Tesla Model Y 1 piece frame from GigaPress

[JeffKeryk]

Hundreds of parts, welds, glue, labor and discrepancies all eliminated by 1 ultra strong part.
If and when the Model 3 uses a 1 piece frame, I am a buyer. This thing is rigid! I would love to see a driving comparison of the new frame vs the original car.

I have not watched a Munro vid in a while, but this one discussing the Giga Casting was just what I have been curious about.
From a financial standpoint, this type of manufacturing is a big part of Tesla's incredible margins due to cost saving.
Tesla is so fr ahead of the pack.

 

[ecotourist]

That casting is just amazing. Be sure to watch the video that JeffKeryk linked to above.

 

[Ws6]

Rigid yes, but repairable?

 

[NismoNVT]

The munro team is excellent, and really show how dedicated and passionate they are about their craft. However alot of their solutions or critiques they come with are pushing for ways to improve costs sustain by mfgs by reducing the ease of repair on these vehicles moving forward.

Tesla is leading the pack if thats all that matters. The basics of the vehicle still seem to fall flat such as fit and finish. On the opposite end we have OEMs who cant seem to make the powertrain anything in the realm of Tesla but can make everything else well.

The brand that can do both will rule them all, and I do think it may not come from the status quo (tesla included).

 

[Spyderman24_7]

Rigid yes, but repairable?

As well as hopefully a high melt point, bwahahaha...

 

[ecotourist]

Tesla is leading the pack if thats all that matters. The basics of the vehicle still seem to fall flat such as fit and finish.

Everyone talks about poor Tesla fit and finish. I was worried about it and really checked mine out at delivery. I can't speak for them all but my Tesla Model 3 was delivered with very good fit and finish. And after a year it's till rattle free.

I suspect talk about poor Tesla fit and finish problems is old news.

 

[UncleDave]

Rigid yes, but repairable?

Yes.

 

[DwightFrye]

Rigid yes, but repairable?

That's a very good point. Although it may be more of a perceived liability than a real one. It doesn't take much to total a car these days. Most manufacturers are now building cars with "crumple zones" designed to protect passengers and doing a very good job of it.

So a collision that is hard enough to bend the frame is also likely to do enough body damage that the insurance companies will just total the vehicle. Which is one reason that insurance costs continue to rise. I think those shops that straighten frames aren't going to be around in another decade or less.

Tesla has the advantage in being able to start with a clean slate in their designs and utilize equipment like giga castings, and they have the cash to invest in such things. Not withstanding the brain power to come up with those kind of innovations and factory space or real estate to expand their production lines to utilize new production techniques and equipment.

The legacy automakers are still hampered by the amount of capital needed and their requirements to keep their production going on ICE vehicles to keep their cash flow going.

I really feel for them, if two or three of the major automakers can market competitive EV's by 2025 and make enough profit that they are introducing new and improved models by 2028 they are going to be very lucky.

Regarding the so called "fit and finish" issues of Teslas, they are becoming so popular that it isn't difficult to check one out whenever you see one parked somewhere. If you see the owners, strike up a conversation with them. Ask if they have had issues. Ask if you can give their cars a good close up look. I think you will find most of them friendly and eager to talk about their cars. Decide for yourself and don't just go by what you read on the internet.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Rigid yes, but repairable?

Great question; probably everyone's first. The thing to understand is the casting product consistancy. There is near zero discrepancy in each casted instance.
To repair a damaged corner, or whatever, the damaged area can be cut out and a new piece welded in. It is actually easy because of the consistancy of the parts. Tesla is all about standards and efficiency. They may even have specific places to cut for repairs.

In the video, Munro speaks to this very topic and declares it far better than traditional frame structures. He compares the 3 iterations of Tesla 3/Y frames, from hundreds of parts (which he strongly criticized) to the better 2nd iteration to the Giga Casted 1 piece part.
If you have a manufacturing background, you can understand the benefit of 1 major part vs hundreds in procurement, assembly and finished product integrity. All told, the cost savings dwarf current practices.

 

[Ws6]

Great question; probably everyone's first. The thing to understand is the casting product consistancy. There is near zero discrepancy in each casted instance.
To repair a damaged corner, or whatever, the damaged area can be cut out and a new piece welded in. It is actually easy because of the consistancy of the parts. Tesla is all about standards and efficiency. They may even have specific places to cut for repairs.

In the video, Munro speaks to this very topic and declares it far better than traditional frame structures. He compares the 3 iterations of Tesla 3/Y frames, from hundreds of parts (which he strongly criticized) to the better 2nd iteration to the Giga Casted 1 piece part.
If you have a manufacturing background, you can understand the benefit of 1 major part vs hundreds in procurement, assembly and finished product integrity. All told, the cost savings dwarf current practices.

Sure, in a perfect world. If that casting is off just a hair, though...nothing will ever make it right. Cooling, thermal drift as it happens, a whole lot of stuff is going to play a role. Then of course the purity and effectiveness of the casting process...bubble at a critical juncture? stress risers?

You're right, theoretically it's absolutely amazing! I await the real world results. With Tesla's quality control practices, I have big doubts.

 

[Ws6]

Everyone talks about poor Tesla fit and finish. I was worried about it and really checked mine out at delivery. I can't speak for them all but my Tesla Model 3 was delivered with very good fit and finish. And after a year it's till rattle free.

I suspect talk about poor Tesla fit and finish problems is old news.

I've never seen one as good as my Japanese SUV's from Mazda and Toyota. Everyone has different standards, though.

 

[97prizm]

Great question; probably everyone's first. The thing to understand is the casting product consistancy. There is near zero discrepancy in each casted instance.
To repair a damaged corner, or whatever, the damaged area can be cut out and a new piece welded in. It is actually easy because of the consistancy of the parts. Tesla is all about standards and efficiency. They may even have specific places to cut for repairs.

In the video, Munro speaks to this very topic and declares it far better than traditional frame structures. He compares the 3 iterations of Tesla 3/Y frames, from hundreds of parts (which he strongly criticized) to the better 2nd iteration to the Giga Casted 1 piece part.
If you have a manufacturing background, you can understand the benefit of 1 major part vs hundreds in procurement, assembly and finished product integrity. All told, the cost savings dwarf current practices.

I hate to say it but Tesla really isn't that efficient. From what I understand the industry average for vehicles needing repair after manufacturing is about 7%. Tesla has double the number 14% of vehicles leaving the factory needing repair or refinishing work. This was noted many times.

Tesla Sells Brand-New Model 3 With Three Cracked Jacking Points in Germany, Gets Sued​

 

[Ws6]

I hate to say it but Tesla really isn't that efficient. From what I understand the industry average for vehicles needing repair after manufacturing is about 7%. Tesla has double the number 14% of vehicles leaving the factory needing repair or refinishing work. This was noted many times.

Tesla Sells Brand-New Model 3 With Three Cracked Jacking Points in Germany, Gets Sued​

Pretty much. They are about the most trash company I can think of for quality standards. Get ready for an absolute circus of warped and cracked "super awesome frames".

 

[JeffKeryk]

Sure, in a perfect world. If that casting is off just a hair, though...nothing will ever make it right. Cooling, thermal drift as it happens, a whole lot of stuff is going to play a role. Then of course the purity and effectiveness of the casting process...bubble at a critical juncture? stress risers?

You're right, theoretically it's absolutely amazing! I await the real world results. With Tesla's quality control practices, I have big doubts.

The video discusses your points. Not sure if you got a chance to see the whole thing.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I hate to say it but Tesla really isn't that efficient. From what I understand the industry average for vehicles needing repair after manufacturing is about 7%. Tesla has double the number 14% of vehicles leaving the factory needing repair or refinishing work. This was noted many times.

Tesla Sells Brand-New Model 3 With Three Cracked Jacking Points in Germany, Gets Sued​

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...oints-in-germany-gets-sued-190658.html#agal_1

 

[JeffKeryk]

I hate to say it but Tesla really isn't that efficient. From what I understand the industry average for vehicles needing repair after manufacturing is about 7%. Tesla has double the number 14% of vehicles leaving the factory needing repair or refinishing work. This was noted many times.

Tesla Sells Brand-New Model 3 With Three Cracked Jacking Points in Germany, Gets Sued​

By efficiency, I am talking about cost to manufacture. Tesla's margins are close to 30%; that's Porsche territory. The industry generally achieves 7%. Ford and VW CEOs has spoken to Tesla's mfg efficiency many times.

By the way, your article is a perfect reason to move away from hundreds (thousands?) of welds on hundreds of parts. Munro spoke of welds as an assembly point of failure that the Giga Casting eliminates.

 

[edyvw]

I've never seen one as good as my Japanese SUV's from Mazda and Toyota. Everyone has different standards, though.

And that is not high bar.
New Tundra and Sequoia have gaps like Golf GTI from 1982.
And yet, they are definitely better assembled than Tesla.

 

[edyvw]

By efficiency, I am talking about cost to manufacture. Tesla's margins are close to 30%; that's Porsche territory. The industry generally achieves 7%. Ford and VW CEOs has spoken to Tesla's mfg efficiency many times.

VW is chasing Tesla's efficiency, and that is why they are in absolute chaos right now.

 

[JeffKeryk]

VW is chasing Tesla's efficiency, and that is why they are in absolute chaos right now.

Can you speak to VW's margins and profitability over the past 10 years? Didn't profits double last year?
Regarding efficiency, VW is a low margin high volume manufacturer. VW states they need to improve mfg efficiency to compete and grow into the next generation of vehicles.
Porsche is the king of high margin low volume auto manufacturing.
Tesla has shown a company can be high margin high volume. That is a key reason the market has rewarded them.

By the way, VW will figure it out. They are at an inflection point, as is the entire industry. And I bet some smart company scoops up ex CEO Diess.

 

[OVERKILL]

The munro team is excellent, and really show how dedicated and passionate they are about their craft. However alot of their solutions or critiques they come with are pushing for ways to improve costs sustain by mfgs by reducing the ease of repair on these vehicles moving forward.

Tesla is leading the pack if thats all that matters. The basics of the vehicle still seem to fall flat such as fit and finish. On the opposite end we have OEMs who cant seem to make the powertrain anything in the realm of Tesla but can make everything else well.

The brand that can do both will rule them all, and I do think it may not come from the status quo (tesla included).

The i4 M50 seems to do both quite well, and it's an excellent first serious offering into this space by BMW. I was extremely impressed with the car, having Tesla performance, but BMW ergonomics, materials selection and fit and finish.