Tesla Model 3 vs BMW M3 video

[edyvw]

People don't want the Pirelli or Yokohamas but there is no evidence they are noticeably worse other than pro-Michelin forum bias. I bet if you put a Michelin on that Tesla it does the same thing. How your tire works also depends on how your car is set up.

The question is also which Pirelli. There are several P Zero models.
But this is a car issue. The dynamics of M3P are different than that of M3.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The M3P Pirellis are Tesla-specific P ZERO 4 performance tires. They are optimized for the high torque of the 4 wheel drive as well as low rolling resistance. Certainly good rubber at well over $400 a piece.

 

[Torrid]

The question is also which Pirelli. There are several P Zero models.
But this is a car issue. The dynamics of M3P are different than that of M3.

It's likely an EV leaning tire for range as it should be as most EV owners aren't pushing a car like this.

The average M3 buyer though really isn't doing it either. Let's face it no matter what scenario any of us are coming up with for our vehicles, no one is doing beyond daily commuting with the occasional backroad blast.

 

[KevinMalone]

The M3P comes with Pzero PZ4 and they should be competitive with the PS4S:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/videoDisplay.jsp?ttid=327

 

[edyvw]

It's likely an EV leaning tire for range as it should be as most EV owners aren't pushing a car like this.

The average M3 buyer though really isn't doing it either. Let's face it no matter what scenario any of us are coming up with for our vehicles, no one is doing beyond daily commuting with the occasional backroad blast.

Although as stated that it is PZ4, compound can be specifically ordered by car manufacturer, so you are right, it is probably a compromise between maximum performance and range.
No, it is not a track vehicle. While it can do one lap well, the mechanics behind it, range, etc., makes it unfriendly on track.

 

[JeffKeryk]

"Probably the best car in the world."
Tesla has a better ride.
"The BMW is a little numb. The Tesla steering is better weighted and it's got a quicker rack."

"What did Tesla get wrong? Nothing."

 

[RAVL]

I am not bashing the Tesla - the performance looks impressive - but I would not track an electric car until they figure out how to extinguish fires. It is a risk with gasoline too obviously but the electric car fires seem very difficult to extinguish, and sometimes you cannot exit a vehicle as quickly as you would like.

Personally not a big Pirelli fan but my n=3 experience is obviously not conclusive.

But again the Tesla is an impressive machine and in reality will be used the same way as the BMW - daily fun driver with the occasional blast off.

 

[Torrid]

I am not bashing the Tesla - the performance looks impressive - but I would not track an electric car until they figure out how to extinguish fires. It is a risk with gasoline too obviously but the electric car fires seem very difficult to extinguish, and sometimes you cannot exit a vehicle as quickly as you would like.

Personally not a big Pirelli fan but my n=3 experience is obviously not conclusive.

But again the Tesla is an impressive machine and in reality will be used the same way as the BMW - daily fun driver with the occasional blast off.

I'm not sure why you think tracking an EV in general is a fire risk.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The M3 Competition was the better track car, as the distance increased. But that's primarily due to ICE vs EV range, not the suspension capabilities.
The M3P is a better all around car for far less money.
Then there are the M3 Comp maintenance costs, fuel costs, etc.

 

[edyvw]

The M3 Competition was the better track car, as the distance increased. But that's primarily due to ICE vs EV range, not the suspension capabilities.
The M3P is a better all around car for far less money.
Then there are the M3 Comp maintenance costs, fuel costs, etc.

It was not primary to ICE.
PZ4 is getting overheated due to suspension in Tesla. Tires and brakes are the two most critical components on the track.
Also, the handling comparison between cars still shows that most of the time, Tesla makes up in exit, not through the curve.
When it comes to the rack, it is quicker in Tesla as AWD in BMW has a slower rack. Those are two different concepts how power is transferred to the ground. BMW has a transfer case, etc., which Tesla does not, and the steering rack is always slower in AWD of that type. RWD, which is what M3 should be, has a far quicker steering rack. But I get that if you are comparing two vehicles, you want them to be as close in performance as possible.
Now as to whether it is a better overall car, I think it is in the eye of the beholder. He is impressed by Tesla's iPad. Fine. My 8-year-old also appreciates his iPad more than, let's say, my car. He is also wrong about the split screen in BMW as it does project full screen navigation if you want etc. Now, IMO, BMW screen is also absolute nonsense same as Tesla's iPad, although in BMW you have more classic view.
In the end, while he was impressed with the interface, he also said that turn signals are absolutely infuriating, so I am not sure how that squares out with his initial statement about ease of operation, as in the end, the most infuriating thing in Tesla, is actually one that is the most basic.
As for price, yeah it is cheap. But then again, once I had a conversation with my friend about new Mustang (this was some 25yrs ago) and I pointed to low price, and he said: yes, that is the most worrisome part.

 

[Torrid]

It was not primary to ICE.
PZ4 is getting overheated due to suspension in Tesla. Tires and brakes are the two most critical components on the track.
Also, the handling comparison between cars still shows that most of the time, Tesla makes up in exit, not through the curve.
When it comes to the rack, it is quicker in Tesla as AWD in BMW has a slower rack. Those are two different concepts how power is transferred to the ground. BMW has a transfer case, etc., which Tesla does not, and the steering rack is always slower in AWD of that type. RWD, which is what M3 should be, has a far quicker steering rack. But I get that if you are comparing two vehicles, you want them to be as close in performance as possible.
Now as to whether it is a better overall car, I think it is in the eye of the beholder. He is impressed by Tesla's iPad. Fine. My 8-year-old also appreciates his iPad more than, let's say, my car. He is also wrong about the split screen in BMW as it does project full screen navigation if you want etc. Now, IMO, BMW screen is also absolute nonsense same as Tesla's iPad, although in BMW you have more classic view.
In the end, while he was impressed with the interface, he also said that turn signals are absolutely infuriating, so I am not sure how that squares out with his initial statement about ease of operation, as in the end, the most infuriating thing in Tesla, is actually one that is the most basic.
As for price, yeah it is cheap. But then again, once I had a conversation with my friend about new Mustang (this was some 25yrs ago) and I pointed to low price, and he said: yes, that is the most worrisome part.

One thing is for sure, the M3 isn't twice the car for nearly twice the price.

I'm not sure how street tuned suspension is what is killing the tires. I don't think the Tesla has the best possible tire for performance though. The cars weigh near as makes no difference the same.

I love when people call the Tesla screen nonsense. A screen might not be the best solution, but it's the best screen in the industry from just not adding superfluous BS for the sake of looking cool with crazy animations and multitudes of confusing menus.

 

[Ws6]

My logic is, I will never push the car past the limits of the AS4. A little more mileage (tires ain't cheap) and lower rolling resistance should offer a little more range. More range never hurts... Of course there is nothing wrong with the Pirellis either.

Not today's problem...

CC2s are 85-90% the tire the AS4s are, with triple the life span in my experience.

 

[Ws6]

One thing is for sure, the M3 isn't twice the car for nearly twice the price.

I'm not sure how street tuned suspension is what is killing the tires. I don't think the Tesla has the best possible tire for performance though. The cars weigh near as makes no difference the same.

I love when people call the Tesla screen nonsense. A screen might not be the best solution, but it's the best screen in the industry from just not adding superfluous BS for the sake of looking cool with crazy animations and multitudes of confusing menus.

My issue is the screen isn't in front of you. It needs a hud and gauges.

 

[Torrid]

My issue is the screen isn't in front of you. It needs a hud and gauges.

It really doesn't. It's less of a glance to the corner of the screen than it would be down at gauges. I would have said the same thing until I drove one.

 

[edyvw]

One thing is for sure, the M3 isn't twice the car for nearly twice the price.

I'm not sure how street tuned suspension is what is killing the tires. I don't think the Tesla has the best possible tire for performance though. The cars weigh near as makes no difference the same.

I love when people call the Tesla screen nonsense. A screen might not be the best solution, but it's the best screen in the industry from just not adding superfluous BS for the sake of looking cool with crazy animations and multitudes of confusing menus.

More track tuned suspension, better for tires.
Think of this, a lot of negative camber, will absolutely obliterate your tires in daily driving. Same camber on track will prolong life of your tires compared to street camber.
Take into consideration that BMW did 15min at pretty much same pace. Anyone who did any time on track knows that doing that is pretty much Supercar performance.
We don’t know whether Tesla can do that as it can’t do 15min at peak performance due to charge.
As for screen, that is THE only game Tedla has. The screen interface might be best, but it is kind of: which crap tastes best?

 

[Torrid]

More track tuned suspension, better for tires.
Think of this, a lot of negative camber, will absolutely obliterate your tires in daily driving. Same camber on track will prolong life of your tires compared to street camber.
Take into consideration that BMW did 15min at pretty much same pace. Anyone who did any time on track knows that doing that is pretty much Supercar performance.
We don’t know whether Tesla can do that as it can’t do 15min at peak performance due to charge.
As for screen, that is THE only game Tedla has. The screen interface might be best, but it is kind of: which crap tastes best?

Daily one and tell me. That's how it's used 98% of the time and I didn't pay $80k for the styling the M3 now has. Seriously what the heck is BMW doing? They used to have some of the best cars looking cars on the market. I get having better track tuned suspension, but this whole fastest lap time stuff for cars that never see the track is kind of funny. Less M3s will see the track by percentage than trucks will tow trailers. It's like intentionally making the car worse for bragging rights. Look at Porsche with the new GT3 and GT3 Touring. They actually dialed the suspension back to a level where it still handles but became more compliant for the street. I'm too old for that fastest lap junk to a level where it makes a worse car to live with and don't have the time to spend on the track anyway. When the Tesla is 90% there for nearly half the money and makes for a better daily, the rest of it no longer makes any sense. As a weekend toy I get it, but neither of these cars are weekend toys.

I love it when people call Tesla crap. It's better than it deserves to be at its price point and the market seems to be eating it up.

 

[Ws6]

It really doesn't. It's less of a glance to the corner of the screen than it would be down at gauges. I would have said the same thing until I drove one.

I hate gauges, even. All my cars have a HUD.

 

[Ws6]

Daily one and tell me. That's how it's used 98% of the time and I didn't pay $80k for the styling the M3 now has. Seriously what the heck is BMW doing? They used to have some of the best cars looking cars on the market. I get having better track tuned suspension, but this whole fastest lap time stuff for cars that never see the track is kind of funny. Less M3s will see the track by percentage than trucks will tow trailers. It's like intentionally making the car worse for bragging rights. Look at Porsche with the new GT3 and GT3 Touring. They actually dialed the suspension back to a level where it still handles but became more compliant for the street. I'm too old for that fastest lap junk to a level where it makes a worse car to live with and don't have the time to spend on the track anyway. When the Tesla is 90% there for nearly half the money and makes for a better daily, the rest of it no longer makes any sense. As a weekend toy I get it, but neither of these cars are weekend toys.

I love it when people call Tesla crap. It's better than it deserves to be at its price point and the market seems to be eating it up.

Tesla still bothers me from an engineering standpoint.

1) battery venting strategy allows water ingress. This is why teslas burn in floods. And other EVs do not.

2) unprotected coolant and other lines. At least shields can be bought for this.

3) frameless windows. I am still traumatized by my 4th gen Fbodies and lack of wind and water sealing here.

 

[Torrid]

Tesla still bothers me from an engineering standpoint.

1) battery venting strategy allows water ingress. This is why teslas burn in floods. And other EVs do not.

2) unprotected coolant and other lines. At least shields can be bought for this.

3) frameless windows. I am still traumatized by my 4th gen Fbodies and lack of wind and water sealing here.

Ok.

1) I guess you missed the story of the of the brand new EVs on a Kia lot in Florida that burned during the hurricane with the window stickers still in them. It's only Teslas though... Kias don't have vents, right? Batteries don't need to be vented...

2) As far as I understood on this issue some Model 3s and Model Ss have suffered from this from road impacts. I lost a transmission cooler line this way on a Jaguar.

3) F Bodies are probably the worst examples of this. My 3rd gen was a hint questionable too. Our 1996 240SX wasn't great either. I think that was due to the fact that the window didn't retract and then reseal tighter by rolling up into the seal on any of these cars. It wasn't an option on my 1991 Camaro, it had hand crank windows.

 

[RAVL]

I'm not sure why you think tracking an EV in general is a fire risk.

Fire is always a risk on track. This is why you are required to have a fire suppression system for racing and not HPDE. EV fires are intense and very difficult to extinguish. I base this on my FIL, who is the fire chief in his town. It’s also fairly common knowledge so I am not sure where your question arises. For street use as most will be used I have said that the Tesla seems like a very nice machine. I drove a P80 once, briefly, and the sense was very strong acceleration but significant weight, much like a lot of the newer sport cars, which are more GT than sport car. Elon is a genius who made electric cars commercially viable. Have a good weekend.