If I broken into someone's garage and changed their 5/10W30 with 5W20 they would not know the difference.
Thicker oil vs thin oil....again!
- Thread starter wolf_06
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: dave1251
If I broken into someone's garage and changed their 5/10W30 with 5W20 they would not know the difference.
I agree the differences are very minimal... but yet this website's crew just LOOOVES to over analyze.
If I broken into someone's garage and changed their 5/10W30 with 5W20 they would not know the difference.
I agree the differences are very minimal... but yet this website's crew just LOOOVES to over analyze.
Originally Posted By: WMSmotorhead
La la la la la......
Just to be a weenie... in the next few week's my Wife's car is coming due for service. I'm going to switch her from the long running (5 years) of 5w-20 and put some 5w30 and NOT TELL HER. We'll see if she finds ANY difference at all.
I say she'll likely never notice the difference.
Then maybe we can stop the silliness.
this post is awesome.... really laughed hard on this.... but I am kinda curious if she notices anything... although I'm with you I don't think she'll feel any difference.
La la la la la......
Just to be a weenie... in the next few week's my Wife's car is coming due for service. I'm going to switch her from the long running (5 years) of 5w-20 and put some 5w30 and NOT TELL HER. We'll see if she finds ANY difference at all.
I say she'll likely never notice the difference.
Then maybe we can stop the silliness.
this post is awesome.... really laughed hard on this.... but I am kinda curious if she notices anything... although I'm with you I don't think she'll feel any difference.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
If I broken into someone's garage and changed their 5/10W30 with 5W20 they would not know the difference.
I would because I have oil pressure gauges in my cars and run high VI oils. But without an OP gauge I would not likely notice the difference in the summer but I likely would at start-up temp's below 0C in the winter, especially a 10w30 conventional.
But whether you can notice the increased oil drag on start-up or not isn't the point.
The point is which oil provides better overall lubrication? And if a 20wt oil is specified that's the oil will.
Abide by the lubrication axiom; "As thin as possible, as thick as necessary".
If I broken into someone's garage and changed their 5/10W30 with 5W20 they would not know the difference.
I would because I have oil pressure gauges in my cars and run high VI oils. But without an OP gauge I would not likely notice the difference in the summer but I likely would at start-up temp's below 0C in the winter, especially a 10w30 conventional.
But whether you can notice the increased oil drag on start-up or not isn't the point.
The point is which oil provides better overall lubrication? And if a 20wt oil is specified that's the oil will.
Abide by the lubrication axiom; "As thin as possible, as thick as necessary".
Hi,
for those interested, Australia has always had a very good selection of quality lubricants from Asia, Europe, US and those blended locally
Castrol's Formula SLX 0w30 was introduced here around 1997. One of the first Countries to get it outside of Germany!
Like in the US many people here stick to what they know and are often off put by our high ambient temperaturs in some locations. I live in such an area and remain a strong believer in the "use the lightest lubricant recommended by the engine Manufacturer" philosophy. Its served me very well indeed for many decades and millions upon millions of kilometers both here and in Europe!!
for those interested, Australia has always had a very good selection of quality lubricants from Asia, Europe, US and those blended locally
Castrol's Formula SLX 0w30 was introduced here around 1997. One of the first Countries to get it outside of Germany!
Like in the US many people here stick to what they know and are often off put by our high ambient temperaturs in some locations. I live in such an area and remain a strong believer in the "use the lightest lubricant recommended by the engine Manufacturer" philosophy. Its served me very well indeed for many decades and millions upon millions of kilometers both here and in Europe!!
Originally Posted By: Solarent
What Mr. Ballentine fails to mention in his article is the role that new additive combinations are playing in controlling wear in thinner oils. In terms of viscosity to maintain the proper oil pressure, CATERHAM can probably speak to this better than I can, but as far as I am concerned the proper viscosity oil for your engine has more to do with engine design than anything else. Thicker Oil - depending on the engine design is not going to automatically give you better protection. Viscosity has much less to do with protecting wear now when you factor in bearing material and design, additives and other factors of the elastohydrodynamic regime.
...is going to make the consumer market a bit of a mess I think, but interesting because basically what the API and SAE are saying is that using thinner oils in older engines to obtain fuel economy improvements may not be good for those engines.
Solarent i'm not one to clamor for evidence as an entry ticket to discussion, i know in certain circumstances we have to make decisions without clear evidence and in those situations i want to remain open-minded to counter positions and evidence. I think for some cars and driving styles, a 1-step increase in viscosity will provide better protection unless the 20 wt add pack is vastly superior, but that's not so if you compare within brands. I see your point about better materials but thats another issue and also very difficult to prove.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
...Secondly, the assumption that more "protection" will be provided is often second guessing the oil grade recommendations of the manufacturer. Technically a heavier oil doesn't provide more "protection" but rather a greater viscosity reserve in the event of high oil temp's. The heavier oil is totally counter-productive if the higher oils temp's required to justify it's use does not occur.
It worth reminding all that when a 20wt oil is specified a very large viscosity reserve is still present to deal with higher than normal oil temperatures. Exceeding these viscosity reserves virtually always entails engine abuse such as exceeding the OCI, low oil level, using a low quality (non API) oil and/or exceeding the load carrying/towing capacity of the vehicle, something anal BITOG members would never do.
Caterham i respect you for the HTHS thread and your other work but i disagree because towing a load that is a bit under the rated spec will also increase stress and heat in a very large way compared to normal driving. Also racing and high torque/hp applications that many bitog members also drive.
you know the jump from 20 to 30 is very small compared to 30 to 40 (a 40% increase in visc vs 20 to 30 about 10%). So i would say the temp increase in 30 vs. 20 is also small compared to other jumps, but like you said, "does it justify it's use?" I think it would in certain apps but i have no proof.
This seems to be a matter of trusting the manufacturers with their billions in resources and engineering. Yes, it may sound presumptuous or foolish to question them but there are other business and political considerations in their recommendations. It's not NASA where they need to have multiple failsafes and way conservative numbers for the high degree of danger. So yes, in typical bitog fashion we are dissecting fine points here. gotta love it
What Mr. Ballentine fails to mention in his article is the role that new additive combinations are playing in controlling wear in thinner oils. In terms of viscosity to maintain the proper oil pressure, CATERHAM can probably speak to this better than I can, but as far as I am concerned the proper viscosity oil for your engine has more to do with engine design than anything else. Thicker Oil - depending on the engine design is not going to automatically give you better protection. Viscosity has much less to do with protecting wear now when you factor in bearing material and design, additives and other factors of the elastohydrodynamic regime.
...is going to make the consumer market a bit of a mess I think, but interesting because basically what the API and SAE are saying is that using thinner oils in older engines to obtain fuel economy improvements may not be good for those engines.
Solarent i'm not one to clamor for evidence as an entry ticket to discussion, i know in certain circumstances we have to make decisions without clear evidence and in those situations i want to remain open-minded to counter positions and evidence. I think for some cars and driving styles, a 1-step increase in viscosity will provide better protection unless the 20 wt add pack is vastly superior, but that's not so if you compare within brands. I see your point about better materials but thats another issue and also very difficult to prove.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
...Secondly, the assumption that more "protection" will be provided is often second guessing the oil grade recommendations of the manufacturer. Technically a heavier oil doesn't provide more "protection" but rather a greater viscosity reserve in the event of high oil temp's. The heavier oil is totally counter-productive if the higher oils temp's required to justify it's use does not occur.
It worth reminding all that when a 20wt oil is specified a very large viscosity reserve is still present to deal with higher than normal oil temperatures. Exceeding these viscosity reserves virtually always entails engine abuse such as exceeding the OCI, low oil level, using a low quality (non API) oil and/or exceeding the load carrying/towing capacity of the vehicle, something anal BITOG members would never do.
Caterham i respect you for the HTHS thread and your other work but i disagree because towing a load that is a bit under the rated spec will also increase stress and heat in a very large way compared to normal driving. Also racing and high torque/hp applications that many bitog members also drive.
you know the jump from 20 to 30 is very small compared to 30 to 40 (a 40% increase in visc vs 20 to 30 about 10%). So i would say the temp increase in 30 vs. 20 is also small compared to other jumps, but like you said, "does it justify it's use?" I think it would in certain apps but i have no proof.
This seems to be a matter of trusting the manufacturers with their billions in resources and engineering. Yes, it may sound presumptuous or foolish to question them but there are other business and political considerations in their recommendations. It's not NASA where they need to have multiple failsafes and way conservative numbers for the high degree of danger. So yes, in typical bitog fashion we are dissecting fine points here. gotta love it
Originally Posted By: Solarent
I just was reading yesterday about the ILSAC GF-6 spec which will be coming out in 2016....
Thanks for tossing that out there without a link for us oil nerds.
I just was reading yesterday about the ILSAC GF-6 spec which will be coming out in 2016....
Thanks for tossing that out there without a link for us oil nerds.
Originally Posted By: WMSmotorhead
...
I say she'll likely never notice the difference.
Then maybe we can stop the silliness.
Are you implying that If a non-professional does not notice a grade jump then we have proof that there exist no difference? I hope this is a stab at sarcasm. My wife didn't even notice when her 1996 subaru impreza wagon was double filled by the dealer (8+ qts) then I noticed a few days later when volunteering to drive to the inlaws for a birthday party. Imentioned to her when driving, "Something is wrong with the car - it feels like We are towing a 2000lb trailer." My wife said she did not notice anything. So much for spousal qualitative judgement.
...
I say she'll likely never notice the difference.
Then maybe we can stop the silliness.
Are you implying that If a non-professional does not notice a grade jump then we have proof that there exist no difference? I hope this is a stab at sarcasm. My wife didn't even notice when her 1996 subaru impreza wagon was double filled by the dealer (8+ qts) then I noticed a few days later when volunteering to drive to the inlaws for a birthday party. Imentioned to her when driving, "Something is wrong with the car - it feels like We are towing a 2000lb trailer." My wife said she did not notice anything. So much for spousal qualitative judgement.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: WMSmotorhead
...
I say she'll likely never notice the difference.
Then maybe we can stop the silliness.
Are you implying that If a non-professional does not notice a grade jump then we have proof that there exist no difference? I hope this is a stab at sarcasm. My wife didn't even notice when her 1996 subaru impreza wagon was double filled by the dealer (8+ qts) then I noticed a few days later when volunteering to drive to the inlaws for a birthday party. Imentioned to her when driving, "Something is wrong with the car - it feels like We are towing a 2000lb trailer." My wife said she did not notice anything. So much for spousal qualitative judgement.
ARCO,
Noticed in your signature your running Defy, a high mileage oil in a brand new engine with less than 5k on it. Can you explain your judgement on that?
Originally Posted By: WMSmotorhead
...
I say she'll likely never notice the difference.
Then maybe we can stop the silliness.
Are you implying that If a non-professional does not notice a grade jump then we have proof that there exist no difference? I hope this is a stab at sarcasm. My wife didn't even notice when her 1996 subaru impreza wagon was double filled by the dealer (8+ qts) then I noticed a few days later when volunteering to drive to the inlaws for a birthday party. Imentioned to her when driving, "Something is wrong with the car - it feels like We are towing a 2000lb trailer." My wife said she did not notice anything. So much for spousal qualitative judgement.
ARCO,
Noticed in your signature your running Defy, a high mileage oil in a brand new engine with less than 5k on it. Can you explain your judgement on that?
You really do not want to know, that will start a complete new thread.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
You really do not want to know, that will start a complete new thread.
Hahaha....Oh man.
You really do not want to know, that will start a complete new thread.
Hahaha....Oh man.
My wife noticed when I switched out the 2010 4 cylinder TSX for a 2012 335i Sedan. She is the observant type.
In the OP's car, I don't think racing or towing would be an issue.
In the OP's car, I don't think racing or towing would be an issue.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
ARCO,
Noticed in your signature your running Defy, a high mileage oil in a brand new engine with less than 5k on it. Can you explain your judgement on that?
Ive had a hard time getting cars through the break-in period as I drive hard. Thinking was the marginally improved robustness of this oil with the somewht higher % hyper zdp EP pack would help - and it appears to in this instance. I AWAYS have issues when going form the highly additised FF to an ILASC on the first OCI of a new engine. Must be my super aggressive driving style. YMMV.
ARCO,
Noticed in your signature your running Defy, a high mileage oil in a brand new engine with less than 5k on it. Can you explain your judgement on that?
Ive had a hard time getting cars through the break-in period as I drive hard. Thinking was the marginally improved robustness of this oil with the somewht higher % hyper zdp EP pack would help - and it appears to in this instance. I AWAYS have issues when going form the highly additised FF to an ILASC on the first OCI of a new engine. Must be my super aggressive driving style. YMMV.
Originally Posted By: WMSmotorhead
Originally Posted By: dave1251
If I broken into someone's garage and changed their 5/10W30 with 5W20 they would not know the difference.
I agree the differences are very minimal... but yet this website's crew just LOOOVES to over analyze.
I would know the difference.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
If I broken into someone's garage and changed their 5/10W30 with 5W20 they would not know the difference.
I agree the differences are very minimal... but yet this website's crew just LOOOVES to over analyze.
I would know the difference.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked