The Synthetic Rage....

[Odysseus2010]

Put you passions and personal preferenece aside for a moment,and understand - I don't care if you use syn or not. It's a matter of preference and that is fine.

I have been using Pennzoil Conventional or Pennzoil Platinum (and it's predecessors) variously for 300,000 miles in 7 different vehicles over the last 15 years. I have never extended a drain interval, and have always used the recommended viscosity. I have also done all maintenance on all vehicles in accordance with the book. I have also recorded every tank of gasoline on all those vehicles to the tenth of a MPG, noting speed, highway/city split and evern ambient temperature and avg. speed.

Never had I noticed an improvment in MPG or maintenance or longevity of any motor or componenet using synthetic oil.

I see not one shred of documented, unbiased, hard, science-based engineering proof that synthetic i sso much better that it can justify its massive price premium. No study that one can point to that will tell me that synthetic is better or makes my engine last longer.

Now I fully uderstand the interset around PU (hey, I am here reading about it too) but have we all lost our minds? The marketing folks are selling you perceived product differentiation.

I can guarantee you that over a few beers at the local watering hole where the Pennzoil Ultra marketing team hangs out they are luaghing up their sleeves at the riduculous Bee Ess nonsense they had to write on the Ultra bottle. Who actually believes this [censored]? Plenty of people and they know it. I know, I have written that stuff myself for decades.

It all makes me wanna puke.

 

[bepperb]

You don't see any advantage because you're not taking advantage of the benifits.

PU has a TBN of 13. Pennzoil conventional has one of 7~8. So if you are doing long drains, there's your advantage. You're not, but that doesn't mean nobody else is.

And this is from VOA here, not marketing.

 

[heypete]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
You don't see any advantage because you're not taking advantage of the benifits.


Seconded.

Modern conventional oils are excellent, and it's hard to go wrong using them. Modern synthetics are also excellent, and have their places.

Personally, for a daily driver, I'd stick with conventional just for the economy -- when I stick with the manufacturer-specified intervals, there's little doubt that in my mind that other parts of the vehicle will fail long before the engine ever does. For track cars or other highly-stressed systems operating at very high temperatures, synthetic might be a better choice.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Synthetic is good for high temperature(turbo), extreme low temperature or extended drains. If those situations fit then the synthetic oil becomes worthwhile. IF doing factory recomended OCI's and serice it is not worthwhile. QS green bottle is down to $10 at the wallyymart.

 

[Zedhed]

If you are getting good service out of Pennzoil Conventional and you are happy with it, why the rant about PP and other synthetics?

If other people want to use synthetic oil and "think" it is "better" for their cars, why the rub to you? They are not hurting you in any way.

My personal justification for using synthetic is to have extended OCIs. If I can go 10,000 miles instead of 5,000 miles for less that twice as much for synthetic, then why not? So:

1. Lower cost of maintenance
2. Less waste oil in the environment
3. Less work for me doing half as many OCs

Where's the downside?

I agree that if you don't use extended OCIs then synthetic MAY not be a good value.

But don't beat people up with your opinions

 

[lexus114]

this is gonna be good...

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Odysseus2010
I have never extended a drain interval,

Well, then what did you expect? The main advantage of synthetic oil is that you don't have to change it so often. If you're not going to extend intervals, then it's just a waste of perfectly good synthetic oil.

 

[Burt]

Too bad you can't just add an oz or two of the additive and add to your regular oil to up the TBN. I didn't think that synthetics had inherently higher TBN until they add something to it.

 

[Silber Igel]

Many years ago, there was a clear difference. Conventional oils have improved greatly due to tougher SAE/ILSAC performance standards. Thus there are no huge differences between a sys & conventional oil. Since they all meet the same standards, SAE/ILSAC/ACEA they are performance wise the same although the chemistry and color of the bottle may differ.

In consideration of the giant steps forward in conventional oil, I've backed away from full synthetic and have gone to a 'blend'. Specifically Motorcraft, or the CONOCO clones, in the proper grade driven to the mfgr's suggested oil change interval.

Since the cars aren't highly stressed... one, in fact, is a hybrid... I'm comfy with this decision.

 

[shpankey]

I can tell you, it makes a difference in my car. A high revving hot Turbo charged car with over 300hp that gets driven HARD. This car shears oils down in nothing flat.

For other regular cars, then the advantage for them comes in extended drain intervals.

Then there's also the advantage of synthetics in very low temp weather.

If you get them on specials, then the cost issue is drastically reduced. Combine that with an EDI, then you actually save money.

So now it just becomes a matter of preference. It's not a black and white choose A or B issue. If you're going to a quality dino like Pennzoil conventional for a regular non-turbo easy going car, then that's fine. 5k mile OCI's and it'll live forever. But every car and person have different requirements and may or may not choose to do something like EDI's to save money and the hassle of changing oil 1/2 the time. It makes perfect sense to me.

 

[daman]

Not another my Dino is better then your syn, geeeze...

die DIE lock this thread!

 

[labman]

I have a positive, long term experience with Pennzoil Conventional. My truck has Mobil 1 in it. Why? It is entirely based on extending my every 3 months OCI I have done since 1992.

1 Recent changes in pricing. Pennzoil Conventional is about $13/5qt and Mobil 1 $23 at Wal*Mart.

2 My jihad against the German ownership of Purolator. So why am I buying oil from a branch of Royal Dutch Shell?

3 An extended OCI means buying less oil that often is imported from countries hostile to America. That is somewhat offset by recycling my used oil. I would rather see my money go to more refining processes in America than more crude from else where.

If you aren't going to extend the OCI, it is hard to justify the higher price.

 

[OpelFever]

3000 mile OCI with todays oils, even dino, makes me want to puke. Most cars will last 300 000 miles with any oil, given that its changed regularly. My old clunker has allmost 400 000km on it and has used 15w40 conventional farmoil for most of its life. The recommended change interval is 15000km but the previous owner cut it to 10000km. Its seen 22 cold winters here in Finland and if anyone will bother fixing the chassis and electrics, it will see another 22 years of service.

With all the salt poured on the roads in winter the biggest challenge is fighting rust, not engine wear. And in most developed countries, where cars cost around a half of what they cost here, no-one will bother driving one thats over 15 years old.
I was quite upset to find engineblow videos on youtube after the "cash-for-clunkers" promotion. People had babied the cars changing oil every 3000 miles (producing a lot of waste oil) for a decade and then destroyed the engines just for fun. All the maintenance for nothing and prefectly good cars thrown away. Considering these circumstances, i wouldnt bother spending a lot on oil because the wear numbers are irrelevant at the time the car is scrapped.

 

[Greggy_D]

Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Synthetic is good for high temperature(turbo), extreme low temperature or extended drains. If those situations fit then the synthetic oil becomes worthwhile. IF doing factory recomended OCI's and serice it is not worthwhile. QS green bottle is down to $10 at the wallyymart.


End the thread right here. Spot on.

 

[Steve S]

Upside to syn . understanding the benefits and using them if needed.
upside to dino . Most likley it is all that is needed to be able for the second owner of the car to drive the car to the junk yard and the perfect choice for people who do not understand or use all the syn oil advantages.

 

[sicko]

Don't have time to read all the replies and I'm sure it's been covered but I'll repeat it.

Modern conventional oils are great for protecting most vehicles, and within that "normal" range protects just as well as synthetics. However, synthetics are better at protecting in the extremes, extreme cold, extreme heat, extended OCIs, and in engines that are known to be tough on oil (turbos, etc). In those cases synthetics show their ability to keep protecting better than conventional oils.

But for the normal (non-turbo) vehicle, in normal driving conditions, using the normal manufacturer recommended OCI, conventional oils will protect just as well as synthetics

 

[c3po]

Originally Posted By: Greggy_D
End the thread right here. Spot on.


I 2nd this statement.

 

[OpelFever]

Well put. Probably should be using a synthetic as its winter, just couldn't find the high mileage one at the time.

 

[BeanCounter]

Originally Posted By: Greggy_D
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Synthetic is good for high temperature(turbo), extreme low temperature or extended drains. If those situations fit then the synthetic oil becomes worthwhile. IF doing factory recomended OCI's and serice it is not worthwhile. QS green bottle is down to $10 at the wallyymart.


End the thread right here. Spot on.


I would agree, except for the fact that the assumption is being made that all additive packages (specifically detergents, in this situation) are created equal. I wouldn't be inclined to suggest that, personally.

 

[BeanCounter]

Originally Posted By: sicko
Don't have time to read all the replies and I'm sure it's been covered but I'll repeat it.

Modern conventional oils are great for protecting most vehicles, and within that "normal" range protects just as well as synthetics. However, synthetics are better at protecting in the extremes, extreme cold, extreme heat, extended OCIs, and in engines that are known to be tough on oil (turbos, etc). In those cases synthetics show their ability to keep protecting better than conventional oils.

But for the normal (non-turbo) vehicle, in normal driving conditions, using the normal manufacturer recommended OCI, conventional oils will protect just as well as synthetics


I agree, almost completely, with this statement.
If your vehicle sees average conditions and wear, experiencing little differentiation in environment, then most situations you won't be able to quantify much of a difference between conventional and synthetic oils.

However, the effects are hard to be measured outside of short-term effects, which could be deceiving. Repeated use of conventional vs. synthetic could have an effect down the road, but then who would be able to pinpoint (quantifiable) what exactly is at fault?
For those who like to err on the side of precaution, allowing more "wiggle room" for environment and unpredictable situations, quality synthetics can be a small price to pay for the assurance.