Poor management. Same with Ford.
Tesla Stock
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Still got both. I'm a Chicago Cub fan too. Slumps don't bother me much.
The stock market is speculation, more so in the short term, and TSLA is a volatile stock.
Putting all your money on any one particular stock is a huge gamble. My TSLA investment is a tiny percent of my portfolio.
You need to be able to roll with the blows; long term diversification allows for this.
I am long on TSLA and just about everything else I own, and I am very diversified with most products leaning conservative. Quite the opposite of TSLA.
I wish you well in your investing endeavors.
Putting all your money on any one particular stock is a huge gamble. My TSLA investment is a tiny percent of my portfolio.
You need to be able to roll with the blows; long term diversification allows for this.
I am long on TSLA and just about everything else I own, and I am very diversified with most products leaning conservative. Quite the opposite of TSLA.
I wish you well in your investing endeavors.
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Why not post year by year for the last decade GMs earnings compared to Tesla?
Your statement doesn’t make sense. GMs worst year in ten years was Teslas best.
Stock prices in the auto industry stink and that’s why Tesla is a gamble it to should and may be down another 50% or more one day, like it was in Jan.
Talk about gambles, Tesla down $200 a share is telling you they are overpriced. It deserves to be $75
Now let’s talk bitcoin too
if you want public rational for Teslas price there is no rational other then speculation on its future but that is not current profit.
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I believe @UncleDave is referring to stock performance.
You are correct in total revenue dollars, but not in all financial metrics. For example, the market dinged Tesla's drop to 17.9% margins; GM would kill for those margins. Ditto for every major car manufacturer.
Gross margin measures business efficiency at the product level, best measured at the BU level. A higher gross margin means a company retains more capital.
Gross Margin is a key financial metric as it measures mfg efficiency and sales price ratios; it is useful in comparing like market segments. In it's most basic form, it measures the return on dollars invested in manufacturing products. But like all metrics, not all companies use the same components, especially on the cost summation.
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Why not post year by year for the last decade GMs earnings compared to Tesla?
Your statement doesn’t make sense. GMs worst year in ten years was Teslas best.
Atock prices in the auto industry stink and that’s why Tesla is a gamble it to should and may be down another 50% or more one day, like it was in Jan.
Talk about gambles, Tesla down $200 a share is telling you they are overpriced. It deserves to be $75
Now let’s talk bitcoin too
Earnings dont equal stock price.
I dont care how much a company earns if my stock goes down.
Here's the numbers. Any one here can run them.
I didn't put all my eggs in the Tesla basket. Even if I loose the entire investment it won't probably match the predictable depreciation on your Tesla.
Likely we're both long on Tesla.
I just checked tesla's 1mth chart and now I'm very tempted to buy as it seems to look like it'll at least partially recover within a month. But it could go down more next week so one ever knows. Tesla is risky right now but it could be the time to buy.
Yeah, I shoulda bought the stock instead of the car in Dec 2018. But according to all the experts Tesla was sure to be belly up any day back then, so there's that.
As an early adopter of the Model 3, I absolutely knew the depreciation had to be substantial. It was a gift for wifey; I did not even test drive the car as I had had surgery and didn't want to drive it... In hind sight I only wish I would have bought the Performance version!
A vehicle vs stock comparison is a bit odd... A car is a depreciating asset and a consumable product, as compared to a stock which is a speculative bet based on future stock performance.
As you say, I believe we are both long on TSLA which means we are leaning bullish. I am and I wish you luck!
My TSLA investment is less than 1% of the portfolio, so it is insignificant in the big scheme of things.
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That's the point, Tesla maybe $70 a share in the future it will be priced closer to the rest of the world automobile industry. For some weird reason you think I am promoting GM. Im using GM as an example, pick Toyota as an example instead. Pick any auto company.
Specualtion in Tesla is nothing more than that. Just like speculating in bitcoin. Guessing what the future holds for something that doesnt yet exist. They certainly haven't been able to execute anything new recently.
Tesla hit a wall and its back to reality, it does nothing that the legacy makers dont already do. So it should be fairly valued at about 1/4th of its current price. Now that everyone will be selling the same product as they do they have no place to go but down.
Ps, you left out the one year charts on GM which will show it unchanged until the strike
You will also notice Tesla's one year chart unchanged.
Yet Tesla sells at over 60 times earnings and GM 4.5 times earnings.
My personal belief is Tesla will someday be at 15 times earnings, about 1/4 or 1/3rd of its current price will bring it into line with the industry unless one of their projects finally bears some fruit.
Truck is a disaster, Solar is a disaster, I dont know what can save them at this point. AI maybe, self driving (I doubt already there are others) Also their automobile line up is a disaster in the sense they will never overtake the big guys with two cars or even three cars.
Both charts stink but one company makes money every year for ten years (GM) and sells at 4.5 times earnings and coming in higher than projections all year. Granted the UAW might kill them ...
The top chart, gone no where, sells at 60+ times earnings only made money a couple years (Tesla) and been coming in below projections. There is to me a lot of long term risk here, such as the expiration of taxpayer subsides. Tesla is already struggling with margins and has no other product.
PS you can replace GM with Toyota the second largest USA car company and largest in the world. the P/E is still boat loads less than Tesla. So all I want to know is when will Tesla stock price catch up with earnings ?
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I dont think you are promoting GM, but I think you are conflating earnings, size and market share with stock performance.
Both YTD and year on year are in the post. Both down. Stocks are speculation - period regardless of the name.
The products are not the same, any more than products powered using an ICE are the same.
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Not poor management
Yes UAW - You wont even hear Musk knock the management of GM if Musk is your guy the you would believe he is knowledgable, you would then believe him when he says it is the UAW.
Their latest offer =
01:59 PM EDT, 10/20/2023 (MT Newswires) -- General Motors (GM) said Friday it has made an offer to the United Auto Workers that would raise most unionized workers' pay to $40.39 per hour, or around $84,000 per year.
"We have made substantial movement in all key areas in an effort to reach a final agreement with the UAW and get our people back to work," GM said in a statement.
The automaker said it would also continue to offer health insurance coverage with no out-of-pocket premiums or deductibles to senior workers.
The UAW did not immediately respond to a request for comment by MT Newswires on the offer.
Meanwhile, Bloomberg reported late Thursday that the sides are close to a tentative deal, citing a union negotiator.
A union spokesperson earlier Friday told MT Newswires that UAW President Shawn Fain would make make a comment at 4 pm ET on Facebook Live.
@UncleDave
Now look at what you made me do ...
GM
Boy talk about jumping into a fire of a company one strike UAW
Could be long, could be a day, week, month, who knows
Now look at what you made me do ...
GMBoy talk about jumping into a fire of a company one strike UAW
Could be long, could be a day, week, month, who knows
No, Im not confused (just discussing btw I THINK you know that)
Im in a period of my life that large speculations are not needed nor do I want large risk at the expense of maybe larger rewards.
They are both automobile companies at the present time. Im sorry but to me the products are the same as far as the majority of the public goes. It's just a different engine. To an enthusiastic they are not the same.
The public is what counts. The only public that I know that has a Tesla, newer Model 3 says the car is ok, nothing more. She has a tail light brake light that isnt working correctly, supposedly been three months and still waiting for it. ( I will say she is a little crazy so take it with a grain of salt) Either that or she could buy it herself. They also drove to another state to have it replaced but for some reason ... oh never mine *LOL*
So like an idiot *LOL* because I am been watching GM dive I bought a significant amount of GM on Friday as you see.
Why? I think there is sooooo much bad news with this strike that everything is built into the price now.
I look at Tesla, if I bought a boat load of that on Friday, which I would never do but I would be wondering if it will go up or down to it previous low or around 108 and if it does it will still be around 30 times earns, double that of Toyota I think. I dont see GM going down to 15 with earnings P/E of 2.25%
I was hoping for some joy and a UAW settlement and cringed at 4PM *LOL* when UAW President said he wants more *LOL*
Boy I hope I dont regret this but like Bitcoin or Tesla or many others, this is my spec account. I certainly DO NOT want to lose money *LOL* I just dont think I will, my investment goal would be a quick 10% or 20% ... things change, todays thought.
For the record, GM stock has gone no place for the 4 decades I have played with it. On and off. I wouldnt recommend it to anyone!
*LOL* But I know pretty much how it behaves short term and I know I wont take a big loss in it. I always stayed in short term at bottoms and got out after a respectable return, other times (just this year) I have a short term respectable 20ish% gain and got greedy, held it and lost it all except for a couple percent if that but no loss. I doubt I would ever hold it long term.
I actually think it is a trading play by institutions for the last 4 decades or more. You can get some gains with limited down side. I would NEVER *LOL* buy it much above $35 a share.
I actually seriously considered buying Tesla when it went down into the low 100's months back, VERY serious but I couldn't bring myself to do it, regret it? Not really many stocks throughout my life come and go. What made me nervous is where to you "catch a falling knife" ? It's hard on a falling stock selling at such a high multiple, could be things in the closest that isnt public yet.
Now GM down significantly, I feel like the knife is fallen and stuck in the wood plank, so feel safer at the low PE but if this strike continues ... and I think it may... for the UAW to turn down the offer amazes me. GM and the others might purposely look to drive themselves into the ground to get the union inline for the future.
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Confused- no, look at stocks differently. Yes.
I don't think you see the same value in the company many do. I'm guessing you never have.
You certainly aren't alone.
I got out of tesla early after what I thought was a good run up, pigs get slaughtered I never lost money taking profit but it was the wrong move.
I didn't buy back in so I understand your position.
I also understand many of the fundamentals with tesla are out of line. What is the value of 30,000 chargers?
What is the value to having said chargers become the global automotive standard? It's hard to say.
To people have this or that problem with anything. Even rock solid Honda and Toyotas have problems.
To people that have no experience they may seem the same, but to those that have traveled with them and lived with them for any amount of time you quickly learn the electrics may all share the same energy source but they are vastly different - far more than Ice are from one another.
Only a few are truly interchangeable with ice on a daily basis.
For the most part gasoline cars are pretty fungible and work all but the same with few exceptions.
Your traverse is pretty much the same thing as my XT5. A civic is a lot like a corolla.
I want all American companies to succeed. Even though I may not particularly like Musk or Barra, and Lutz became embarrassing.
Having see a strike decimate my hometown growing up (peoria IL caterpillar 73?) I'm angry with the UAW and the GM and Ford for not meeting somewhere workable quicker. You know Im still mad at GM from the bankruptcy but want them to succeed. I see some of the same arrogance that led to the prior downfall and it irritates me.
Although we disagree on Tesla we agree on far more that we disagree on,
I'd enjoy meeting you someday if it came to it. Maybe even go for a ride.
I hope you do well on your investment and GM kills it.
UD
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Great management, what other companies that you are comparing to say less. GM blowing the doors off growth and earnings. The worst GM year in earnings in the last ten years is almost the best ever year that Tesla has had in it history which by the way only made money in the last year or two out of those ten years.
Show me another UAW union automobile company doing better. It's impossible when you dont have control of your company.
I type this as Ford just reached an agreement, Ford is in a tight spot and cant afford to go on, so they sold out and agreed to union demands that GM is still resisting. Turning over more control to the UAW as far as operations and plant closings. I dont care so much, have no sympathy for the UAW and most workers dont either which is why membership is at a historic all time low. But they still ahve a stranglehold on the auto companies. They have since branched out to the education field.
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Calif code still "requires" solar for the majority of 1-4 family residential so there's that.
For new homes yes. Also why the NEM contract was changed.
The market was split between retrofitting an existing house and the freshly minted law requiring mandatory panels on new housing.
Combine the contract change with mandatory solar for new housing and the the power companies basically get to steal the productivity for pennies from new homeowners while selling the free power to everyone else for premium prices.
The new homeowner is forced to deal with the ownership expense but gets little of the benefit - biggest boon for the power companies ever.
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