ready to switch to a synthetic. If dino oils are better for break-in would switching to a petro synthetic be better if break-in is not complete? My gut feeling is it's as broke in as I am after working and making that drive everyday.
Think it's broke-in?
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Triple_Se7en
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Those are the exact same miles (3500) when I switched to synthetic in my last four new GM vehicle purchases. I would put 5w30 in that Honda if I lived in that hot climate. I'd probably start the Honda on Pennzoil Platinum with Amsoil running as 2nd choice. If you're willing to buy online, Schaffers is supposedly an excellent oil also. Can easily find a dealer here at BITOG.
If you're worried about the factory-fill oil, spend a little money and pull a sample for analysis. I'm sure you'll find that the oil is performing well. At least that's what I found when I drew a sample from my K20A3 engine (nearly the same as yours) at 5000mi.
I think you'll be very pleased with how well 20-weights work in your engine. Prove it to yourself and relax.
BTW, my engine mostly broke-in somewhere between 7,500 and 12,000 miles. Wear metals slowly trended downward for many thousands of miles afterwards.
I think you'll be very pleased with how well 20-weights work in your engine. Prove it to yourself and relax.
BTW, my engine mostly broke-in somewhere between 7,500 and 12,000 miles. Wear metals slowly trended downward for many thousands of miles afterwards.
Your engine is virtually 'broke in'.
Sure, there is a little way to go, yet.
In your region, a 5-30 would not be out of place.
Sure, there is a little way to go, yet.
In your region, a 5-30 would not be out of place.
Sounds like a lot of highway miles:
- No, break-in isn't complete
- Leave factory fill in till 5k miles (4 cylinder & highway miles, if it were a 6 and around town miles mostly I'd say dump it)
- Run dino (Honda oil?) at least next two fills at 3k OCI's, then go syn.
- Stick with 5W-20 and enjoy the quicker spin up in that rev happy sucker.
- No, break-in isn't complete
- Leave factory fill in till 5k miles (4 cylinder & highway miles, if it were a 6 and around town miles mostly I'd say dump it)
- Run dino (Honda oil?) at least next two fills at 3k OCI's, then go syn.
- Stick with 5W-20 and enjoy the quicker spin up in that rev happy sucker.
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If you want to switch to a synth ...go ahead. There's no magic beyond good design in the Honda engines. You'll suffer no ill effects of doing this now. The only worries that anyone ever had with switching to a synth is ring seating. If you've had any seating issues ...they would surely be apparent ..they aren't ..you don't have them.
I don't quite understand the strict adherence to the Honda recommendations ..other then they have produced nothing but good results. There is nothing that I can see that implies that exceeding them has ever produced any less then the same stellar wear characteristics. I can't see anything in a Honda that would make me desire to have machining debris circulating around inside if for a spec'd amount of time ...when the same action in a piece of domestic iron would have everyone taking 5 years off of the end of their life in stress.
That is, if it's taboo in a Honda ..it should be taboo in anything. Aside from precision machining ...there's no magic to a Honda engine. They just adhere to the tenet of the best value to the customer without endulging any paranoia ..the other manufacturers do as well, but you don't believe them.
I mean, aside from success (actually lack of failure), is there any reason that this has some magic to it that would not be just as applicable in any engine?? Can anyone cite an instance where doing the same factory recommended procedure in a domestic engine has resulted in less then favorable results? Has anyone reported less then favorable results with violating this recommendation in a Honda? It just seems to me that people find this a marvelous event..and like to see it occur ..but are afraid with any other engine. I'm just trying to embrace the mystique.
I don't quite understand the strict adherence to the Honda recommendations ..other then they have produced nothing but good results. There is nothing that I can see that implies that exceeding them has ever produced any less then the same stellar wear characteristics. I can't see anything in a Honda that would make me desire to have machining debris circulating around inside if for a spec'd amount of time ...when the same action in a piece of domestic iron would have everyone taking 5 years off of the end of their life in stress.
That is, if it's taboo in a Honda ..it should be taboo in anything. Aside from precision machining ...there's no magic to a Honda engine. They just adhere to the tenet of the best value to the customer without endulging any paranoia ..the other manufacturers do as well, but you don't believe them.
I mean, aside from success (actually lack of failure), is there any reason that this has some magic to it that would not be just as applicable in any engine?? Can anyone cite an instance where doing the same factory recommended procedure in a domestic engine has resulted in less then favorable results? Has anyone reported less then favorable results with violating this recommendation in a Honda? It just seems to me that people find this a marvelous event..and like to see it occur ..but are afraid with any other engine. I'm just trying to embrace the mystique.
Well everyone has an opinion so here is mine, do what you want with it.
I half agree with ex_MGB,
Break in is not complete, but at 3500 dump th e factory fill. There is enough break in lube on the metal to complete the break in.
Do run regular non-syth for the next two oil changes at short intervals, then go to full synth if you want. instead of running 5-20 I would run 0-30 probably. For the short change interval s of conventional 5-20 or 5-30 of your favorite, your choice.
I half agree with ex_MGB,
Break in is not complete, but at 3500 dump th e factory fill. There is enough break in lube on the metal to complete the break in.
Do run regular non-syth for the next two oil changes at short intervals, then go to full synth if you want. instead of running 5-20 I would run 0-30 probably. For the short change interval s of conventional 5-20 or 5-30 of your favorite, your choice.
If you can you match the new oil to factory fill when you change it, It won't matter if you change it now, or wait.
Use oil like that for 15,000 miles.
Use oil like that for 15,000 miles.
Triple_Se7en
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Boy...
In this age of digital micro-spec technology... used by all major vehicle manufacturers with engine-regard nowadays... I would think, just what basically standard engine with a highway/city mix is not broken in at 3500 miles???
Are you telling me that when I changed to syn at 3500 miles with my last four vehicles, that the rings are not yet seated at 100-200K? What damage have I done?
I can see an "out-of-spec" engine taking longer, but I can't comprehend any reason why a synthetic oil would be more harmful to an engine shedding minute metals (per-say) than a dino?
In this age of digital micro-spec technology... used by all major vehicle manufacturers with engine-regard nowadays... I would think, just what basically standard engine with a highway/city mix is not broken in at 3500 miles???
Are you telling me that when I changed to syn at 3500 miles with my last four vehicles, that the rings are not yet seated at 100-200K? What damage have I done?
I can see an "out-of-spec" engine taking longer, but I can't comprehend any reason why a synthetic oil would be more harmful to an engine shedding minute metals (per-say) than a dino?
TRIP-7, no you didn't/won't really damage your engine by going to syn at 3500 mi, or maybe sooner. That engine will still be throwing off wear metals and one simple oil change mightnot get all the debris out of there, so why waste the money on a syn early when you should /are going to dump it again in a couple thousand miles anyway.
I think the multiple early OC gets you the cleanest well started engine with the least expense. But hey it is your money and your engine, do what you want, i could give a flying fig.
I think the multiple early OC gets you the cleanest well started engine with the least expense. But hey it is your money and your engine, do what you want, i could give a flying fig.
After reading the post I've decided to hold off until 5000 miles and probably change to Havoline 5w20 for a couple of 2500 change intervals using NAPA Gold Filters I have already. I'm really not setup for taking a sample at this time, but, I did get the Blackstone kit for sending in a sample last week and have an uninstalled Fram oil change kit to replace the oil plug after the first change. When I change out to synthetic I have been looking hard as Syntec if I continue with 20w. Its' viscosity is about as high as I've seen in a 20w oil. I really would prefer running Mobil 1 EP 5w30 if I knew I wouldn't run into any warranty problems.
I guess it depends on what's considered broken in. The rings are seated so go ahead and change. I think that the motor may show elevated levels of wear in UOAs for a longer period if you switch too soon. I also don't think that's a problem as the total amount of wear shown by 30k mi won't be higher. It will just be a shallower curve getting to a constant. Short term, the motor may not feel as smooth or tight as soon but long term it may actually last 10k longer. No biggy.
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The break-in on my Audi took about 50k miles. Well, at least engine performance increased steadily until I hit about 50k miles. I haven't noticed any decrease in performance since, so I suppose the engine is either still breaking in, albeit less, or hasn't worn to the point of losing any power.
Yes.
There is a notion that Honda Motor Co., uses Sperm Whale Oil, in their Initial Oil Fills, at their World Wide manufacturing facilities. Toyota may also use this formulation as well as all of Japan's industries.
Maybe it's their form of the GC Elves.
That's why they want you to keep the initial oil fill in for 10000 miles or is it 12000?
Maybe it's their form of the GC Elves.
That's why they want you to keep the initial oil fill in for 10000 miles or is it 12000?
Sperm Whale Oil? Isn't that what antislip or positrac additive is made out of?
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That's sorta my take on it....
..but that's not the situation here, is it? There is a reinforced belief that retaining the original oil in a Honda ...for up to 10k miles .. is the absolute best, and only, thing to do. Now aside from the factory fill having a high dose of moly, what's the unique characteristic or method to this would you be upsetting by swapping out to a synth @ 2500-3500 and just going on with whatever OCI you're going to do? I mean, no one seems to follow factory recommendations in any other engine ..why just a Honda??
It used to be in GM DEXRON ATF, in the 50's and 60's before it was banned to help the Whale Hunting Ban, for the survival of the Whales. The Japanese, have returned to hunting them for commerce. Just my cheap shot at them.
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I guess it depends on what's considered broken in. The rings are seated so go ahead and change. I think that the motor may show elevated levels of wear in UOAs for a longer period if you switch too soon.
Okay, so the current school of thought is that you shorten the normal 20k +/- break-in period to 10k? Okay, I'll go with that, but I'm still a little vague on why this wouldn't be a preferred technique with every engine. I guess since Honda engines appear to show virtually no wear after a certain point ..it's hard to argue with the factory rec. Has anyone done this with any other engine? That is, strictly by the book??
Okay, so the current school of thought is that you shorten the normal 20k +/- break-in period to 10k? Okay, I'll go with that, but I'm still a little vague on why this wouldn't be a preferred technique with every engine. I guess since Honda engines appear to show virtually no wear after a certain point ..it's hard to argue with the factory rec. Has anyone done this with any other engine? That is, strictly by the book??
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