The problem continues

[M1Accord]

So I took my Corolla to Pep Boys today to check what could cause it to cut off after 30 mins driving. They hooked it up to OBD 1 and got code 24, which means intake air temperature signal fault. The mechanic, who is in his 60's at least, indicates that should not cause the cut off and more likely from the fact that a plug on my airbox keeps coming off once in awhile. The car wa left idling for 1.5 hrs and it didn't cut off. He claimed he did a quick road test but I am not sure. I saw him pull out of the bay but didn't know he actually drove around as the hood was still up. The car was left running fot at least 45 mins after that.

A complete system check, which cost 99 dollars didn't find the problem. I suspected either ignition coil or fuel pumped, which was replaced by another shop less than a month ago when I broke down.

Could it be old fuel filter that cause the car to cuts off. While in Drive and at stop, the car still run a little rough as the steering wheel vibrates a little. It used to be much worse before the fuel pump replacement. Pep Boys mechanic indicates good fuel pressure. I don't know if the car was warm enough though since the hood is up. The engine bay didn't get as warm as when it cut off 3 weeks ago, prompting me to go ahead with a new car purchase that had been put off for 2 years.

I still want to fix this car as driving an old car to meeting in inner city or strange areas is less stressful than driving a brand new vehicle. Going clubbing is also more fun when I don't have to worry about the car.

So help me please. Plugs and plug wires are new. Distributor cap is new but a piece inside was just cleaned as the new piece didn't fit. I asked if PB checked my ignition coil and the mechanic said he did. I have no reason to suspect him as I saw him bouncing from my car to one other car for two hours, doing work on both.

What could be wrong? I am going to drive to work with it very early on Monday to see if it cuts off. If it does, I'll have it towed to the place that replaced my fuel pump. I need to check how long he warranty the work. Thinking about it now, I think I had it replaced 5 weeks ago but the problem came back the following week. Almost causing me to get killed on the highway so I got a new car and drove that while work can't be missed. It is slow time at work now so I can miss a day or two getting it looked at.

 

[Donald]

The fuel filter if clogged will make the engine run rough when its under full acceleration. But it should not cause it to cut out.

I would replace the coil. My 1994 Camry had a coil inside the dist. It failed at 175,000. Even if it checks OK, it could be a heat related failure.

 

[Scott_Tucker]

When exactly does it cut out? When you are on the highway just cruising at the speed limit? Or does it cut out at other times. And by cut out do you mean it dies completely and won't restart, or do you mean it just runs rough?

 

[Mr Nice]

Camshaft position sensor ?

 

[JC1]

How long does the car stay off for when it cuts out? It sounds like an igniter problem. I had a similar problem on my 83 Tercel and once the igniter was replaced it was good as new.

Regards, JC.

 

[M1Accord]

Originally Posted By: JC1
How long does the car stay off for when it cuts out? It sounds like an igniter problem. I had a similar problem on my 83 Tercel and once the igniter was replaced it was good as new.

Regards, JC.


It varies from 2 mins to 45 mins. If I try to restart it in 2 mins, it may be good for .25 mile. If I wait 15 mins, I may get a mile. Last time, I had to wait for 30 mins as it cut off 4 consecutive times in my trip home. The one time it required a fuel pump replacement, it never restart. A week after fuel pump replacement, it cut off 4 times at various speed fro idle at the light to going 60 mph.

 

[CharBaby]

My buddy(RIP) had a '97 Dodge Ram 3500.

For the longest time, the engine would just cut out and not start for several hours/days in fact. Or if there was too much mousture in the air or raining, it would do the same thing(stall out). Sometimes it would restart in 1/2 hour...IDK!

He had it towed several times to a reputable garage in town and the Tech's could never find the issue as everytime they checked the engine it would either start up or just turn over and wear out the battery. The always changed him about >$90 each time as they were entitled that money.

One day I said to him..."I am going to fine this problem if it puts me in my grave"!...Long story short:

It was an ignition wire leaning over and touching the exhaust manifold(silicon sheathing had worn away to raw wire), shorting out the system. Or if the wire wasn't actually touching the manifold, and there was too much moisture in the air, it too would cause a stall/no restart.

M1Accord,
Not sure what year Corolla your speaking of but, check that there are no wires touching anything at all. Check the coil too, as some older Toyota Corolla coils are under the distributor cap.

Usually, fuel system issues cause more difficult starting rather than stalling with those Corolla's

 

[sdowney717]

When it has stalled can you be sure it is getting any fuel pressure?
You need a fuel pump gauge to test that.
You can also spray starting fluid into the engine air intake and see if it fires. If it wont fire then you will know it is an ignition problem.
It could be something in the fuel tank blocking the pickup.

 

[yonyon]

I'd bet a shiny nickel that a complete distributor and an igniter would have fixed the problem for a whole lot less money than buying a new car. Sometimes it can make sense to shotgun a bunch of parts at a problem. Of course if you did that you wouldn't have your nice new car to drive around in. You also wouldn't know what was really wrong with it, but you could have put the old parts in a box and said the thing in the box is broken.

Now that you've got a reliable car you may have the option to set aside a couple of hours to drive around a planned safe route and check to see specifically what does and doesn't work when it's playing dead. With a wiring diagram, test light, screwdriver, quarter inch socket set, and remote start switch you could have this thing licked pretty quickly.

Don't expect a mechanic at a chain store to do that for $99. Mostly of those places have service writers who are afraid to try telling a customer "it will cost $X/hr. until we find the problem" and don't want to lose money by quoting an exact price when they have no idea how long it will take.

 

[Doog]

First replace the coil as advised. Then clean the contacts on both male & female contacts of the airbox plug and be sure they are tight when reinstalling. Then look for more causes.

 

[M1Accord]

Originally Posted By: Char Baby
My buddy(RIP) had a '97 Dodge Ram 3500.

For the longest time, the engine would just cut out and not start for several hours/days in fact. Or if there was too much mousture in the air or raining, it would do the same thing(stall out). Sometimes it would restart in 1/2 hour...IDK!

He had it towed several times to a reputable garage in town and the Tech's could never find the issue as everytime they checked the engine it would either start up or just turn over and wear out the battery. The always changed him about >$90 each time as they were entitled that money.

One day I said to him..."I am going to fine this problem if it puts me in my grave"!...Long story short:

It was an ignition wire leaning over and touching the exhaust manifold(silicon sheathing had worn away to raw wire), shorting out the system. Or if the wire wasn't actually touching the manifold, and there was too much moisture in the air, it too would cause a stall/no restart.

M1Accord,
Not sure what year Corolla your speaking of but, check that there are no wires touching anything at all. Check the coil too, as some older Toyota Corolla coils are under the distributor cap.

Usually, fuel system issues cause more difficult starting rather than stalling with those Corolla's


It is a 92 sedan FWD with 1.6 l. I am suspecting that as well. I just drove it for 1 hour, covering 35 miles. Speed varied fro 60 mph on highway to 30 in neighborhood street. In addition, I let it idle in park for 30 mins and it still ran normally in my driveway. I also turned it off and back on twice to see if the problem occur but everything is functional. The temperature in nice in the 70's and very little humidity.

I am going to check the wires next. Now, I did make sure the sensor wire connected to the air box stay connected today. It works its way out sometime and may be what cause a code 24 on OBD1 scanner.

Thanks everyone. Keep it coming.

 

[M1Accord]

Originally Posted By: yonyon
I'd bet a shiny nickel that a complete distributor and an igniter would have fixed the problem for a whole lot less money than buying a new car. Sometimes it can make sense to shotgun a bunch of parts at a problem. Of course if you did that you wouldn't have your nice new car to drive around in. You also wouldn't know what was really wrong with it, but you could have put the old parts in a box and said the thing in the box is broken.

Now that you've got a reliable car you may have the option to set aside a couple of hours to drive around a planned safe route and check to see specifically what does and doesn't work when it's playing dead. With a wiring diagram, test light, screwdriver, quarter inch socket set, and remote start switch you could have this thing licked pretty quickly.

Don't expect a mechanic at a chain store to do that for $99. Mostly of those places have service writers who are afraid to try telling a customer "it will cost $X/hr. until we find the problem" and don't want to lose money by quoting an exact price when they have no idea how long it will take.


That is my approach. I make 6 figure salary but I am also not materialistic and a am very loyal to my cars and guns. As a lead test engineer, I can't afford to be late for work. Although I do set the schedule, I just need to not have a reason to be replaced; especially over a problem addressable with a car purchase.

 

[caravanmike]

i would assume we are looking for a thermal problem? something gets hot and stops working.

here are my suggestions
1)coil in distributor. (sometimes when they fail u can see the epoxy cracked, but u have to take the dist cap off to inspec

2) the rest of distributor (buy a good reman)

3)crank sensor

4) pcm

5) wiring problem

i have had 3 camrys all with distributors. all three had coils go bad. and one i replaced the whole distributor 1 year after coil replacement. mike

 

[kc8adu]

a friend went through this on a 90's camry.it may share ignition parts in common with yours.
randomly die and a random time to recover.would do it occasionally and sometimes you would have it die and not restart till hours later.
i caught it in the no start mode when i had it show up on a hook.
it died long enough to find that the coil was intermittant.
it also had a big crack in it.

 

[M1Accord]

Be honest, is this the type of issue that cause people to dump an otherwise great vehicle? I am going to inspect the inside of the distributor tomorrow. Is Rock Auto a good place to get auto parts?

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
Be honest, is this the type of issue that cause people to dump an otherwise great vehicle? I am going to inspect the inside of the distributor tomorrow. Is Rock Auto a good place to get auto parts?



Rockauto is a GREAT place to get parts! I love them and the prices are the best and shipping is low. I just ordered a TIMKEN wheel bearing last night...Autozone has the same part for $156...I got it for $106 delivered from Rock Auto and I've never waited more than 3 days for my parts.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
Be honest, is this the type of issue that cause people to dump an otherwise great vehicle? I am going to inspect the inside of the distributor tomorrow. Is Rock Auto a good place to get auto parts?


Yes. I'm in the same boat: decent salary, trying to be cheap (still have mortgage, kids will go to college some day, etc), yet need to be at work on a regular basis and cannot just take the wife's car instead, not sure I want to have the cost&headache of a third vehicle that spends most of its time just sitting, etc. It does not help when most of one's peers generally flip cars every 5 years, and for the same reasons (don't want the headaches nor unreliability).

 

[M1Accord]

I drove it to work today and it ran fine without cutting out. The different this time is that I have a full tank of gas and temperature is much cooler in the high 60s to low 70s instead of 90s. Of course, it still idle a little rough and the engine rpm is a little when in Drive at stop light; therefore, I kept it in N whenever I needed to stop. I'll wait till not much traffic to drive home.

I did check the wires on the cylinders and they are pretty close to the manifold. Honestly, I can't tell if this is exhaust or intake. It does get pretty hold there but it is located next to the firewall and behind the engine. I also thought it was exhaust manifold but maybe it is not. Either way, the wires are making slight contact with the manifold but the engine bay is much cooler today.

I hope my fuel pump is not bad since I can't duplicate it to get it fixed for free.

___
Correction, the wires are touching the intake manifold. Here is the picture of the engine bay, exactly like mine but mine doesn't have cold air intake. The wires are touching the back manifold and the protective rubber is gone in some area but the inside wires seem find. I'll get some insulation housing next.

 

[CharBaby]

If the wire covering is worn away at all, this could be the issue that I mentioned in the first place. The wires should look like the picture that you provided, nice & neat and not touching anyting at all but the wire holders

 

[mechtech2]

Electrical components can fail when hot.
This usually is ignition, but can be a relay for fuel.


If you told them that the problem was when it got hot, they should not just have performed tests when the car was running right. They should have duplicated the bad conditions.