The Point Spread

mongo161 · Jan 21, 2011

Originally Posted By: SuperFast
Originally Posted By: Errtt
I have seen the other way...

5w30 = 6
5w-20 = 4
10w-30 = 3
20w-40 = 2
etc.

smaller sum = better stability. It's old but it was more widely used (as far as I know) in the motorcycle world. Something about smaller sum, less VII's etc.

I got 10W30 in my 84 Camaro i could have gotten 5W30 but i didnt because im sure 10W30 is more stable. 5 less cold flow number, so what. Its HOT out here

I dont think 10W30 is as pointless as you say its tried and true and i believe 10W30 is what you will call a touch thicker even though thats not the most accurate way fof putting it, the 10 number vs the 5 number makes it a thicker oil in all aspects to a minor degree even though it is still a "30" so i must minorly digress. Im old scool. 10w30.

+1 I totally agree with you. There are some people with an agenda of pushing RL oil. What works for you is the way to go.

A_Harman · Jan 21, 2011

Originally Posted By: mongo161
Originally Posted By: SuperFast
Originally Posted By: Errtt
I have seen the other way...

5w30 = 6
5w-20 = 4
10w-30 = 3
20w-40 = 2
etc.

smaller sum = better stability. It's old but it was more widely used (as far as I know) in the motorcycle world. Something about smaller sum, less VII's etc.

I got 10W30 in my 84 Camaro i could have gotten 5W30 but i didnt because im sure 10W30 is more stable. 5 less cold flow number, so what. Its HOT out here

I dont think 10W30 is as pointless as you say its tried and true and i believe 10W30 is what you will call a touch thicker even though thats not the most accurate way fof putting it, the 10 number vs the 5 number makes it a thicker oil in all aspects to a minor degree even though it is still a "30" so i must minorly digress. Im old scool. 10w30.

+1 I totally agree with you. There are some people with an agenda of pushing RL oil. What works for you is the way to go.

There's no agenda here on pushing Redline oil. Compare their specs to any commonly available oil, and you'll see there is a difference.

demarpaint · Jan 21, 2011

I never saw anyone with an agenda pushing RL, in fact they have no representation on the site that I'm aware of. The quality of their products speak for themselves. I really respect that.

Bruce T · Jan 21, 2011

The initial VI matters little compared to shear in actual use. Red Line 5w30 only has a VI of 162, but it contains no VII and shears very little. Look at other specs like HTHS=3.8, Flash Point=486°F/252°C, and Noack=6, followed by low shear in UOAs. This high level of performance is why RL is considered a high-end oil, and it's priced accordingly. Claiming a RL agenda becomes a wee bit silly. No, not all engines require these kind of oil specs.

SuperFast · Jan 21, 2011

Originally Posted By: mongo161
Originally Posted By: SuperFast
Originally Posted By: Errtt
I have seen the other way...

5w30 = 6
5w-20 = 4
10w-30 = 3
20w-40 = 2
etc.

smaller sum = better stability. It's old but it was more widely used (as far as I know) in the motorcycle world. Something about smaller sum, less VII's etc.

I got 10W30 in my 84 Camaro i could have gotten 5W30 but i didnt because im sure 10W30 is more stable. 5 less cold flow number, so what. Its HOT out here

I dont think 10W30 is as pointless as you say its tried and true and i believe 10W30 is what you will call a touch thicker even though thats not the most accurate way fof putting it, the 10 number vs the 5 number makes it a thicker oil in all aspects to a minor degree even though it is still a "30" so i must minorly digress. Im old scool. 10w30.

+1 I totally agree with you. There are some people with an agenda of pushing RL oil. What works for you is the way to go.

What is RL oil? my posti didnt contain anything about RL oil

but id like to see an endurance test of 10W30 vw 5W03 im sure 10W30 would win, even if by slightly. breakdown and whatnot

Thanks for the +1 i do appreciate it

mongo161 · Jan 21, 2011

I apologize to the members who posted to the thread. I don't know where I imagined that I read about Red-Line. Either it was too early in the AM or else it was an early "Senior" moment. My sincere apologies again. Cheers

SuperFast · Jan 21, 2011

Originally Posted By: mongo161
I apologize to the members who posted to the thread. I don't know where I imagined that I read about Red-Line. Either it was too early in the AM or else it was an early "Senior" moment. My sincere apologies again. Cheers

Errtt · Jan 21, 2011

Originally Posted By: SuperFast
Originally Posted By: mongo161
Originally Posted By: SuperFast
Originally Posted By: Errtt
I have seen the other way...

5w30 = 6
5w-20 = 4
10w-30 = 3
20w-40 = 2
etc.

smaller sum = better stability. It's old but it was more widely used (as far as I know) in the motorcycle world. Something about smaller sum, less VII's etc.

I got 10W30 in my 84 Camaro i could have gotten 5W30 but i didnt because im sure 10W30 is more stable. 5 less cold flow number, so what. Its HOT out here

I dont think 10W30 is as pointless as you say its tried and true and i believe 10W30 is what you will call a touch thicker even though thats not the most accurate way fof putting it, the 10 number vs the 5 number makes it a thicker oil in all aspects to a minor degree even though it is still a "30" so i must minorly digress. Im old scool. 10w30.

+1 I totally agree with you. There are some people with an agenda of pushing RL oil. What works for you is the way to go.

What is RL oil? my posti didnt contain anything about RL oil

but id like to see an endurance test of 10W30 vw 5W03 im sure 10W30 would win, even if by slightly. breakdown and whatnot

Thanks for the +1 i do appreciate it

I didn't mention RL

Jeffs2006EvoIX · Feb 14, 2011

Originally Posted By: Bruce T
The initial VI matters little compared to shear in actual use. Red Line 5w30 only has a VI of 162, but it contains no VII and shears very little. Look at other specs like HTHS=3.8, Flash Point=486°F/252°C, and Noack=6, followed by low shear in UOAs. This high level of performance is why RL is considered a high-end oil, and it's priced accordingly. Claiming a RL agenda becomes a wee bit silly. No, not all engines require these kind of oil specs.

I agree 100% with this. In my car pushing over 160whp per liter, I think I fall within the RL Oil Use category.

Jeff

dailydriver · Feb 14, 2011

Originally Posted By: Bruce T
This high level of performance is why RL is considered a high-end oil, and it's priced accordingly.

See, this is what I do not 'get'.

Everyone says that RL is sooo 'pricey', but some of the off-the-shelf group3/4 synthetics (i.e.; Castrol Edge, Pennzoil Ultra, etc.) are only about a buck or so less expensive per quart (even at ChinaMart!) when they are not on some kind of sale/promotion.

Now even RL looks like a 'bang for the buck' bargain when compared to some of the uber-exotic, more pricey, boutique oils out there for at least $5.00-$6.00 more per quart/liter than RL (i.e.; Motul 300V, Torco SR5, Neo, etc.).

Quattro Pete · Feb 14, 2011

Originally Posted By: Errtt
I have seen the other way...

5w30 = 6
5w-20 = 4
10w-30 = 3
20w-40 = 2
etc.

smaller sum = better stability.

"Sum"? Sum is the result of addition. The result of division is called quotient.

SuperFast · Feb 14, 2011

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Errtt
I have seen the other way...

5w30 = 6
5w-20 = 4
10w-30 = 3
20w-40 = 2
etc.

smaller sum = better stability.

"Sum"? Sum is the result of addition. The result of division is called quotient.

i knew that math looked WRONG

10W-30 = "20 point spread"
10W-40 = "30 point spread"
5w30 = "25 point spread"

once had a mechanic explain "the point spread" and say that as an engine got worn, to step up to a 40weight oil.. andif it got very very worn, to a 50 weight oil.

the reasoning of "poitn spread was "the less point spread, the more actual oil is in te oil, not additives or viscosity index improvers that arent oil" but we are saying the term "point spread" is now meaningless since the new 5w30 oils are so good they wont shear under most circumstances, and 10w30 is a useless grade due to 5w30, no exceptions to a passenger car ? is this wat i am gathering ?

A_Harman · Feb 14, 2011

If you're talking Group I and II base stock oils, you are generally correct in that it takes more VII polymer to take a 30-weight base stock, and thin it down to a 5w than to a 10w at low temperatures. API standards define Group I and II base stocks in part as having Viscosity Indices below 120. It is not possible to formulate either 10w30 or 5w30 oils with such low VI base stocks.

Using the Widman viscosity calculator, I find that an oil with VI of 120, and the lowest possible 30-weight 100C viscosity of 9.3, the KV at -30C is 21124 centistokes. This far exceeds the limit for a 5w viscosity, which is 6200 centipoise at -30C. (Granted, I am somewhat comparing apples and oranges by going between stokes and poise, but the difference should be less than 20%. Senior BITOG'ers, if I'm wrong about this, please post your exceptions.) Therefore, a 10w30 conventional oil would have a lower amount of viscosity shear loss because it would have lower content of VII.

But once you enter the realm of syn oils, the rules change. Synthetic oils have base stocks with inherently higher VI, so they require less VII to attain wide multi-viscosity ratings. Depending on the base stock, some oil manufacturers can attain 5w30 ratings without using VII's at all.

The Point Spread

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