The Synthetic Rage....

Pennzoil motor oil
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it was a matter of simple arithmetics in my case. $10 for oil change labor, $3.50 MC 820S filter, $11.50 for a 5-quart MC 5W20 blend or $26 for Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30. So, per 100,000 miles I would have these nominal oil change expenses:

1. MC blend: 20 changes x $25 = $500 (+ 2 quarts of top-off)
2. Mobil 1 Extended Performance: 7 changes x $40 = $280 (+ 1 quart)

On top of that Mobil 1 Rewards would give me ~$37 back.

I will be the first to agree that oil 'savings' are nothing compared to the savings on fuel per 100k mile we can achieve by driving sensibly.

That was when I drove a taxicab. 100k was not a long mile..
 
Originally Posted By: Y_K
it was a matter of simple arithmetics in my case. $10 for oil change labor, $3.50 MC 820S filter, $11.50 for a 5-quart MC 5W20 blend or $26 for Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30. So, per 100,000 miles I would have these nominal oil change expenses:

1. MC blend: 20 changes x $25 = $500 (+ 2 quarts of top-off)
2. Mobil 1 Extended Performance: 7 changes x $40 = $280 (+ 1 quart)

On top of that Mobil 1 Rewards would give me ~$37 back.

I will be the first to agree that oil 'savings' are nothing compared to the savings on fuel per 100k mile we can achieve by driving sensibly.

That was when I drove a taxicab. 100k was not a long mile..


That makes a lot of sense as you can triple the OCI. Good point on the fuel economy, I find it funny that car makers are recommending thinner oils for fuel economy when engine size, vehicle weight and driving style make the most difference in consumption. 5-liter V-8, 3 ton weight and fuel economy oil, something a bit off in the equation?
54.gif
 
I feel synthetic engine oils are more of a gimmick. Synthetic transmission fluids and gear oils though I feel are worth their weight in gold.
 
Not that I have any expereince with this, but over the long run I doubt mineral oil will leave the engine as clean as synthetic even with the synthetic run 2 or 3 times the OCI. Though every Castrol GTX user I know if swears by that brand for cleanliness.
 
Originally Posted By: Odysseus2010
Put you passions and personal preferenece aside for a moment,and understand - I don't care if you use syn or not. It's a matter of preference and that is fine.

I have been using Pennzoil Conventional or Pennzoil Platinum (and it's predecessors) variously for 300,000 miles in 7 different vehicles over the last 15 years. I have never extended a drain interval, and have always used the recommended viscosity. I have also done all maintenance on all vehicles in accordance with the book. I have also recorded every tank of gasoline on all those vehicles to the tenth of a MPG, noting speed, highway/city split and evern ambient temperature and avg. speed.

Never had I noticed an improvment in MPG or maintenance or longevity of any motor or componenet using synthetic oil.

I see not one shred of documented, unbiased, hard, science-based engineering proof that synthetic i sso much better that it can justify its massive price premium. No study that one can point to that will tell me that synthetic is better or makes my engine last longer.

Now I fully uderstand the interset around PU (hey, I am here reading about it too) but have we all lost our minds? The marketing folks are selling you perceived product differentiation.

I can guarantee you that over a few beers at the local watering hole where the Pennzoil Ultra marketing team hangs out they are luaghing up their sleeves at the riduculous Bee Ess nonsense they had to write on the Ultra bottle. Who actually believes this [censored]? Plenty of people and they know it. I know, I have written that stuff myself for decades.

It all makes me wanna puke.


Do a real test.....

Buy 2 identical cars. Fill one with Mobil 1 Extended Performance, Castrol EDGE, or Amsoil and the other with your favorite dino. Then never change the oil and drive both until the engines seize. Then let us know how your dino compared to a quality synthetic.
 
Use want you want and leave it at that. You synthetics are not worth the money guys buy all store brand items to "save" money? How about no name gasoline? You never spend a little extra on anything? The list of choices we make each day seems endless. That is a good thing IMO.

It is hilarious the hand ringing over $10 worth of oil per oil change. Even if one used Ultra and dumped it every 3000 miles, the total cost would be what for most people? A extra hundred bucks per year? For some that is a lot and I understand. For others not so much and it is their money.

If that is a financial burden that you don't want to be under don't do it. IMO just stop the your way is better, I am more frugal, smarter, wiser, saving the planet nonsense.

Many realize you may just be.... "cheap"....

Not that there is anything wrong with that
 
I don't consider myself cheap, I mostly use synthetics and they cost a lot more here than in the states. Gas also costs 1.35€/liter which translates to about 7$/gallon.

Probably shouldn't have stirred the waters in the first place, but then again this is a site about oil. I don't think I said I was wiser, smarter or more frugal than anyone but I do feel that this obsession with oil sometimes goes a bit over the top.
 
Originally Posted By: Zedhed
If you are getting good service out of Pennzoil Conventional and you are happy with it, why the rant about PP and other synthetics?

If other people want to use synthetic oil and "think" it is "better" for their cars, why the rub to you? They are not hurting you in any way.

My personal justification for using synthetic is to have extended OCIs. If I can go 10,000 miles instead of 5,000 miles for less that twice as much for synthetic, then why not? So:

1. Lower cost of maintenance
2. Less waste oil in the environment
3. Less work for me doing half as many OCs

Where's the downside?

I agree that if you don't use extended OCIs then synthetic MAY not be a good value.

But don't beat people up with your opinions


I really don't see that he was trying to beat anyone up with his opinion - but he was just stating his experiences. Personally I'd have to agree with him - on one of my vehicles I went back and forth a few times between conventional and synthetic in 200K miles and checking the MPG religiously. My experience was I saw a SMALL improvement on MPG - about .3 - .4 MPG. Pretty insignificant really considering the added cost of the oil and I'll admit there COULD have been other factors involved in the slight difference in MPG.
This was driving the same 800 mile round trip, the same route, the same weight (4 passengers) in the same vehicle.

People spend their money differently - if someone thinks they are getting a lot of benefit and wants the "best" for their car (from ANY synthetic whether it's group III, IV or V) well it's their money!

With that being said - I am one of the people that wants to try the newest thing out! Yes I bought some Pennzoil Ultra and will be using in my Mercury Grand Marquis soon. Frankly I'm not expecting any HUGE improvement (such as more MPG or power) but I just want to try it. Next time I'll PROBABLY go back to my stash of 1.00 a quart PP! Hard to beat for the price! When the PP is gone I'll probably go back to Motorcraft Semi-synthetic.
 
Odysseus2010, you've made it irritatingly obvious that you haven't been reading enough of these forums or else you'll see that BITOG members almost always say synthetic is a waste if you're running an OCI of 3k or 5k in a typical daily driver. If you read the used oil analysis section, you'll constantly see the comments of Blackstone telling the user to leave the oil in longer.

Extended OCIs are a huge part of the oil change economy if you don't ignore truck users. They drive ridiculous amount of miles, have extremely large oil capacities, and do not appreciate the downtime of doing an oil change. Europe also goes for the long drain in their consumer vehicles. If you think you're in the majority doing your short drains, you're completely missing the big picture just like certain Americans who think there are more automatic transmission vehicles in the world than manuals.

Why do we love SOPUS so much here? The Rotella line is an amazing product and shows what SOPUS is capable of putting in their Pennzoil products. There's so much behind the expectations we have of PU that you just don't see so before you come here spewing your opinion in only your 17th post, consider that maybe you don't see 100% of what's been going on here.
 
Also, I'd like to throw out the idea that it's the short OCI people (especially the non-DIYers) who are truly the victims of marketing. Jiffy Lube and Castrol GTX sludge commercials anyone?

Heck even Honda owners are convinced their car will sludge if they don't do 3k OCIs
 
How do you guys feel about long oil change intervals like 20k miles? Is it too much for the oil, has the marketing in europe taken us to the other extreme by convincing people that its ok to change your oil every 20k miles/2 years?
 
Originally Posted By: daman
Not another my Dino is better then your syn, geeeze...
18.gif
die DIE lock this thread!
where does it say my Dino is better then your syn ?
 
Originally Posted By: OpelFever
How do you guys feel about long oil change intervals like 20k miles? Is it too much for the oil, has the marketing in europe taken us to the other extreme by convincing people that its ok to change your oil every 20k miles/2 years?


I'd do it if my car consumes enough oil. When you do top ups, you're constantly putting in more add packs. used oil analysis show that adding oil in the middle of an OCI strengthens your TBN

That said, if your car has a problem, you could end up getting a lot of junk in your oil and I understand the argument that it's safer to do short OCIs because of that.

Still, who actually owns a car until the death of an engine? Even at 300k-400k miles, my engines have always been running great but the cost of replacing something else in the car made it not worth keeping
 
Originally Posted By: Odysseus2010
Put you passions and personal preferenece aside for a moment,and understand - I don't care if you use syn or not. It's a matter of preference and that is fine.

I have been using Pennzoil Conventional or Pennzoil Platinum (and it's predecessors) variously for 300,000 miles in 7 different vehicles over the last 15 years. I have never extended a drain interval, and have always used the recommended viscosity. I have also done all maintenance on all vehicles in accordance with the book. I have also recorded every tank of gasoline on all those vehicles to the tenth of a MPG, noting speed, highway/city split and evern ambient temperature and avg. speed.

Never had I noticed an improvment in MPG or maintenance or longevity of any motor or componenet using synthetic oil.

I see not one shred of documented, unbiased, hard, science-based engineering proof that synthetic i sso much better that it can justify its massive price premium. No study that one can point to that will tell me that synthetic is better or makes my engine last longer.

Now I fully uderstand the interset around PU (hey, I am here reading about it too) but have we all lost our minds? The marketing folks are selling you perceived product differentiation.

I can guarantee you that over a few beers at the local watering hole where the Pennzoil Ultra marketing team hangs out they are luaghing up their sleeves at the riduculous Bee Ess nonsense they had to write on the Ultra bottle. Who actually believes this [censored]? Plenty of people and they know it. I know, I have written that stuff myself for decades.

It all makes me wanna puke.
The difference in price is very small, not even close to massive if you shop wisely
 
Originally Posted By: OpelFever
How do you guys feel about long oil change intervals like 20k miles? Is it too much for the oil, has the marketing in europe taken us to the other extreme by convincing people that its ok to change your oil every 20k miles/2 years?


If the car's engine is relatively "easy" on oil and has a large enough sump and is using an oil that excels in extended drain applications and meets all the various requirements for the vehicle and operator, then I am all for it.
 
Originally Posted By: Odysseus2010


It all makes me wanna puke.


Why are you in this Forum? Stick to your owner manual and move along, nothing for you to see here.
 
Originally Posted By: OpelFever
How do you guys feel about long oil change intervals like 20k miles? Is it too much for the oil, has the marketing in europe taken us to the other extreme by convincing people that its ok to change your oil every 20k miles/2 years?


If I used a high quality synthetic with a high TBN like Amsoil, then I might be tempted to do 20k OCIs. But, unless I was forced to by regulations, I prefer to use synthetics like PP or RTS with lower TBNs and have 10k OCIs.

BTW, my local Walmart had RTS T6 on sale for $11 a bottle and now I have a new "mega-stash" (20gals)
 
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