The energy advocacy paradox/fear of adoption

[edyvw]

EVs are not for everyone. In fact, I can make the case they are expensive toys.
Just like Corvettes, Beemers, Benzes, you name it. No one needs one of these cars.
If I just wanted to go green, a Bolt does everything green a Model 3 does, right?
Of couese then I could not make life miserable for those Vettes, Beemers and Benzes!

A nicely seasoned Camry/Accord and Tundra pretty does it all for a fraction of the price.

You do not need Camry too. You can get away with Yugo.
My BMW does everything Camry would do, just more fun. Takes kids to daycare, get groceries, takes me to ski, in summer takes kids to daycare, then I take it to track (with kids seats in the back), and pick up kids after track. Something Camry/Accord would be struggling with.

 

[Astro14]

Which car are you driving all these miles in?

I alternate. It was the Tundra, this month and last. Summer months, I take the Mercedes, which is a sweet ride in every sense of the word.

TheTesla Model S would be most analogous to the Mercedes.

Honestly, I like the Tesla, but it’s still only a commuter car possibility for me.

 

[SoNic67]

I realize I live in the Silicon Valley bubble. EVs are very popular.

You want zero emission THERE, where you live. You don't care if that electricity and battery is making pollution somewhere else. Either that or you are still in denial stage, that electricity that you use to charge the car at night comes from green solar.

 

[JeffKeryk]

You want zero emission THERE, where you live. You don't care if that electricity and battery is making pollution somewhere else. Either that or you are still in denial stage, that electricity that you use to charge the car at night comes from green solar.

I understand generating electricity uses fossil fuels. And the batteries use rare earth materials.
So do the solar panels I use to run my house and charge the Tesla.
Yes, any electricity I use at night comes from the grid; I do not have battery storage.
But I do send more power to the grid than I consume.

And my other cars use gasoline, especially the GS. Pretty thirsty...

 

[JeffKeryk]

I alternate. It was the Tundra, this month and last. Summer months, I take the Mercedes, which is a sweet ride in every sense of the word.

TheTesla Model S would be most analogous to the Mercedes.

Honestly, I like the Tesla, but it’s still only a commuter car possibility for me.

You don't need a Tesla; you need a Prius... Ha!

 

[4WD]

Aren't cows more renewable than plastic though? LOL!

Vegan petrochemical seats

 

[Astro14]

You don't need a Tesla; you need a Prius... Ha!

Ugh.

At this point in my life, I can afford to pick a car that I like. Many cars in that category.

The Prius is not one of them.

 

[SoNic67]

But I do send more power to the grid than I consume.

You send power back when nobody wants it. There is no viable solution for mass-scale storage of electricity.
So CA power company is forced by politicians to pay you for something that they cannot use.

Actually California gives away free energy to states around them at peak daytime production, and there where times that CA even paid AZ to take away their daytime surplus energy.

California invested heavily in solar power. Now there's so much that other states are sometimes paid to take it

The state's push forward on both fossil fuel and renewable plants has led to excess power — and energy that goes to waste.

www.latimes.com

You won't see too many articles about that, because we live in a world where inconvenient fact reporting was killed.

The total solar energy installed power has to be equally supported by fast-starting natural gas turbines for back-up and night. Those turbines are expensive to build, maintain and operate, because they are usually small in size (need to be fast starting).
The bigger (and more efficient) power plants and the nuclear power plants cannot be throttled that fast.
So that inefficient night time generation (and the investments) resulted in California residents paying 50% per kWh than the average of US.

California Energy Prices Continue to Rise Higher Than Other States – California Globe

californiaglobe.com

PS: I am a firm believer that Hydrogen storage will be the future. You can make Hydrogen with all that excess power during daytime. Store it and use it later in a conventional power plant - making water vapors when is burned.
There is even research in storing hydrogen on board of vehicles.

Hydrogen storage - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sadly a conjuncture of greedy and short-sighted politicians, coupled with huge financial interests and lobby firms lead to this insanity with battery storage on cars. China has the most to gain from this.

 

[Cujet]

You send power back when nobody wants it. There is no viable solution for mass-scale storage of electricity.
So CA power company is forced by politicians to pay you for something that they cannot use.

I've made the point many times that overall electrical power generation "fuel consumption" is not lowered by solar and wind. This is due to the concurrent requirement of less efficient "peaker power plants".

It's also good to note that EV's typically charge at night, so they are not directly or indirectly powered by the sun, despite a large number of claims.

Given enough effort, we can probably get to a point where automotive travel is powered by non fossil fuel burning energy sources. That day will not be in my lifetime. Nor does it address the majority of national energy consumption. As automotive travel is only 14% of national energy use.

We can go "all electric" eventually. That won't reduce energy use one bit.

 

[Snagglefoot]

^^^ In a country where we don’t even have a common cell phone charger ^^^

The guy who came up with the idea of a common phone charger is swimming with the fishes, wearing a pair of cement shoes.

 

[4WD]

The guy who came up with the idea of a common phone charger is swimming with the fishes, wearing a pair of cement shoes.

Hey, listen to me: you know this snowbird they call Snag, yeah ?

 

[Ws6]

How on earth are we ignoring lithium strip mines and cobalt mining?

That said, OP is literally the only person I know who considers the environment when buying a PEV. Everyone else I know who actually owns one does it because novel(less so, now)/performance/money savings. PEV's are inarguably worse for the environment.

 

[Ws6]

You do not need Camry too. You can get away with Yugo.
My BMW does everything Camry would do, just more fun. Takes kids to daycare, get groceries, takes me to ski, in summer takes kids to daycare, then I take it to track (with kids seats in the back), and pick up kids after track. Something Camry/Accord would be struggling with.

The issue is that it also costs a TON more than the Camry to live with. Maintenance is wild.

 

[Ws6]

Also, has anyone considered the ice storm in Texas? A typical Tesla charges at around 12kw. A typical heat pump operates at 17kw when the furnace/strips are being used (as in super cold ice storms...). Texas had a lot of stuff go offline, but then, my area had ZERO stuff go offline...and both areas urged customers to turn off all extra stuff to help prevent overloading, due to the massive increase in heat strips/furnaces blazing. Now...consider if literally EVERYONE turned on a smaller furnace at once every day (6-9pm) when they plugged in those Tesla/equivalents.

Our grid couldn't even come CLOSE to handling JUST the PEV load if everyone were driving PEV's. now factor in all the other stuff people use...including heaters/furnaces.

We just don't have anywhere near the infrastructure at present. Not even close.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Now...consider if literally EVERYONE turned on a smaller furnace at once every day (6-9pm) when they plugged in those Tesla/equivalents.

That's why Tesla's (and probably other EVs) allow you to schedule your charging.
You take advantage of off hour pricing.

 

[Ws6]

That's why Tesla's (and probably other EVs) allow you to schedule your charging.
You take advantage of off hour pricing.

Cool story, but if everyone had one, it still would not work. Too much load on the grid. People are going to get home and plug it in.

 

[Kurtatron]

My favorite kind of green lifestyle habits are those that save money. Eating more plant based foods instead of meats saves money, and happens to be green. Driving a small efficient vehicle saves money on gas. One of my favorites, riding a bicycle to work or grocery store saves money on gas/wear but also provides free exercise. Keeping clothing, smart phones, electronics as long as possible saves money, and also is greener than replacing every year or two. Using electric lawncare appliances (corded) saves money on maintenance, and gas and happen to be substantially cleaner than two-stroke motors.

 

[edyvw]

The issue is that it also costs a TON more than the Camry to live with. Maintenance is wild.

I did spend $37 last 25k on maintenance.
I was hoping for $20 range, but it is BMW after all.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Cool story, but if everyone had one, it still would not work. Too much load on the grid. People are going to get home and plug it in.

Opportunity abounds!

 

[Dinoburner]

As fewer hydrocarbons are produced the price for them goes up causing increased expense for fuel oil, plastics and all the other products. Then there is all the upgrades to the electric grid. On the other hand perhaps it`s time, progress demands it.