They built them, and no one came...

[wander2039]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I agree there. I don't think hatchbacks will sell well, at least they haven't in the past. That's why we don't get them or I guess as many 2-doors either.


As I stated they didn't build the right ones. Finally they brought over the Fiesta and from I've seen and heard is selling well.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
All else equal a larger car can absorb more energy and has more room to crumple than a smaller car in the real world.

Exactly.

And when comparing a new car to an older one, all else is not equal.

This reminds me of when an elderly woman in a new Crumple Zone Equipt Civic rear ended me at a stop sign, I was in my 88 E-150, which is old technology. To say her Civic was wrecked would be an understatement. I had the rubber on my rear bumper get a small mark on it. She needed a hood, radiator, bumper, air bag, tow, etc. Then she copped an attitude about me stopping for the stop sign, and wanted me to pay. She asked why I stopped. I laughed, and a cell call to the police informed her that she was 100% to blame, and was lucky all the damage was to her Civic, and that I didn't complain of back and neck pains.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I agree there. I don't think hatchbacks will sell well, at least they haven't in the past. That's why we don't get them or I guess as many 2-doors either.

MINI USA disagrees.

 

[Autobahn88]

Hatchsbacks sell well around here also. Mazda has sold a pile of Mazda3s around here. Same with the golf. Hatchbacks make great sense. I have owned many in my time and the amount of stuff that you can put in a small hatch is amazing. I think that people's attitude twards small cars will change given time. You can't compare a small car today to a small car 20 years ago. Todays cars have a lot more room then similar cars of the past. I always say that you cannot control the price of gas but you can control how much gas you use.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
GM was desperate for customers for what they perceived would be an unpopular vehicle before one even hit the road. It had hoped to lure more if buyers subtracted the $7,500 from the $41,000 sticker price. Instead, as Consumer Reports found out, the car was very pricey. The version they tested cost $43,700 plus a $5,000 dealer markup ("Don't worry," I can hear the salesperson saying, "you'll get more than that back in your tax credit!"), or a whopping $48,700 minus the credit.

This is one reason that Volt sales are anemic: 326 in December, 321 in January, and 281 in February. GM announced a production run of 100,000 in the first two years. Who is going to buy all these cars?

http://www.forbes.com/2011/03/16/chevy-volt-ayn-rand-opinions-patrick-michaels.html

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: Autobahn88
Hatchsbacks sell well around here also. Mazda has sold a pile of Mazda3s around here. Same with the golf. Hatchbacks make great sense. I have owned many in my time and the amount of stuff that you can put in a small hatch is amazing. I think that people's attitude twards small cars will change given time. You can't compare a small car today to a small car 20 years ago. Todays cars have a lot more room then similar cars of the past. I always say that you cannot control the price of gas but you can control how much gas you use.

But at the same time, Mazda discontinued the Mazda6 hatchback and station wagon.
GM makes a Cruze 5-door...we don't get it in the US, but they make one.
The Fiestas in the commercials are usually hatchbacks, but you go by the dealer and they are almost all sedans.
The rest of the world gets a Civic 3-door. The US doesn't.

The Germans are very fond of high content 5-doors. US consumers don't appear to be or the automakers do not think that we are.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
The Germans are very fond of high content 5-doors. US consumers don't appear to be or the automakers do not think that we are.

I suspect we are still reeling from the ugly, boatish, and boring station wagons of the 70s and 80s.

 

[slickrocko1]

There is way too many pages to read them all, but I have to exclaim...my Dodge 1 ton, 3500 ram gets a great 21mpg on the highway. With 4 BIG doors, lots of creature comfort, enough power to tow 20,000 lbs, and take my Kids, and Grand Kids camping, and to 4-H, Western Pleasure shows, FFA, and parades or fairs. The whole bunch want to ride in the truck cause it has a better A/C, and better tune box than their Dad's minivan. I still get about 12-14 mpg with 20,000 lbs, so that makes it more efficient than driving three or four cars with horse trailers, getting maybe 16mpg, and being a real danger in a collision or trailer accident. Yeah, I do live out in "boonieville", and drive 54 miles round trip to the market or store once a week. So don't try to sell me on some "tiny speed bump" of a car that won't carry the load of three teenage girls, their assorted tack/clothes/food/water jugs/ show outfits/and keep them safer in case of an accident.

Besides we can stay over nite if it gets too late, and have T.V. too if I use the genset. ( which I run on propane)

 

[ChuckBerry]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Okay, since you mentioned it, I'll go with the smaller Malibu vs the larger built on frame car that can "absorb more energy and has more room to crumple":


I admitted that the newest Taurus would fare better than the Fit. There's just far more car there to absorb the energy of a crash and the same passenger compartment safety cage (on a larger scale). I was just debunking the whole "mass = safety" myth

oh, and crashing the 59 Chevrolet did make me a little sad.


I've been saying this for years, and this video is solid gold proof of my assertion...put me in ANY modern vehicle for a crash, no matter how small, that meets U.S. safety standards, rather than ANY "classic" car. Decades of safety engineering can prevent gruesome death or hideous injury.

You'll leave a good looking pile of debris in a Bel Air...hope they can still use your dental records to identify you.

 

[sciphi]

A Cummins turbodiesel pickup should get pretty good fuel economy unloaded. It also has advantages of a higher energy content fuel and a turbo to help it make torque at a low RPM.

 

[rslifkin]

Rocko - It sounds like you're exactly the kind of guy who actually has a reason to have a truck like that, rather than someone who bought it to drive to work, and wouldn't even dream of putting a dirty shoe in the bed, but thinks they "need" a truck.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Rocko - It sounds like you're exactly the kind of guy who actually has a reason to have a truck like that, rather than someone who bought it to drive to work, and wouldn't even dream of putting a dirty shoe in the bed, but thinks they "need" a truck.

I thought it was just a Ft Worth thing.

All these "windshield cowboys" that "need" a truck. But the bed's never been used and there is no hitch or trailer lighting plug on the back of the truck.

Their jeans are perfectly starched and their boots have never seen a single cow pattie. The closest to off-road they've ever seen is the potholed parking lot by Billy Bob's.

If you do have a good use for a truck, and from his description and photo he does, awesome.

 

[sciphi]

There's nothing wrong with buying and using a vehicle for its intended purpose, such as using a truck for things a car can't do, such as tow 3 horses. Now the folks who have a truck or SUV for the image do irritate me.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
There's nothing wrong with buying and using a vehicle for its intended purpose, such as using a truck for things a car can't do, such as tow 3 horses. Now the folks who have a truck or SUV for the image do irritate me.


I think that's part of why hatchbacks are not so popular in NA and why many of the models that offer a 3 or 5 door option overseas are sedans only here.

John Doe is looking for a basic grocery getter for Jane to do just that and other suburban housewife stuff where such a car is all that's needed, and excellent from a fuel economy perspective. When they get in one and take it for a test drive and find themselves surrounded by vehicles far larger and heavier on both sides, one or the other get cold feet. So they settle on a sedan or SUV instead and now Jane feels safe, and/or John feels her and Jr. will be then if they'd gotten the too smaller alternative.

Maybe that is reality. Or maybe that is the reality the automakers believe, so they don't bring these models here because they believe they won't sell.

-Spyder

 

[LS2JSTS]

Maybe reality is just that, reality. The potential market for 3 and 5 door hatches is younger and smaller than the market for other segments. No conspriracy or convoluted theorys required, it just is what it is. Historically Americans prefer something else, at least in larger market numbers.

Don't get me wrong, I love small hatches. My 02 SVT Focus was a 3 door hatch, and you could get that in a 5 door as well in 2003-2004 iirc. My next small car will be the new Focus ST in 3 door hatch form.

It's not like there aren't hatches available on the market. They sell decently, but nothing that stands out. Trust me, if the manufacturers saw them flying off the floor and in high demand, there would be a stampede to bring more options to market.

 

[KrisZ]

Quote:
Trust me, if the manufacturers saw them flying off the floor and in high demand, there would be a stampede to bring more options to market.

Exactly!! in Canada, where small cars are more popular due to higher gas prices, there are plenty of hatches on the road. You see plenty of Mazda 3's, Versas, Fits, Golfs, heck even some wagons are fairly popular like Volvo V40 and the new Jetta wagon.

There is no conspiracy to sell only certain types of vehicles in US, people truly buy what they want and manufacturers deliver.

 

[sciphi]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Maybe reality is just that, reality. The potential market for 3 and 5 door hatches is younger and smaller than the market for other segments....


That too. Most people in their 20's who a hatch appeals to are getting started in their careers/buried in student loan debt and can't afford a new car.

From what I've read, apparently there's a backlash growing against SUV's among younger folk with the means to buy a new car. It's just that younger people are much less likely to buy a new car than their parents, so it hasn't made a significant impact in new-car-buying patterns yet.

 

[eljefino]

I think the makers want people to get profitable SUVs in lieu of hatches.

Saturn had a nice S-series wagon that was discontinued two years earlier than the rest of the line. Replaced by a larger wagon and the VUE.

Hyundai sold elantra wagons in the late 90s then stopped them for a while when the santa fe or whatever came out. (They're back now though!

)

Ford cut the trailer towing rating of the crown vic in 1996 from 5000 pounds to 1500. (And the panther platform has stuck around a lot longer!) The conspiracy theorists think they wanted to sell explorers and f150s for that. They also dumped the CV station wagon in 1990. At least GM had the awesome Roadmaster "whale" wagon until 1996 with its corvette motor!

Then there's the sad story of saab, inheriting GM platforms that weren't stiff enough for hatchbacks, offending current fans...

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
I think the makers want people to get profitable SUVs in lieu of hatches.

Saturn had a nice S-series wagon that was discontinued two years earlier than the rest of the line. Replaced by a larger wagon and the VUE.

Hyundai sold elantra wagons in the late 90s then stopped them for a while when the santa fe or whatever came out. (They're back now though!

)

Ford cut the trailer towing rating of the crown vic in 1996 from 5000 pounds to 1500. (And the panther platform has stuck around a lot longer!) The conspiracy theorists think they wanted to sell explorers and f150s for that. They also dumped the CV station wagon in 1990. At least GM had the awesome Roadmaster "whale" wagon until 1996 with its corvette motor!

Then there's the sad story of saab, inheriting GM platforms that weren't stiff enough for hatchbacks, offending current fans...

I think you're right that the manufacturers do try to direct folks into more expensive and larger vehicles. That new small GM SUV that's only available to rental agencies so it doesn't cut into their other more expensive SUV sales is an example.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Quote:
Trust me, if the manufacturers saw them flying off the floor and in high demand, there would be a stampede to bring more options to market.



Exactly!! in Canada, where small cars are more popular due to higher gas prices, there are plenty of hatches on the road. You see plenty of Mazda 3's, Versas, Fits, Golfs, heck even some wagons are fairly popular like Volvo V40 and the new Jetta wagon.

There is no conspiracy to sell only certain types of vehicles in US, people truly buy what they want and manufacturers deliver.


With gas here at 1.33/L (about $5/gallon US) this week, our reality here is different than it is south of the border. Due to cold Canadian winters, and their harsh effects on existing battery life in our present technology, hybrids and such are not an option, so we have a lot of smaller sedans (my car and its size counterparts from other manufacturers, is the most popular here) and hatchbacks.

SUVs are not very common, and mostly the lighter types (easier on gas). There are a few very big pickups, but they are mostly commercial or work trucks; not many on the road just for vanity's sake.

There are more minivans than SUVS here.

Gas prices are a powerful force in mainstream economic choices when it comes to what people drive, as well as other factors mentioned.

Of course, too, we are a smaller market than the US so our choices are pretty similar - we just tend to choose a little differently due to much higher fuel prices.

-Spyder