Tesla Stock

[JeffKeryk]

A big pro for Tesla is that Ford, GM, and Stellantis are struggling with unions. The competitors are also struggling to produce and sell large numbers of electric trucks.

A con for Tesla is that they have been reducing vehicle prices.

To me, it's not a clear Buy nor a clear Sell at this moment. Low $200's is my entry point.

I am not sure that is a con. Sure, margins suffer, but gain in economies of scale. Profits gain if sales continue to increase. The lower prices put pressure on the already strapped competition. Remember, Tesla is the only company who makes money on EVs.

Tesla is going for full factory utilization and increased market domination. Cash flow is everything in business.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Tesla has been flat for two years with no dividend and is facing an absolute wall of competition.

 

[demarpaint]

Tesla has been flat for two years with no dividend and is facing an absolute wall of competion.

There's that and if China figures out a way to stick it to TSLA like they did to AAPL traders/investors will get a better entry point. Even if it just for a short time.

 

[97prizm]

He has dismantled Twitter out of spite. I don’t consider that a genius maneuver, but can appreciate having faith in something.

Yeah and the Muskrat just posted that Twitter could go under by next year. So much for $44 Bills well spent

 

[zzyzzx]

I have no issues with Musk, Tesla, or electric vehicles in general (in fact I'd love to own an electric vehicle as a second car at some point). But some stocks, Tesla being one of them, I view more like gambling rather than investing.

One reason Tesla looks good for comparison purposes is that they are finally making money. People look at established automakers and wonder why their EV's are money losing, but then forget how many years Tesla lost money making EV's.

 

[97prizm]

I have no issues with Musk, Tesla, or electric vehicles in general (in fact I'd love to own an electric vehicle as a second car at some point). But some stocks, Tesla being one of them, I view more like gambling rather than investing.

One reason Tesla looks good for comparison purposes is that they are finally making money. People look at established automakers and wonder why their EV's are money losing, but then forget how many years Tesla lost money making EV's.

They lost money for so long they almost went bankrupt.

 

[JeffKeryk]

All-electric car registrations in Q1-Q2 2023 (vs previous year):

1. Tesla: 888,879 and 21.7% share (vs. 19%)
2. BYD Group: 615,064 and 15% share (vs. 11%)
3. Volkswagen Group: 311,359 and 7.6% share (vs. 7.3%)
4. SAIC (incl. SAIC-GM-Wuling): 308,899 and 7.5% share (vs. 10.8%)
5. Geely-Volvo: 236,847 and 5.8% share

 

[JeffKeryk]

They lost money for so long they almost went bankrupt.

Yep, that how start ups work. Now they are the most valuable car company in the world, by far. More valuable than the next 10+ car companies combined.

 

[alarmguy]

I went back and did a quick calculation. My Tesla is ~3%. Lilly also 3% so together maybe 6%.

That certainly is very reasonable.

 

[97prizm]

Yep, that how start ups work. Now they are the most valuable car company in the world, by far. More valuable than the next 10+ car companies combined.

As of this quarter Toyota is now more profitable than Tesla. Didn't you get all giddy with how profitable Tesla was and how they are "destroying " the competition?

 

[Passport1]

hat certainly is very reasonable.

Geeze I'm having trouble with math this morning. The two stocks I cited are together about 1.8%. No more math today for me.

 

[JeffKeryk]

As of this quarter Toyota is now more profitable than Tesla. Didn't you get all giddy with how profitable Tesla was and how they are "destroying " the competition?

Profitable in sheer dollars or margin?
How is Toyota's EV business going? It's stock? Remember, this thread is about stock, right?

Don't get me wrong, I love Toyotas; I own 2. They finally wised up and kicked Toyoda upstairs; now they are doing better.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Geeze I'm having trouble with math this morning. The two stocks I cited are together about 1.8%. No more math today for me.

Short term thinking about investments, especially volatile stock like TSLA, is best left to the pundits.
It's a marathon, not a sprint.

 

[Passport1]

It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Very true but at a certain age even a marathon becomes a sprint.

I am conflicted about buying a stock when I wouldn't buy their product or urge others to buy it.

 

[97prizm]

Profitable in sheer dollars or margin?
How is Toyota's EV business going? It's stock? Remember, this thread is about stock, right?

Don't get me wrong, I love Toyotas; I own 2. They finally wised up and kicked Toyoda upstairs; now they are doing better.

Toyota unseated Tesla as the most profitable car company in the world when it announced its earnings for its most recent fiscal quarter on Tuesday.
The shake-up comes from a combination of factors; Tesla cut vehicle prices several times this year in order to boost the volume of vehicles sold, but at the expense of profit margins. When it initially claimed the profit’s crown in 2021, the company made some of its profits on strategies such as selling regulatory credits and investing in Bitcoin, rather than selling cars. Toyota, meanwhile, made its bundle of cash on selling more cars than anyone expected — 2.3 million vehicles for $74 billion over an expected $69 billion. That’s double the company’s previous quarter’s profits, according to Reuters. A benefit of the 2021's chip shortage finally abating.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Toyota unseated Tesla as the most profitable car company in the world when it announced its earnings for its most recent fiscal quarter on Tuesday.
The shake-up comes from a combination of factors; Tesla cut vehicle prices several times this year in order to boost the volume of vehicles sold, but at the expense of profit margins. When it initially claimed the profit’s crown in 2021, the company made some of its profits on strategies such as selling regulatory credits and investing in Bitcoin, rather than selling cars. Toyota, meanwhile, made its bundle of cash on selling more cars than anyone expected — 2.3 million vehicles for $74 billion over an expected $69 billion. That’s double the company’s previous quarter’s profits, according to Reuters. A benefit of the 2021's chip shortage finally abating.

That's primarily because the prior quarter was so bad, as you say. Tesla is the only company that managed the chip shortage very well.
Tesla is not the only company that had the option to sell carbon credits.
Sure, Tesla's margins drop as prices are lowered. But they are still the envy of the industry. That's leverage.

Any car company that can compete with the mighty Toyota is doing pretty well.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

Geeze I'm having trouble with math this morning. The two stocks I cited are together about 1.8%. No more math today for me.

Since the amount of the two stocks is fixed, the estimated total of your investment assets must be increasing for the percentages to go from 6% initially to 1.8% now. Rejoice! You are 3 and 1/3rd times more well off than you thought!
That is how I'd reframe it rather than call it a math error.

 

[alarmguy]

I am conflicted about buying a stock when I wouldn't buy their product or urge others to buy it.

Ahhhhh … that is one of Warren Buffett’s golden rules
Seriously I’m not looking to ruffle feathers in here, to me the Model 3 is outdated, compared to the new vehicles coming on the market from all the manufacturers.
But forget all that, because models do get updated, yet what does Tesla have two models that realistically the population at large will buy compared to dozens of models that will be coming out from other manufacturers

My neighbor has one and honestly to me it looks like an economy car, which there is nothing wrong with but it’s the same price range as all the other cars that don’t look or feel like economy cars.
Without question running around town commuting into a city that’s what economy car does but in this price range nah no thank you.
Anyway, I agree with you, I am looking forward to the next few years to see what develops in the car market itself, will EVs be widely excepted or not. That is a question that will be answered. I suspect the media hype will wear down but one thing for sure EVs are here to stay because they do fulfill the needs of many.

The one, and only question that will remain is will there be a surplus of EV vehicles compared to the amount the buyers who want one? Yes

 

[DwightFrye]

I agree that the styling of the Model 3 and Model Y is nothing to write home about, even with the recent refresh.
But that doesn't seem to matter to Tesla buyers. They continue to sell every one they make.

And the Tesla detractors sure have a short memory with regards to fuel pricing and/or shortages. We could see $8 a gallon prices overnight as well as long lines and shortages at the pumps. More and more people will be driven (no pun intended) to buy an EV.
Which manufacturers will be best positioned to meet that demand ? I'll give you one guess and it won't be those who don't have competitive models available. And don't have the resources to increase production to meet that demand almost overnight.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I agree that the styling of the Model 3 and Model Y is nothing to write home about, even with the recent refresh.
But that doesn't seem to matter to Tesla buyers. They continue to sell every one they make.

And the Tesla detractors sure have a short memory with regards to fuel pricing and/or shortages. We could see $8 a gallon prices overnight as well as long lines and shortages at the pumps. More and more people will be driven (no pun intended) to buy an EV.
Which manufacturers will be best positioned to meet that demand ? I'll give you one guess and it won't be those who don't have competitive models available. And don't have the resources to increase production to meet that demand almost overnight.

Probably true, especially if/when a true $25K EV is available. But there are so many factors, so many use cases.