The motor oil bible

Bumper · Jun 1, 2004

I found this "E-Book" on another care care site. I'm not sure if it has been posted here before but it sure does give an extensive amount of information. http://motor-oil-bible.com/mob-2-2-04.pdf
Sorry about the "Jesus Propaganda" at the end, but its attached to the pdf. I am in no way supporting or discouraging it but just wanted to mention that it attached to some really quality oil info!!

TomJones76 · Jun 1, 2004

Yeah, I read that. That guy seemed to know his stuff, but that was *before* I started reading this KB. The best part was the way he tried to put everything in plain English.

G-MAN · Jun 1, 2004

I think the guy is a little out to lunch with this:

quote:

Synthetic oils will typically have a film strength of 500% to 1000% higher than petroleum oils of comparable viscosity. In fact, believe it or not, even though heavier weight oils typically have higher film strength than lighter weight oils, a 0w30 or 5w20 weight synthetic oil will likely have higher film strength than a 15w40 or 20w50 petroleum oil.

He defines "film strength" as:

quote:

[F]ilm strength of a lubricant refers to it's ability to maintain a film of lubricant between two objects when extreme pressure and heat are applied.

So he is in effect saying that a 5w20 synthetic will have the HT/HS of a 15w40 conventional oil, which is clearly NOT the case at all.

G-MAN · Jun 1, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Garlington:

quote:

So he is in effect saying that a 5w20 synthetic will have the HT/HS of a 15w40 conventional oil, which is clearly NOT the case at all.

Click to expand...

Actually he says the film strength of a low viscosity synthetic oil could be higher than the film strength of a high viscosity petroleum oil.

you are the one equating an oil's viscosity and film strength. Seems like a 4 ball wear test might be a better test of film strength than ht/hs viscosity.

I'm not equating anything. The definition he gave of "film strength" IS the definition of HT/HS.

Ray Garlington · Jun 2, 2004

OK. Then your definition of HT/HS is incorrect. All he did was say "extreme pressure and heat". It is a leap from there to the HT/HS viscosity.

G-MAN · Jun 2, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Garlington:
OK. Then your definition of HT/HS is incorrect. All he did was say "extreme pressure and heat". It is a leap from there to the HT/HS viscosity.

Okay, then...enlighten me. What is the "correct" definition of HT/HS?

Edit: Forgot to add

[ June 02, 2004, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: G-Man II ]

Ray Garlington · Jun 2, 2004

I don't have the test definition in front of me but it is something like the viscosity measured in Cp after 1 million shearing operations at 150*C.

John in the ATL · Jun 2, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Bumper:
I found this "E-Book" on another care care site. http://motor-oil-bible.com/mob-2-2-04.pdf

I bought that book 3 years ago when I was interested in changing to synthetic oil. Too bad that BITOG was not around then otherwise I could have saved my $$$. Some of the members on this board blow that guy away with their knowledge.

In the interest of full disclosure, the guy is a top Amsoil salesman who's picture is always in Amsoil's monthly newsletter.

Schmoe · Jun 2, 2004

Thanks John, I KNEW it! It has been a while, but I remember that "book" was used to promote Amsoil.

Pablo · Jun 2, 2004

Did you see his cheesy oil chat site?....like I'm gonna register there and get spammed....

I read the thing long ago, big wizz....it has some good talking points and to his credit he isn't hawking every 2 seconds, but still he makes money. I still haven't figured that out. I give him credit...

Dr. T · Jun 2, 2004

My favorite part is the oil charts at the back with almost a complete directory of every N.A. oil in it's respective grade allowing for side-by-side comparisons.

Problem is the charts go obsolete every 6 months as the data changes....

Ken4 · Jun 2, 2004

According to my handbook of 'Lubricants and Lubrication', 750+ pages thick!

quote:

Engine oils containing polymer V-T improvers or polymer ash-free dispersants display structural-viscosity effects at low and high temperatures. As a rule, the dependence of viscosity on shear rate is undesirable. However, one can see this effect in fuel-efficient oils. At high sliding speeds when hydrodynamic lubrications is given, lower viscosity generates lower friction and lower energy consumption. To keep this process under control, HTHS viscosity (high temperature high shear) was introduced. This measures viscosity at higher temperature (corresponding to the oil temperature at friction points) and at high shear rates. This figure appears in engine oil specifications as a threshold value.

Interestingly, there is no definition for 'Film Strength' in this handbook! The words 'Film Strength' is not even used. But 'Film Thickness' is used.

If you look at Bob's definition of Film Strength in the Oil Glossary section:

quote:

film strength

The property of an oil which enables it to maintain an unbroken film on lubricated surfaces under operating conditions, where other otherwise there would be scuffing or scoring of the surfaces.

G-MAN · Jun 2, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Ray Garlington:
I don't have the test definition in front of me but it is something like the viscosity measured in Cp after 1 million shearing operations at 150*C.

Ray, what this boob who authored this book is trying to get at with his non-standard term "film strength" is HT/HS. The two standard protocols for HT/HS viscosity are used to test the oil under extreme heat and pressure. These conditions approximate the high shear areas of an engine, which are the bearings, lifters, and rocker arm/valve stem interface.

Schmoe · Jun 2, 2004

I can't buy the 5W-20 is strictly for CAFE purposes. He explained all about CAFE, but we all know that Honda DOES NOT have that problem, but they are putting in 5W-20 from the factory. If memory serves me correct, wasn't this written in regards to Amsoil products???

G-MAN · Jun 2, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Schmoe:
I can't buy the 5W-20 is strictly for CAFE purposes. He explained all about CAFE, but we all know that Honda DOES NOT have that problem, but they are putting in 5W-20 from the factory. If memory serves me correct, wasn't this written in regards to Amsoil products???

I don't think there is any question that Ford went with 5w20 for CAFE reasons. However, Ford created a spec (WSS-M2C153-H) for 5w20 oils that would ensure that these oils would protect BETTER and be a better built oil than the average 5w30. This was the only way that Ford could be sure that going to 5w20 wouldn't come back to haunt them. And sure enough, the UOAs we are seeing from 5w20 oils that meet this spec are proving that these oils are great performers.

It could be that Honda only decided to go with 5w20 in North America because the 5w20 oils would have to be better because of this Ford spec. Just a theory.

Ray Garlington · Jun 2, 2004

quote:

So he is in effect saying that a 5w20 synthetic will have the HT/HS of a 15w40 conventional oil, which is clearly NOT the case at all.

Actually he says the film strength of a low viscosity synthetic oil could be higher than the film strength of a high viscosity petroleum oil.

you are the one equating an oil's viscosity and film strength. Seems like a 4 ball wear test might be a better test of film strength than ht/hs viscosity.

Schmoe · Jun 2, 2004

Interesting theory Gman. Best one I've heard yet in explaining Honda's switch.

Quattro Pete · Jun 2, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. T:
My favorite part is the oil charts at the back with almost a complete directory of every N.A. oil in it's respective grade allowing for side-by-side comparisons.

And I'm wondering why is it that all M1 oils (apart from Delvac) in those charts have a TBN of around 5 and all other synthetics - roughly double that.

Leo · Jun 25, 2004

Just downloaded the copy. I reckon its great, especially for the uninitated. Only thing is, how come its free all of a sudden? Either way its a great resource for the majority of people out there. (probably not all of us I presume!)

ekpolk · Jun 25, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Leo:
Just downloaded the copy. I reckon its great, especially for the uninitated. Only thing is, how come its free all of a sudden? Either way its a great resource for the majority of people out there. (probably not all of us I presume!)

There are two versions, a free one with less material and the full paid version.

The "5" value is explained as a default if the maker won't provide (or he can't find) the true TBN.

The motor oil bible

Similar threads