The truth about CVT's (at least Subaru's) and cats

[PandaBear]

It depends on the whole system and who makes it. Personally, I'd be careful about trusting Nissan and Jatco, but when Toyota is behind it on something they sell 1M a year volume, I think I can trust it a little better.

Past history and reputation matters.

 

[sloinker]

I kind of disagree about the OP's points. Since we are resuscitating an old post. When you see CVT vehicles tested for 0-60 mph times they are always a second or more slower than equivalent vehicles with torque converter or automated manual transmissions. So finding the "sweet" spot on the power band and outrunning other transmissions does not hold up using a stopwatch. I just don't like the way they drive, the feeling is strange and the harmonic buzz can be disconcerting. I haven't driven one in a couple years. maybe they are better now and the fake shifts will fool me away from the rubber band acceleration feeling I remember so well.

 

[Skippy722]

I kind of disagree about the OP's points. Since we are resuscitating an old post. When you see CVT vehicles tested for 0-60 mph times they are always a second or more slower than equivalent vehicles with torque converter or automated manual transmissions. So finding the "sweet" spot on the power band and outrunning other transmissions does not hold up using a stopwatch. I just don't like the way they drive, the feeling is strange and the harmonic buzz can be disconcerting. I haven't driven one in a couple years. maybe they are better now and the fake shifts will fool me away from the rubber band acceleration feeling I remember so well.

I won’t lie, the 2018 Altima rental I had and the 2020 Kia Forte rental my BiL had didn’t feel rubber bandy. But the simulated gears weren’t as nice feeling as my ZF 8HP70’s real gears though either.

 

[DemoFly]

It depends on the whole system and who makes it. Personally, I'd be careful about trusting Nissan and Jatco, but when Toyota is behind it on something they sell 1M a year volume, I think I can trust it a little better.

Past history and reputation matters.

Toyota Corolla Hatchback Recalled Over Transmission Issue

Toyota announced a recall of its 2019 Corolla Hatchback because of an issue with the transmission that could cause the vehicle to lose power while driving. Consumer Reports has the details of the Toyota Corolla recall.

www.consumerreports.org

Toyota belt CVTs already recalled in the new Corolla.

Drives like TRASH, too. I much preferred the CVT in the 2015 model. It was indistinguishable from a torque converter AT except for added smoothness.

 

[Slick3914]

I've learned to tolerate the CVT in the 2017 Outback we inherited. I don't find it to be very smooth, however, having a Ram 1500 with the 8 speed has shown me how good a trans can be.

 

[Pelican]

I co-developed a study that focuses on the long-term reliability of engines and transmissions. We now have over 1.8 million vehicles that have been inspected by professional mechanics.

Overall we have found CVTs to be a mixed bag. For the most part they are not nearly as reliable as conventional automatics for two reasons. First, the maintenance schedules on these units are either too long (Nissan and Chrysler in particular) or non-existent. If you want a CVT to last 200,000 miles you will have to get the fluid changed regardless of what the OEM is stating in the owner's manual. Preferably, it's best to do this somewhere between the 30k to 50k point.

The second issue is that these units are engineered for vehicles that have too much power and weight to handle the capabilities of that CVT. Every minivan and SUV that has a CVT is ranked far below average when it comes to long-term reliability.

A light vehicle that is a compact or smaller will generally do better than most other alternatives if you must have a CVT for whatever reason. Also, there are some units in the marketplace that are technically not CVTs such as the ones used on Toyota's Prius line.

Hope this helps!

Steven Lang

http://www.dashboard-light.com/

The original car CVT came on a DAF 600 (Van Doorne's Aanhangwagen Fabriek) and was called "Variomatic" in 1958 and it was made for small displacement engines as it could handle low torque power. Ever since they've had problems handling higher HP engines, though now with more modern materials they've been able to bump-up the hp level. Subaru cut its teeth on the Justy decades ago and wasn't very successful, but they learned more so than others. Today we have a lot of technology good & bad thrown at us in the name of economy, technology that not too many people want and they are turning a car into an appliance. Where is the driving skill one needed to have in order to drive proficiently? gone with the manual transmission!

 

[Joe1]

I recently traded in my '15 Impreza. Your write up just taught me a few things about its CVT that l did not know. l never had any issues with the CVT in the 85k miles l put on the car.

My new Toyota has an eCVT that l am happy with so far.

 

[edyvw]

I won’t lie, the 2018 Altima rental I had and the 2020 Kia Forte rental my BiL had didn’t feel rubber bandy. But the simulated gears weren’t as nice feeling as my ZF 8HP70’s real gears though either.

When it comes to gearboxes (except dual-clutch) nothing compares to ZF 8HP. Nothing!

 

[supton]

I recently traded in my '15 Impreza. Your write up just taught me a few things about its CVT that l did not know. l never had any issues with the CVT in the 85k miles l put on the car.

My new Toyota has an eCVT that l am happy with so far.

85k isn't many miles.

But that eCVT has about nothing in common with a traditional CVT. Same function but different mechanism. It's really cool actually, but there's no gear ratio adjustment in them. Instead an eCVT simply sums the gas engine and electric motor RPM's together and applies that sum to the final drive. If the engine has to run (a/c, cold engine, whatever) then the electric motor spins backwards so as to get a sum of zero. Very few parts, very little to wear out.

I got to ride in a couple cars recently with eCVT and it did seem nice. Not enthusiast nice but good enough for a sedate daily driver.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I do not like them......Nothing you say will change my mind. They are....For the time being, Severely handicapped on how much power/torque can be put through them. This is a roadblock I'm not sure can be overcome. Isn't the Nissan Maxima the most powerful car with a CVT? 300 HP/261 FT.LBS is not that impressive anymore. I'm not even going to get into JATCO reliability.

300 HP not Impressive? Given the way people drive in my area, that at least 100 HP too much. They are all snails and sloths.
I too am Not a Fan of the JATCO and it's tall low ratio and sloppy converter - though I couldn't break mine in my Rogue and I tried HARD manually back torquing it with hard downshifts and manually shifiting it for almost 60K miles.

I am VERY impressed with the Fuji H. I . CVT in our Impreza Crosstrek. It has a small fluid coupling with a clutch pack and it locks right up at about 5MPH roadspeed and doesn't look back - so there is no "slush box" loss of power. Also the car seems to have a pretty low ratio starting off and is spunky around town where Mitsu and Nissan with med. duty JATCO ( without the low- drive planetary) are incredibly sluggish starting out.
My Ford has a 6 speed planetary trans with a killer low 1st ratio and a tight converter - but I actually miss the CVT. I thought I liked "shift-shock" but I guess not unless I'm rowing my own.

How will you "curmudgeons" deal with all the E cars in the near future with no transmission?

For Trav, I find it funny you found that offensive "name calling"

I consider it to be a badge of Honor

 

[ARCOgraphite]

.... Sort of like Ford cutting back engine output just so they can use 5w20 oil. Fine for a lot of people, but not for those that are more attuned to mechanical and engineering principles.

Where and when was this applied? I recall Ford seeming to do this at highways speeds on some of my Mustang GT - but that was back in the 5W30 Windsor SBF days.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

It depends on the whole system and who makes it. Personally, I'd be careful about trusting Nissan and Jatco, but when Toyota is behind it on something they sell 1M a year volume, I think I can trust it a little better.

Past history and reputation matters.

Corolla and Camry combined sales were under 0.5M in 2020

Nissan sold over 1.34M in 2019

 

[IndyIan]

I like ours, it works well for us. Hopefully it lasts as long as the rest of the car. I can see how they don't tolerate cold start abuse as well as a conventional automatic but we don't do that so I think it will go the distance. This drivetrain has enough power and tows enough for what we do, which is why we got it.

 

[Joe1]

85k isn't many miles.

But that eCVT has about nothing in common with a traditional CVT. Same function but different mechanism. It's really cool actually, but there's no gear ratio adjustment in them. Instead an eCVT simply sums the gas engine and electric motor RPM's together and applies that sum to the final drive. If the engine has to run (a/c, cold engine, whatever) then the electric motor spins backwards so as to get a sum of zero. Very few parts, very little to wear out.

I got to ride in a couple cars recently with eCVT and it did seem nice. Not enthusiast nice but good enough for a sedate daily driver.

I've watched some YouTube videos about the Toyota eCVT system and was very impressed with the engineering and overall design of it.

Your short explanation in layman's terms helped me understand it better.

 

[JTK]

I've taken on another CVT since this thread was started in 2018. Our 2019 Nissan Pathfinder SV 4x4. Bought it as an ex-rental in Oct 2019 w/ 24K miles on it. We're just shy of 45K miles on it today. The Pathfinder jatco uses a chain as opposed to the standard stack of steel bands w/ plates. This has proven to do nothing in terms of reliability of thisT CVT as we all know the issues the 2013+ Pathfinder has had in this regard. Ours has been flawless and is a joy to drive. No lugging, no rubber-bandy feeling, no crazy revving.. You can however tell that the control system won't give you all the go-pedal you want in certain circumstances.

I have run 16 quarts of Nissan NS-3 blue juice through it since we've owned it. 4 qts per spill and fill which are easier to do than an engine oil change on most Nissan CVTs.

 

[1978elcamino]

I've already put my deposit down on the new Porsche w/ the cvt. Its the new CVT, Hydrogen fuel cell, solar, plug in, wind turbine charging twin turbo model with a belt drive supercharger. It also runs on LPG as well. Its rumored to have almost 1000 combined HP and 100mpg.

 

[Pelican]

I've already put my deposit down on the new Porsche w/ the cvt. Its the new CVT, Hydrogen fuel cell, solar, plug in, wind turbine charging twin turbo model with a belt drive supercharger. It also runs on LPG as well. Its rumored to have almost 1000 combined HP and 100mpg.

Which can also take off and fly in case of traffic jams! My name's on that list too!

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by clinebarger
I do not like them......Nothing you say will change my mind. They are....For the time being, Severely handicapped on how much power/torque can be put through them.


This was one of many things that turned me away from them as well. And that isn't because they are stronger. The fact is they are weaker mechanically. If they weren't you would see them in bigger, more powerful vehicles, that are capable of towing.... Like the gear driven 8-speed automatics are.

I agree that in time this will be overcome. But that doesn't help anyone now. You can only purchase what is being offered. And for now, there isn't enough, if there is any advantage to them, to win my money over.


My sentiments exactly. For me the good news is any vehicle that I would even consider to purchase doesn't exist with a CVT, yet.

FTR-clinebarger is a forum transmission expert, I'll take his word as Gospel. His comments echo the comments I've heard from people I know that are well versed on the topic. At some point the technology might be forced upon me, hopefully by then the CVT is as reliable as a good automatic transmission.

Same here. I worry that all the smaller cars will go cvt, limiting choices. Whatever i have to buy to not have it. If that means i drive only trucks, so be it.

 

[demarpaint]

Same here. I worry that all the smaller cars will go cvt, limiting choices. Whatever i have to buy to not have it. If that means i drive only trucks, so be it.

I agree. Hopefully Jeep doesn't ever go that route with the Wrangler or the GC. If they do that will probably be the end of me ever buying a new vehicle again.

 

[sloinker]

I won't rule out ever buying a cvt. Like other technologies it is sure to get better with time. It took me a while to get used to the DCT's. Really did not care for them at first. I like them now. Time will tell if I like them long term.