Tesla Model 3 To Feature New Tech

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Well, I like Tesla for many reasons. One of them is Tesla is a new American company that set BEV standards for all other automakers to follow(no one had any plan to surpass Model S performance yet, Porsche included). Also, as of now they manufacture all their vehicles in USA and export to many oversea countries.


Imagine all of those stupid carmakers that sell millions of cars a year not chasing after a car that almost nobody buys.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: BRZED
Originally Posted By: donnyj08
If the article is correct and they do end up costing only 30-35K I will buy one.


The price sounds too good to be true, not only because it's an EV, but also because of the suggested performance.

The 250 mile range would be problematic for me. Unless they find a way to coveniently swap the battery or a way of really rapidly (in less than 15 minutes) charging the battery anywhere across the country, I don't see the vehicle make much sense outside of metro areas. And there you don't need impressive 0-60 times.

Today, I saw a Model S with California plates. Travel is clearly possible.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: Noobie
30k-35k . . . if they are really putting so much resources into it, i doubt it will be even close to that price. Probably twice at least for it to be financially viable.


Same way the Concorde was built at all: Extreme government subsidies.

It's not difficult to make cheap products when you don't have to worry about where the money will come from.

Every car in your signature was built using government subsidies. Why single out Tesla?

 

[Cujet]

Unlike most other manufacturers, Tesla has massive experience building electric cars.

I get to drive various Model S (s) at the airport. I absolutely love them. Having taken a long drive once, down to Miami and back (from Jupiter/WPB) (about 200 miles round trip, and roughly 4 hours) I do believe they have enough range to be very practical cars.

My car, a Honda S2000, goes about 220 miles per tank. I fill up twice a week. I'd love an electric version!!!

 

[Nate1979]

^^^^^ I think massive is a little exaggerated. Tesla total sales so far in its history is about the one year sales for one model of any of the big manufacturers.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
^^^^^ I think massive is a little exaggerated. Tesla total sales so far in its history is about the one year sales for one model of any of the big manufacturers.


Really? Ninety Thousand Tesla Model S cars is not Massive?

Lets add it up. The mass of all the Tesla Model S cars produced so far comes up to about 430,000,000 pounds. That's massive.

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
^^^^^ I think massive is a little exaggerated. Tesla total sales so far in its history is about the one year sales for one model of any of the big manufacturers.


Really? Ninety Thousand Tesla Model S cars is not Massive?

Lets add it up. The mass of all the Tesla Model S cars produced so far comes up to about 430,000,000 pounds. That's massive.



No, I think that is peanuts in the auto industry. That is less than GM sells for one of it's models in one year, such as their brand new Colorado small pickup truck. So, all of the Tesla sales combined matches one year of one model for GM. Again, peanuts. It's about the same as all the sales of GM's Chevy Volt's so far.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Tesla has more experiences in EV than all other car companies. They have only 3 models so far but they have several differences engines, performances and battery sizes in just Model S alone.

Nissan may sell more Leaf than all Tesla combined, but that is only 1 model without any difference equipment.

Similar comparison: Ferrari has more experiences in Exotic cars than anyone, but talking volume then Toyota sells more Corolla worldwide in 1 year than Ferrari total the last 20 years. Does this mean Toyota has more experience in Exotic cars ?

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
^^^^^ I think massive is a little exaggerated. Tesla total sales so far in its history is about the one year sales for one model of any of the big manufacturers.


Really? Ninety Thousand Tesla Model S cars is not Massive?

Lets add it up. The mass of all the Tesla Model S cars produced so far comes up to about 430,000,000 pounds. That's massive.



No, I think that is peanuts in the auto industry. That is less than GM sells for one of it's models in one year, such as their brand new Colorado small pickup truck. So, all of the Tesla sales combined matches one year of one model for GM. Again, peanuts. It's about the same as all the sales of GM's Chevy Volt's so far.


Baloney hahahahha! Placed end to end, the Model S would be nearly 250 miles long.

And the Ferrari reference above really does have meaning. Just because GM makes many cars does not mean they have any business making electric cars.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
^^^^^ I think massive is a little exaggerated. Tesla total sales so far in its history is about the one year sales for one model of any of the big manufacturers.


Really? Ninety Thousand Tesla Model S cars is not Massive?

Lets add it up. The mass of all the Tesla Model S cars produced so far comes up to about 430,000,000 pounds. That's massive.



No, I think that is peanuts in the auto industry. That is less than GM sells for one of it's models in one year, such as their brand new Colorado small pickup truck. So, all of the Tesla sales combined matches one year of one model for GM. Again, peanuts. It's about the same as all the sales of GM's Chevy Volt's so far.


Baloney hahahahha! Placed end to end, the Model S would be nearly 250 miles long.

And the Ferrari reference above really does have meaning. Just because GM makes many cars does not mean they have any business making electric cars.


You ever see the documentary "Who killed the electric car?" ? GM actually has a pretty extensive history of making EV's and did so long before Tesla came on the scene.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
^^^^^ I think massive is a little exaggerated. Tesla total sales so far in its history is about the one year sales for one model of any of the big manufacturers.


Or a month or two of sales for your typical domestic pick-up

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Tesla has more experiences in EV than all other car companies. They have only 3 models so far but they have several differences engines, performances and battery sizes in just Model S alone.


GM's first foray into the EV market was the EV1 back in 1996, a car which they produced for three years. While the production numbers were not high (just over 1,000 made) it was an experience for GM which later tied into their development of their hybrid vehicles, of which there are many models.

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Nissan may sell more Leaf than all Tesla combined, but that is only 1 model without any difference equipment.


That's because the Leaf is a single product for a manufacture who makes primarily petrol burning products, EV's aren't their only, or even primary, source of revenue. On the other hand, EV's are all Tesla does, so you would expect greater diversification from them.

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Similar comparison: Ferrari has more experiences in Exotic cars than anyone, but talking volume then Toyota sells more Corolla worldwide in 1 year than Ferrari total the last 20 years. Does this mean Toyota has more experience in Exotic cars ?


That's not a similar comparison at all, because the Corolla isn't an exotic. If Ferrari were to produce a price-similar sedan, then you could compare THAT product to the Corolla.

Now Toyota DOES make an exotic/Super Car in the form of the Lexus LFA, however their experience in this market in terms of timeline is obviously much shorter than that of Ferrari.

Toyota has more experience building cars than Ferrari. Ferrari has more experience building Super Cars than Toyota. However Toyota makes, arguably, an excellent Super Car in terms of the LFA. This is likely due to their extensive experience building cars as well as their extensive engineering expertise.

Another example would be the NSX. Honda had no history of building a Super Car, but they had a great history of race involvement and building cars and engines. Do you consider the NSX an inferior product because of Honda's lack of Super Car experience or do you consider it a relative bargain for an excellent product due to Honda's extensive experience building cars and engines as well as their engineering expertise?

 

[Nate1979]

Tesla sold something like 11,000 total cars in their last QUARTER. Less than 4k cars sold per month does not build experience compared to the major manufacturers for any of their models. The Prius has been out for something like 15 years now. While not a full electric it has many of the same components (actually maybe more complex). So, in some sense Toyota has by far more experience than Tesla to build EV-based cars.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Unlike most other manufacturers, Tesla has massive experience building electric cars.

I get to drive various Model S (s) at the airport. I absolutely love them. Having taken a long drive once, down to Miami and back (from Jupiter/WPB) (about 200 miles round trip, and roughly 4 hours) I do believe they have enough range to be very practical cars.

My car, a Honda S2000, goes about 220 miles per tank. I fill up twice a week. I'd love an electric version!!!

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
^^^^^ I think massive is a little exaggerated. Tesla total sales so far in its history is about the one year sales for one model of any of the big manufacturers.

This is what I am talking about.

GM had EV1 more than 15 years ago for few years as an experience car for lease only, they then abandoned it and called back all EV1.

As of today, Tesla has more experiences in EV than any automaker and they do set standards for others to follow. Whoever try to produce an EV that can do 200-300 miles or more between charges or higher performance(less than 4-5 sec to 60MPH) it will be compared with Tesla's vehicles.

As of now no EV other than Tesla can do more than 200 miles between charges or can do better than 5 sec to 60 MPH.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
^^^^^ I think massive is a little exaggerated. Tesla total sales so far in its history is about the one year sales for one model of any of the big manufacturers.


No he isn't exaggerating, if you compare like cars. You can't compare the Model S sales to say a Chevy Cruze, apples and oranges.

If you compare Model S sales to other large $100k luxury cars it stacks up very favorable.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2015/07/usa-large-luxury-car-sales-figures-june-2015-ytd.html

The S class is the gold standard in this segment and in June of this year Mercedes sold 1593 of them, and Tesla sold around 2800 model S's.

That's one of the reasons their stock price is so high, they outsell everyone in their segment. Contrary to the [censored] posted here people who buy $100k cars are more picky and hard to please than people who spend less. So the fact that they can outsell companies that have dominated that segment for most of the 20th century says something, they make a compelling and competitive product.

Now if they can do that with their 3 which competes squarely with BMW's best selling 3 series watch out. Wall Street is betting they can, hence the stock price.


No manufacture makes money selling $100k sedans, they are brand halo cars. The $30k-$40k entry level luxury segment is where the money is made, Tesla is trying to hit one out of the park.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: Noobie
30k-35k . . . if they are really putting so much resources into it, i doubt it will be even close to that price. Probably twice at least for it to be financially viable.


Same way the Concorde was built at all: Extreme government subsidies.

It's not difficult to make cheap products when you don't have to worry about where the money will come from.

Every car in your signature was built using government subsidies. Why single out Tesla?


Which one of those companies is subsidized to the point that it could never stand on its own feet, like Tesla?

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

This is what I am talking about.

GM had EV1 more than 15 years ago for few years as an experience car for lease only, they then abandoned it and called back all EV1.

As of today, Tesla has more experiences in EV than any automaker and they do set standards for others to follow. Whoever try to produce an EV that can do 200-300 miles or more between charges or higher performance(less than 4-5 sec to 60MPH) it will be compared with Tesla's vehicles.

As of now no EV other than Tesla can do more than 200 miles between charges or can do better than 5 sec to 60 MPH.


And why exactly is any of this important at all?

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: Noobie
30k-35k . . . if they are really putting so much resources into it, i doubt it will be even close to that price. Probably twice at least for it to be financially viable.


Same way the Concorde was built at all: Extreme government subsidies.

It's not difficult to make cheap products when you don't have to worry about where the money will come from.

Every car in your signature was built using government subsidies. Why single out Tesla?


Which one of those companies is subsidized to the point that it could never stand on its own feet, like Tesla?


Tesla is not subsidized any more or less than any other car company.

If your referring to the tax incentives those are offered on all electric vehicles regardless of manufacture. They are also offered on other things like pickup trucks, farm equipment, mortgage interest etc.



If you were to make an argument that we should eliminate all tax incentives for a simple flat tax I'd be all for that, as would quite a number of people. But its very unfair to single electric cars out for the tax incentives offered on them.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy

No he isn't exaggerating, if you compare like cars. You can't compare the Model S sales to say a Chevy Cruze, apples and oranges.

If you compare Model S sales to other large $100k luxury cars it stacks up very favorable.

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2015/07/usa-large-luxury-car-sales-figures-june-2015-ytd.html

The S class is the gold standard in this segment and in June of this year Mercedes sold 1593 of them, and Tesla sold around 2800 model S's.

That's one of the reasons their stock price is so high, they outsell everyone in their segment. Contrary to the [censored] posted here people who buy $100k cars are more picky and hard to please than people who spend less. So the fact that they can outsell companies that have dominated that segment for most of the 20th century says something, they make a compelling and competitive product.

Now if they can do that with their 3 which competes squarely with BMW's best selling 3 series watch out. Wall Street is betting they can, hence the stock price.


No manufacture makes money selling $100k sedans, they are brand halo cars. The $30k-$40k entry level luxury segment is where the money is made, Tesla is trying to hit one out of the park.


Well, if Wall Street is backing it up, it must be good. I mean, they never make any mistakes like that.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy


Tesla is not subsidized any more or less than any other car company.


Are you attempting to tell me that there is another car company out there that received $2.4 billion in government subsidies, and has yet to make a single penny selling a car to this day?

Quote:
If your referring to the tax incentives those are offered on all electric vehicles regardless of manufacture. They are also offered on other things like pickup trucks, farm equipment, mortgage interest etc.


I'm referring to the corporate welfare that Tesla Motors has been living off of for years.