My wife recently switched jobs and is now on a large “campus” with a children’s hospital. It’s on the edge of town.
We live 45 minutes away in the country.
The cost of college
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We live 45 minutes away in the country.
What does she do there and how difficult to get there during the winter weather ?
Long story short, she’s a lab scientist by trade.
She drives a loaded 2022 4Runner. It won’t be hard at all.
Can you supply a source. Not saying your wrong, but these are all the fees for my kids at a SEC school - only other items are tuition and residence - which I left off. Perhaps they are skimming money or there is a "transfer" from one department to athletics? They also get free access to a huge gym - 2 pools, climbing wall, etc.
BTW - we don't participate or go to any sporting events - not our thing - so I have no horse in this race so to speak.
I presume out of state pay more?
COL Housing Supp Ed Fee $150.00 --
COL Engr & Comp Program Fee $1,500.00 --
COL Technology Fee $200.00 --
COL Housing Activity Fee $50.00 --
COL Security Network Fee $76.00 --
COL Mail & Pkg Service Fee $35.00
Guess I am just lucky - zero at my kids school. Thanks for posting, definitely an eye opener!
My oldest chose the University of New Hampshire today. I did the arithmetic and when he graduates between my son, wife and me, we'll have 27 years of higher education and if my other two choose to go to go college 35 years. Add some grad school we could be pushing +40 years between the five of us. I'd do it FT if I didn't have to make a living!
Obviously whether or not higher education is "worth it" is being hotly debated as is the cost of higher education. I've said before I am not a fan of forgiving education debt but I do think interest rates are insane and instead of forgiveness it makes sense for interest rates to be adjusted in line with other interest rates. For example, when interest rates were basically zero federal education loans were still +6.5%.
I've had two interesting conversations with people significantly younger than me in the past few months and they were both eye opening.
Both people had college degrees and one a graduate degree. The person with just a college degree had $60k in education debt and the other person with college + grad school had about $90K. Both people make well into the 6 figures at desk jobs and the person with $90K in debt makes about $180K per year 3 years out of school with room for growth. Both people were complaining about their education debt and both are very vocal about the "injustice of the education debt system". Both people also drive +$50k vehicles and both people live in +$500K homes. One is currently spending 10 days at Atlantis with her husband and two kids. Both are married and their significant others also work so I while I don't know their exact circumstances it is really difficult to feel even a shred of sympathy for their education debt. At least superficially, they both seem to have gotten a great deal and both degrees are more than paying for themselves.
They were both finances majors working in finance and that's just pure gold to me and when I think about when I got out of school: 1. After 11 years of school I took the weekend off and started my first job that next Monday; 2. I drove a paid off Toyota Echo and my wife drove a paid off Toyota Corolla for several years after getting out; 3. We rented a townhouse that was too small for our family of 4 because that's what we could afford - I think rent was $1250/month; 4. We did not go on vacation or do anything like that for the first 3 or 4 years and even then our first "vacation" was flying to my in-laws home in Florida. There were definitely some sacrifices that were made to lifestyle and my wife and I knew there would be and that these adjustments would be necessary, at least in the beginning.
Now I get it, if someone went to school for $150K to make $40k per year, that doesn't work, but there are significant number of college grads where the math does/should work crying wolf as well. In the end, I think college is nothing more than a business decision. If $90K gets you $180k/yr 3 or 4 years out with room to go up from there then that's a good deal. If $150k gets you $45k/yr with little room for income growth then not so much.
There's a great saying as a small business owner - when a client/patient says they don't have any money, many times what they are really saying is they don't have any money for YOU. There are still a lot of economic problems that are self-inflicted and due to little more than misguided priorities. All this said, yes, higher education costs are insane and going up every year and we need more people in the trades and my hope is more people will start looking at alternatives to college but higher education still has its place and value.
I've had two interesting conversations with people significantly younger than me in the past few months and they were both eye opening.
Both people had college degrees and one a graduate degree. The person with just a college degree had $60k in education debt and the other person with college + grad school had about $90K. Both people make well into the 6 figures at desk jobs and the person with $90K in debt makes about $180K per year 3 years out of school with room for growth. Both people were complaining about their education debt and both are very vocal about the "injustice of the education debt system". Both people also drive +$50k vehicles and both people live in +$500K homes. One is currently spending 10 days at Atlantis with her husband and two kids. Both are married and their significant others also work so I while I don't know their exact circumstances it is really difficult to feel even a shred of sympathy for their education debt. At least superficially, they both seem to have gotten a great deal and both degrees are more than paying for themselves.
They were both finances majors working in finance and that's just pure gold to me and when I think about when I got out of school: 1. After 11 years of school I took the weekend off and started my first job that next Monday; 2. I drove a paid off Toyota Echo and my wife drove a paid off Toyota Corolla for several years after getting out; 3. We rented a townhouse that was too small for our family of 4 because that's what we could afford - I think rent was $1250/month; 4. We did not go on vacation or do anything like that for the first 3 or 4 years and even then our first "vacation" was flying to my in-laws home in Florida. There were definitely some sacrifices that were made to lifestyle and my wife and I knew there would be and that these adjustments would be necessary, at least in the beginning.
Now I get it, if someone went to school for $150K to make $40k per year, that doesn't work, but there are significant number of college grads where the math does/should work crying wolf as well. In the end, I think college is nothing more than a business decision. If $90K gets you $180k/yr 3 or 4 years out with room to go up from there then that's a good deal. If $150k gets you $45k/yr with little room for income growth then not so much.
There's a great saying as a small business owner - when a client/patient says they don't have any money, many times what they are really saying is they don't have any money for YOU. There are still a lot of economic problems that are self-inflicted and due to little more than misguided priorities. All this said, yes, higher education costs are insane and going up every year and we need more people in the trades and my hope is more people will start looking at alternatives to college but higher education still has its place and value.
It ends when people stop paying it and borrowing to pay for it.
There are always alternatives, state schools, tech, trade and career school programs.
Why should school be cheap when the public is willing to pay whatever is asked?
It is a human condition. A herd mentality for most to pay these costs but not all by any means.
Another example of the herd would be taking out a car loan for greater than 3 years, we are like rodents most will eat ourselves or borrow to death if we can.
It really can simply be broken down to this.
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I don't disagree although there are counterarguments.
1. What I learned in college and grad school is now an invaluable part of me and who I am.
2. There are still lots of jobs/professions that pay significantly better and require a college or graduate degree.
3. We spend too much time at work to not like what we do or get some sense of satisfaction from what we do. There are few things I think I'd enjoy doing day in and day out that do not require a college degree. I'm also crap with a hammer, etc.
4. Why should those with generational wealth get all these benefits but not those without?
But I get it, too many are not at all strategic about this decision and they're just sabotaging their lives with education debt. I think parents need to really sit with their kids and figure out if it make sense. Most of my son's friends are going into the trades and it makes sense for each and everyone of them - nice kids, sharp kids, hardworking kids, clearly don't give a crap about school. My son has money for school and will incur some small debt (my decision that he have "skin in the game") and he has no desire to pursue a trade. His friends are all in different situations.
JTK
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My 3rd child committed to a small school about 1.5hrs away for mechanical engineering for the fall of 2023. Pitt-Bradford. It will be about $24k/yr for him after any Fed/State considerations. He'll have to borrow it all. The thought of it keeps me up at night.
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I didn't read all the pages but elite colleges cost the least, to parents, and students. Last I heard gross income of $60k or less it's free. Up to 250k, 10% of income. What many don't know about is the 4.6% of assets, which some call the saver's penalty. But ironic how an elite education is cheaper than a state university, and leaves the student with 0 debt upon graduation. What has changed since my time? In my time 39% acceptance rate (not easy but not the end of the world), vs. 3-6% today.
I don't believe that legacy has much bearing today (my kid is 9, so correct me if I'm wrong). I just know that a buddy went to Duke and Duke Law. His 3 sons--1 Duke, 1 UNC, 1 NC State. These are all varying degrees of competitiveness. In our parents' times, all 3 kids would have gone to Duke.
I don't believe that legacy has much bearing today (my kid is 9, so correct me if I'm wrong). I just know that a buddy went to Duke and Duke Law. His 3 sons--1 Duke, 1 UNC, 1 NC State. These are all varying degrees of competitiveness. In our parents' times, all 3 kids would have gone to Duke.
That is true. Many of the elite colleges and universities went to need-blind admissions, and full need based aid, many years ago. Williams College, with the oldest alumni society in the US, and a strong endowment, was among the first, and many of its peers among small liberal arts colleges, and the Ivy League, followed suit. E.G.
https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid
https://finaid.yale.edu/
https://www.williams.edu/admission-aid/financial-aid/
From the Williams website:
Williams meets 100 percent of demonstrated need, with no loans or work-study expectation. And we’re one of only a few colleges in the country that guarantees free textbooks and course materials to all students receiving financial aid.
College should be affordable, and applying for aid should be easy: contact us with financial aid questions at any time.
I‘ve put six kids through college. Six. All four year schools. All good schools. I’ve got some experience with this.
In another thread, I posted:
One point that was made about schools like Stanford bears repeating - if you can get in, you can afford to go.
Yeah, they’re north of $75,000/year for room, board and tuition, but that is list price, and their financial aid is incredible. 80% of the kids going to Harvard receive Financial Aid. Further, if the parents make less than $80,000/year, financial aid covers 100% of the cost.
E.G. A young lady in the Harvard class of 2019 was born and raised on a Reservation in Wyoming. She was the first person in her family to go to college. Harvard paid for everything. I mean everything. Room, board, tuition, fees, books, spending money, and plane tickets to/from Casper at the beginning and end of each semester.
Her parents didn’t have to pay anything.
TL;DR The elite schools are generous with aid, if you can get in, you can afford to go.
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Looks like the thresholds have changed, i.e. the $80k you mention. I have a colleague whose son went to PENN. He told me it cost them $0. This actually signaled to me at the time, that his household is < $60k of income. I had a friend whose daughter went to Yale who told me about the then 4.6% saver's penalty. She was a waitress so it did matter--she said not trying to look a gift horse in the mouth as her daughter getting in was like winning the lottery for she and her husband, but the 4.6% was a bummer, as if they struggle to save and have to pay an additional fee, as a result.
btw at the public HS that I went to, Williams College was where all the top ranking kids went. In a class of only 380, 7 went there.
edit p.s.--does this imply schools were "not" need-blind 30+ years ago? I know I required financial aid. And from memory colleges stated they were need blind, i.e. you don't get rejected because you need aid (others theorized i.e. parents). To hint at my age, the most expensive college in the nation was $17k back then and really, the most competitive colleges had a 19% acceptance, with the easier Ivys at 39%.
We don't qualify for any need-based aid. My son is a solid B+ average kid who basically worked and skied on his own time as his only extracurriculars and so I was surprised that both some state and private schools gave him merit money. Now none of the private schools were "elite" but some were still $60k to $70K per year and offering him $30-40K per year making them equivalent to UMass. It looks like the game for the more expensive private schools is to give just enough money to make them equivalent to a state school if state schools gave no money. I was surprised some of the UMass schools gave him additional money (one $10K per year which represents ⅓ of the total cost) and others not a cent.
There's more money out there than I initially thought and I assumed every school would be the full cost for me.
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Supply and demand. Back in the day a small % of high school graduates even applied to a college, fewer actually attended and graduated.
Now days, even parents of kids who have a hard time reading or putting together a sentence want their kids to go to school, preferably an ivy league college. There are enough colleges that will graduate these kinds of kids assuming the parents checks or government loans keep coming in.
Now days, even parents of kids who have a hard time reading or putting together a sentence want their kids to go to school, preferably an ivy league college. There are enough colleges that will graduate these kinds of kids assuming the parents checks or government loans keep coming in.
Back in the I went to Albright College in Reading. It was $300/semester for tuition. I lived at home. After 3 years I went up to PSU for 2 years and 3 months. I would guess that was $700/year. I worked two summers as a quarry driller helper. In those two summers I made $4,000. One summer washing dishes and one summer at Airco got me about 1700.
So college cost : 3400 + transportation + Books = say $800 (Books were cheap): $4200
I earned $5700. But..my parents paid my college.
I know-off topic.
So college cost : 3400 + transportation + Books = say $800 (Books were cheap): $4200
I earned $5700. But..my parents paid my college.
I know-off topic.
Determining need is the critical calculation in all of this. They figure out what you can afford to pay, and grant the difference between that and what they charge in the form of aid.
There are three “colors” of money used when determining financial need - a perspective gained by having done the FAFSA about 15 times, and having talked with financial aid folks at several schools.
First, there is the kid’s money. 529, education IRA, Coverdell, UGMTA, savings account, cash, whatever. If it’s in the kid’s name, it is 100% available for college.
Next, there is parent‘s money. Both in the form of salary, and cash on hand. This is where the “saver penalty” comes in. If you’ve saved money to pay for college, then, it is available for college. Some percentage of both salary and savings is available. The precise percentage varies by institution, but parents are expected to support their kid.
Finally, there is parent retirement savings. Parents 401(k), parent IRA, accrued pension, etc. this is not, repeat, not, available to pay for college.
When colleges look at ability to pay, that’s the supply side. What’s available.
Then, they look at the need side. Multiple kids in school simultaneously, increases need. Shortfall between need and ability is where financial aid is applied. Determination of the shortfall and aid varies by institution. More on this in a bit.
So, two important points:
1. The aid award varies by institution. Academic year 2011-2012 was a particularly difficult one for us: oldest step son in one college with in state tuition, middle step son at another college with in state tuition, step daughter at a third in state college and my daughter at an elite school. Yes, that was four kids in college at the same time.
Three in state schools. One elite school. The elite school was the cheapest, by far, even though the advertised price was more than double that of any of the three in state schools.
2. As a financial planning consideration, when prioritizing between your retirement and paying for kids college, fully find your retirement first. Many parents get this completely wrong. Many financial planners get this wrong as well. There are lots of ways to pay for college; go to community college for two years and transfer, scholarship, financial aid, ROTC, serve in the military, work, borrow, or a combination of the preceding.
None of those options will work for retirement. Many parents feel a sense of obligation, and I understand and appreciate that, but saving cash for college at the expense of under funding retirement both decreases potential financial aid and ensures a shortfall in retirement that can’t be made up. A double penalty. A huge mistake.
The cost of college has vastly out-paced inflation. While your experience isn’t off topic, it’s a relic of a different time.
Albright College this past year was $45,000 before aid, for room, board, and tuition.
Harvard this past year was $78,000 for the same. Harvard will exceed $80,000 this coming year.
Not many kids working part time during college are going to clear $45,000, even working hard in the quarry.
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