The Level Field Instiute

[USA1]

Whenever someone states their Japanese car is more American than a US branded car, I refer to this website and their data.

http://www.levelfieldinstitute.org/index.html

The JPC rating of an automobile (Jobs Per Car) is a much more accurate way to rate how "American" a vehicle is, in comparison to one or two others. It's a great tool, and is based on whole numbers, rather than fractions. For example, the data accumulated is for every 2500 cars sold, a certain number of US workers were employed by that company to produce the auto.

I am in no way associated with this website, but to me, this paragraph alone really puts things into perspective:

"Because Ford, GM and Chrysler conduct far more of their research, design, engineering, manufacturing and assembly work in the U.S. than foreign automakers do, buying a Ford, GM or Chrysler supports twice as many jobs as buying the average foreign automobile. Some comparisons are even more striking. Buying a Ford supports six times more jobs than buying a Hyundai. Comparing a Honda and a Hyundai? The Honda supports three times more jobs."

 

[LS2JSTS]

Yes, but it is far easier for some around here to continue to rationalize. To tell themselves that if the Camry or Accord is built here it MUST be more American than a Mexican built GM.

Like that site points out, that is a simpleton view of the total picture. R&D, Design and Engineering are every bit as important as where a car is assembled. But many around here dont want to face that fact.

Facts such as this mean little to nothing to many around here.....

"Tomorrow's jobs will depend, in part, on today's R&D, particularly in fuel efficiency and safety. The Japanese Automobile Manufacturers Association (JAMA), an association of 14 Japanese automakers doing business in America, notes that they collectively employ 3,600 R&D workers at 36 facilities nationwide. Honda operates 10 facilities employing 1,300 R&D professionals. Level Field welcomes these jobs, but more than 65,000 Americans (nearly 20 times JAMA's total) work in 215 automotive R&D facilities in Michigan alone."

 

[cousincletus]

Excellent site, but you just can't reach some people. Whenever you point something like that out, They will make note of the domestics that aren't assembled here and the imports that are. There are still plenty of choices with a high domestic content AND assembled here. They just can't handle the truth. It's always one excuse after another. Many don't care about American jobs either (unless, of course, it's their job). Others will claim that the info in level field is biased, because those folks have worked in the domestic auto industry.

 

[bepperb]

That's an interesting angle on the subject. The problem with the site is that they compare manufacturers, not vehicles but phrase things the other way around. Compare any two cars, and you'll get their arbitrary score followed by window sticker domestic content %, window sticker assembly location... and then everything else is based on the manufacturer not the model. Which is fine, but it certainly doesn't reward companies for building things in the US. And that's for any company, GM or Hyundai.

For me, the mentality behind this site means nothing. Toyota and Honda are traded on the NYSE, they're global companies to me. Ford and GM too. If you want jobs here, we need to create globally competitive products and export them. There is not a chance we can fix our economy by closing doors to imports (especially since we import so much oil). And we already do that, and I'd like to see a site built around that propaganda.

 

[javacontour]

I've seen this before, and I have the same questions. It seems to just count US or North American jobs per car. How many jobs total for each car.

I.E. what is the percentage.

If automaker A has 100 JPC, and 75 of them are in the US, then is that better or worse than a carmaker who has 200 JPC (less automation, whatever), and only 75 of them are in the US.

It's a number, and probably accurate. But one cannot make a sound judgment with only one number.

I'd like to see the Level Field Institute publish both the total number of jobs worldwide used to make a car as well as the number of domestic jobs.

I suspect some car makers just use more people per car, others less. Without a view of the complete picture, one cannot make an accurate determination of which automakers are TRULY committed to using US labor, and which just want to LOOK like they are.

 

[cousincletus]

If you buy something with a high domestic content and is assembled in the USA, the jobs per car will be even higher than the "JPC" on the site. And what does us importing gas have to do with trying to save our industries? The effect is actually the opposite. More countries competing for limited resources=spikes in prices. That just doesn't make any sense. Japan protects their jobs.

 

[bradepb]

The institute was started by retired auto workers...hmmmm

 

[benjamming]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
[snip]R&D, Design and Engineering are every bit as important as where a car is assembled. But many around here dont want to face that fact.


That is b/c it's not a fact. Many may not care about, say the design engineers, & only care about the assembly workers. Others may care only about the design engineers or to heck with the assembly workers. To you, they may be equally important but not everyone will hold that viewpoint.

How do they count jobs attached to each vehicle?
For example, if company A only utilizes 1000 people to build a car & company B utilizes 2000 people to build the car, which is better? this could show up in how automated an assembly plant or supplier is.
Are contract workers counted?
How are outside vendors counted? Do they count a supplier that has 1,000 people at the plant where bumper covers are made or do they count just the people on the line making that actual bumper cover? Do they normalize to full time equivalent (FTE)?

 

[bepperb]

Manufacturer: Honda
Direct employment (# US Jobs) 25,000
Percent of U.S. Auto Jobs: 8.93%
% of Cars Sold In U.S.
That Are Made in U.S. 69%
Number of US plants: 5

That's funny, because Honda made 84% of their cars in the US in the 2009 model year. Actually, American Honda has maintained a local production rate of approximately 75 percent or higher since 1996. I wonder how accurate the rest of the numbers on this site are...

http://vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=872846

 

[LS2JSTS]

Java....How about addressing the fact that the domestics employ 20 times as many R&D people here in the States vs the transplants?

How about the fact that GM employs as many Americans here in the States as ALL of the transplants COMBINED?

I don't understand how these aren't vital statistics to anyone who wants to support domestic jobs.

The problem with the content stickers is that it ignores the R&D side of things. This site is just adding in that factor to the already labor weighted content numbers.

 

[bepperb]

"The problem with the content stickers is that it ignores the R&D side of things. This site is just adding in that factor to the already labor weighted content numbers."

I totally agree with you, it's just this site doesn't do a good job of that either.

 

[javacontour]

I guess the other problem I have is with things like this. I compared the Toyota Corolla, until recently made in a UAW plant in CA (Both GM and Toyota pulled out of that plant, but apparently GM didn't take the beating that Toyota took for leaving, bias?)

Anyway, the problem with the calculation is the Corolla, made in the US with 65% domestic content scores lower than the Ford Fusion, made in Mexico (last time I checked, NOT the US nor staffed with UAW labor) scores almost 3x higher.

So instead of looking at individual cars, they are largely taking a car-maker as a whole.

So while an interesting device, I'm not sure how valid it is when it comes to choosing a particular vehicle.

I think a more accurate figure would be to figure how many are employed by each car maker, worldwide. After all GM, Ford and Chrysler all have offices and engineering done world wide, not just the Asian car makers, and look at world wide sales, world wide employment, where a car is made, domestic content etc.

Cars like the Focus and the Ford Contour were largely designed in Europe. Same could be said for the Transit Connect, designed in Europe, built in Turkey, shipped here and sold at your local Ford dealer.

So while I understand what they are trying to do, I'm not sure they paint an accurate picture of what is really going on in the auto industry.

 

[labman]

Any idea who is behind that site and how good their data is? It is quite human to give high credibility to things you agree with and quibble about what you disagree with.

But it does make the very valid point that domestic content and jobs goes beyond manufacturing. Many people would like to sweep that under the rug. Look at the way I have been beat up for mentioning Purolator's German ownership.

I don't feel obligated to pay high prices for shoddy goods, but will buy American when competitive goods are available, be it a flashlight battery or a car.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
[snip]R&D, Design and Engineering are every bit as important as where a car is assembled. But many around here dont want to face that fact.


That is b/c it's not a fact. Many may not care about, say the design engineers, & only care about the assembly workers. Others may care only about the design engineers or to heck with the assembly workers.


LOL....Whatever, enjoy your delusion thinking that higher paying engineering jobs aren't a significant factor in determining what "domestic content" really is.....I give up.

The fact of the matter is that the domestics have and continue to employ many more Americans and Canadians than the transplants ever have...it's fact and cant be denied by parsing and playing with numbers. They pay more taxes, they pay more in retiree benefits, they contribute on a scale that the transplants couldnt match if they suddenly tripled their investments here...on with the rationalizations.

 

[cousincletus]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
I guess the other problem I have is with things like this. I compared the Toyota Corolla, until recently made in a UAW plant in CA (Both GM and Toyota pulled out of that plant, but apparently GM didn't take the beating that Toyota took for leaving, bias?)

Anyway, the problem with the calculation is the Corolla, made in the US with 65% domestic content scores lower than the Ford Fusion, made in Mexico (last time I checked, NOT the US nor staffed with UAW labor) scores almost 3x higher.

So instead of looking at individual cars, they are largely taking a car-maker as a whole.

So while an interesting device, I'm not sure how valid it is when it comes to choosing a particular vehicle.

I think a more accurate figure would be to figure how many are employed by each car maker, worldwide. After all GM, Ford and Chrysler all have offices and engineering done world wide, not just the Asian car makers, and look at world wide sales, world wide employment, where a car is made, domestic content etc.

Cars like the Focus and the Ford Contour were largely designed in Europe. Same could be said for the Transit Connect, designed in Europe, built in Turkey, shipped here and sold at your local Ford dealer.

So while I understand what they are trying to do, I'm not sure they paint an accurate picture of what is really going on in the auto industry.


I saw a window sticker on a Corolla recently and the parts content is 55%. Any way you slice it, this wouldn't even be an issue or talking point if the consumer watched what he bought and left the imports rotting on the lot.

 

[Norse]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
... and then everything else is based on the manufacturer not the model. Which is fine, but it certainly doesn't reward companies for building things in the US.


It dosen't ?!?!

Well lets see.

Here is Toyota.
% of Cars Sold In U.S.
That Are Made in U.S. 16.3%

Here is GM.
% of Cars Sold In U.S.
That Are Made in U.S. 84%

Here is Ford.
% of Cars Sold In U.S.
That Are Made in U.S. 85%

 

[cousincletus]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
[snip]R&D, Design and Engineering are every bit as important as where a car is assembled. But many around here dont want to face that fact.


That is b/c it's not a fact. Many may not care about, say the design engineers, & only care about the assembly workers. Others may care only about the design engineers or to heck with the assembly workers.


LOL....Whatever, enjoy your delusion thinking that higher paying engineering jobs aren't a significant factor in determining what "domestic content" really is.....I give up.

The fact of the matter is that the domestics have and continue to employ many more Americans and Canadians than the transplants ever have...it's fact and cant be denied by parsing and playing with numbers. They pay more taxes, they pay more in retiree benefits, they contribute on a scale that the transplants couldnt match if they suddenly tripled their investments here...on with the rationalizations.


Like I said earlier, some folks just can't handle the truth.

 

[KrisZ]

I truly don't undeertand the "buy American" or whatever concept. I mean, it's not like Ford and GM are selling their cars in NA only. What if Europe, China and Autralia had the same mentality?

GM is heavily investing in China, Ford is really strong in Europe, but it seems to some this is a one way street, we want everybody in NA to buy domestic and at the same time expect the same from other countries.

 

[cousincletus]

Originally Posted By: Norse
Originally Posted By: bepperb
... and then everything else is based on the manufacturer not the model. Which is fine, but it certainly doesn't reward companies for building things in the US.


It dosen't ?!?!

Well lets see.

Here is Toyota.
% of Cars Sold In U.S.
That Are Made in U.S. 16.3%

Here is GM.
% of Cars Sold In U.S.
That Are Made in U.S. 84%

Here is Ford.
% of Cars Sold In U.S.
That Are Made in U.S. 85%



Even that gives Toyots the benefit of the doubt, because many of their US assembled cars have a lower parts content than the US assembled domestics.

 

[cousincletus]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I truly don't undeertand the "buy American" or whatever concept. I mean, it's not like Ford and GM are selling their cars in NA only. What if Europe, China and Autralia had the same mentality?

GM is heavily investing in China, Ford is really strong in Europe, but it seems to some this is a one way street, we want everybody in NA to buy domestic and at the same time expect the same from other countries.



Look at our trade deficit for the answer to your question.