That Oil w/the Dye In It.

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JUST PASSING THIS ON:

The RP SAE 5W30 part # 01530 is a gasoline rated oil and as such - TBN is not a relevant value as a TBN test is important for measuring the remaining base additive capacity to neutralizing the sulfur that used to be present in diesel fuel. Since sulfur has been removed from both diesel fuels and gasoline - this value has very little importance in motor oils in North America.
The RP 5W30 starts with a 12 TBN.
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HTHS can be influenced by additive technology and again - is not a deciding value in comparing oils of differing formulations unless it is just in left field.
RP 5W30 HTHS value is 3.5.
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VI or viscosity index is a unit less number and again can be influence by additives such as VI improvers and is not always a indicator for comparing oil a with oil b.
RP 5W30 VI is 157.
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Cheers,

david

David Canitz
Tech Services
Royal Purple Inc.
1 Royal Purple lane
Porter, TX 77365
281.354.8600
 
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Interesting comment about TBN. Makes sense, as many 'Euro' oils have very, very low TBN's but are designed to go up to 18k miles on OLM systems.

IF TBN stops being a relevant measure; what do you use to determine the condemnation point for an oil? Insols.?
 
What they are implying is true regarding TBN: For most of us, there is plenty of TBN left even at 5K, 10K, 20K or 25K miles when some change oil. (or whatever the factory interval is if still under warranty).

Chances are, wear metals or soot/insolubles will be a bigger problem before TBN.
 
Interesting post, I thought that TBN was the MAJOR consideration in the length of your OCI, for both TIME and MILEAGE !

Aren't there acids developed in oil used in gas engines also?

A quote from "Biodiesel Magizine"

"Historically in the context of acids, the lubricant additive business has largely been focused on formulations that help combat sulfuric acid damage. Before many of the recent sulfur limitations on diesel fuel went into effect, sulfur content in diesel fuel ranged from unlimited to 5,000 parts per million (ppm) to 500 ppm. Now, however, on-road diesel fuel
contains a maximum of only 15 ppm sulfur.

“Much of the historical effort had been in neutralizing sulfuric acids, and now much of the sulfur issues have gone away,” Parsons said. “But now we’re talking about putting this organic material in the oil, which forms organic acids, so part of what we’ve done is tailored our formulation to address those organic acids in order to prevent oxidation of the fatty acid methyl ester in the oil. That’s why it’s called for special research and development in that area—because it’s different than what’s been done historically.”
 
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
Interesting post, I thought that TBN was the MAJOR consideration in the length of your OCI, for both TIME and MILEAGE !

Aren't there acids developed in oil used in gas engines also?


It is one of the major metrics for determining when an oil is ready to be changed: wear metals, fuel content, TBN, soot/insolubles, viscosity and remaining additives. Probably a few others I've missed.

Depending on the engine and driving conditions, any one of these could be the limiting factor before the others. In the past, TBN might have been used up well before any of the other metrics reached abnormal levels (changing otherwise good oil), but now, not that's not as often the case. Now it might be visco or fuel etc. that goes abnormal first.
 
Another quote from "Polaris Laboratories":


Test Diesel Engines For Base Number, Natural Gas Engines For Acid Number.


Base Number

Testing a lubricant's base number measures its alkaline reserve — or its ability to neutralize degradation acids. Although viscosity is most important, base number determines an oil's suitability for continued use and is critical to safely extending drain intervals. A decrease in base number is typically accompanied by an increase in oxidation, nitration and viscosity.

Sulfur from fuel and nitrogen from the air — when combined with water — form sulfuric and nitric acids that will attack engine metals causing wear that can eventually result in engine failure. To combat combustion byproduct acids, diesel engine oils contain acid neutralizing detergent additives — the most common being magnesium and calcium.

New diesel engine oils typically have a starting base number between 8 and 12. It is generally recommended that diesel engine oil be changed when the starting base number is 50% of the new oil. For example, an engine oil with a starting base number of 10 should be changed if the base number test result is less than 5.0 mg KOH/g.

More about Total Base Number
Acid Number

Engines fueled by natural gas, on the other hand, operate at higher temperatures than diesel engines requiring lubricating oils with lower ash content. Higher temperatures cause the metal sulfates in barium, magnesium, calcium and phosphorus-based additives to form engine deposits. These ash deposits then cause valves to stick reducing engine efficiency. In addition, excessive concentrations of ash can form in glassy deposits on natural gas engine exhaust catalysts reducing their ability to control harmful emissions.

Typical low ash natural gas engine oil has one third the amount of detergent and one fourth the amount of anti-wear additives as diesel engine oil which leaves them just as vulnerable as diesel engines to the degradation acids produced by combustion. Testing for acid content and monitoring the rate at which these acids form becomes the objective in determining a natural gas engine oil's suitability for continued use or safely extending drain intervals. An increase in acid number is typically accompanied by an increase in oxidation, nitration and viscosity.

The starting acid number of new oil is determined by the amount of acid present from additives. Typical new low ash or ashless natural gas engine oils have a starting acid number between 0.7 to 1.00 mg KOH/g. The general recommendation is to change the oil when the acid number is four times the acid number of the new oil. For example, a natural gas engine oil with a starting acid number of 1.00 mg KOH/g should be changed when the acid number test result is 4.00 mg KOH/g or greater.

More about Total Acid Number



More About Total Base Number

The two most common ASTM test methods for testing base number — ASTM D-2896 and ASTM D-4739. ASTM D-2896 measures both detergents and dispersants and is the preferred base number test method for new (unused) engine oils. ASTM D-4739 measures detergents and is the preferred base number test method for in-service engine oil. It is important to note the difference as it is possible for the detergents in an in-service oil to be depleted but the dispersants be intact. If this is the case, ASTM D-2896 results would not indicate that an oil change was necessary.

The base number test is performed by diluting the sample with a mixed solvent in a reaction beaker. While mixing, hydrochloric acid is titrated to chemically react with alkaline components (detergents) in the sample. When the end point of the chemical reaction is reached, the amount of titrant used is converted to the result and reported in milligrams of potassium hydroxide equivalent per gram of sample (mg of KOH/g).
More About Total Acid Number

ASTM D-644 is the test method for monitoring the degradation acid content of in-service oil. The acid number test method is performed by diluting the sample with a mixed solvent in a reaction beaker. While mixing, potassium hydroxide is titrated to chemically react with acidic components in the sample. When the end point of the chemical reaction is reached, the amount of titrant used is reported in milligrams of potassium hydroxide equivalent per gram of sample (mg of KOH/g).
 
Originally Posted By: labman
OK, so as sulfur has gone down, the TBN in UOA's should go up for the millage?



Starting TBN has gone down too though.
 
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