Tesla just laid off entire new vehicle team and supercharging team

[JeffKeryk]

Has anyone seen Sandy Munro’s video on this topic on the Munro Live YouTube channel?

Dude’s losing it.

Actually, he repeated some of the points I made.
Of course, both of us may be losing it, so there's that... Ha!

The reactionary posts here are somewhat comical to me. People expect Tesla's meteoric rise to continue or they must be toast.
Tesla so-called disasters sell... Clickbait for the win!
Including the latest stock slide, they are still worth more, from a market cap standpoint, then the next 5+ car companies combined.
Look at their balance sheet and fundamentals. Debt to cash and other assets.

 

[DwightFrye]

The wild card is and has continued to be gas prices and availability. Gas prices here in La La Land continue to be high, like around $4.50 a gallon for 87 octane if you shop around a bit or as much as $6.10 for 91 octane in the mountains where I live. And you can't swing a cat without seeing a Tesla. I'm probably seeing a lot of other EV's but they just aren't as easily recognizable except for a few like Rivians.

Anyone here who is past about the age of 30 knows just how suddenly things can change vis-a-vis our nation's dinosaur juice supply. There are plenty of bad actors out there who would just love to seriously disrupt our way of life and in a lot of horrific ways. The EV haters and naysayers are temporarily lulled into thinking everything is lollipops and roses. And god forbid we wake up tomorrow with some kind of event that changes everything.

I have been accused of fear mongering, maybe so but in the event that things go to Hades in a handbasket then those EV's will once again look pretty inviting. Tesla will be the one company able to respond rapidly. Ford and GM ? Hahahahaha good luck with that.

 

[dogememe]

The wild card is and has continued to be gas prices and availability. Gas prices here in La La Land continue to be high, like around $4.50 a gallon for 87 octane if you shop around a bit or as much as $6.10 for 91 octane in the mountains where I live. And you can't swing a cat without seeing a Tesla. I'm probably seeing a lot of other EV's but they just aren't as easily recognizable except for a few like Rivians.

Anyone here who is past about the age of 30 knows just how suddenly things can change vis-a-vis our nation's dinosaur juice supply. There are plenty of bad actors out there who would just love to seriously disrupt our way of life and in a lot of horrific ways. The EV haters and naysayers are temporarily lulled into thinking everything is lollipops and roses. And god forbid we wake up tomorrow with some kind of event that changes everything.

I have been accused of fear mongering, maybe so but in the event that things go to Hades in a handbasket then those EV's will once again look pretty inviting. Tesla will be the one company able to respond rapidly. Ford and GM ? Hahahahaha good luck with that.

I definitely agree that energy independence for our country is one factor in why I like EVs.

Combine nuclear power plants with solar on peoples rooftops we will significantly reduce the amount of oil we have to get from people who hate us.

Tesla does move fast. Ford and GM are sloooow to do anything. But all three are capable of making good vehicles.

 

[dishdude]

lol

 

[alarmguy]

I will wait for the day to hear Tesla is selling so many vehicles it has to hire people instead of fire people and the value of the company is no longer sliced in half on a good day.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I will wait for the day to hear Tesla is selling so many vehicles it has to hire people instead of fire people and the value of the company is no longer sliced in half on a good day.

Thousands of workers lost their jobs, their homes and more after GM/Toyota shuttered NUMMI.
Tesla has been the #1 employer in Fremont for like 10 years, and is one of the largest employers in Silicon Valley as a whole. Always hiring. That's a key reason I bought the car; I salute and support local workers.

 

[alarmguy]

Tesla sales in China take another hit.
China sales down 18% in year over year in same time compared to the same time April 2023 according to preliminary data released by the China Passenger Car Association
Also note this is 30% lower than March numbers. Meanwhile BYD Battery Electric Vehicle sales grew 49% year over year

BYD now sells 100% more EVs in China than Tesla. I could only expect things to only get better from Tesla here on in or they have even larger than monumental problems. As it is the Tesla CEO has been blindsided but the success of its competition that he used to make fun and laugh about.

The desperation is showing, the once touted by some as Tesla more profitable per car then others can only dream of has been in a never ending period of slashing prices further, so much so, they cant afford to keep their workers and need to slash them too. Kind of sad, I do think another CEO could have continued the success that Musk started if he would have stepped aside a couple years back.
Time will tell if he gets it together. Its fun to watch.

Source - https://qz.com/tesla-ev-sales-china-decline-elon-musk-april-rival-byd-1851461383

 

[alarmguy]

I definitely agree that energy independence for our country is one factor in why I like EVs.

Combine nuclear power plants with solar on peoples rooftops we will significantly reduce the amount of oil we have to get from people who hate us.

Tesla does move fast. Ford and GM are sloooow to do anything. But all three are capable of making good vehicles.

One problem, in the entire country I think only two plants are under construction. Gasoline is never going away. Battery EV as a majority not happening during the lifetime of anyone in here. *LOL* even Ukraine was ahead of us!

Oh... wait... I guess we dont even have two ...

 

[dishdude]

One problem, in the entire country I think only two plants are under construction. Gasoline is never going away. Battery EV as a majority not happening during the lifetime of anyone in here. *LOL* even Ukraine was ahead of us!

Oh... wait... I guess we dont even have two ...

Nuclear suffers from the NIMBY phenomena due to accidents that occurred in the 70's and 80's using 50's technology. Affordable housing is another NIMBY problem.

 

[dogememe]

Yeah we need nuclear. It's not perfect but I don't think anything else will provide what we need for the future. EVs, more datacenters, electrification of gas appliances... we need reliable power!

 

[JeffKeryk]

Oh... wait... I guess we dont even have two ...

California has two operating nuclear power reactors at one plant, three nuclear facilities at various stages of decommissioning, and multiple research reactors that are operational or undergoing decommissioning.

Across the United States, 93 nuclear reactors power tens of millions of homes and anchor local communities. Navigate national and state statistics for nuclear energy with the tabs along the top, and select your state to see how nuclear energy benefits your community.

One new reactor is nearing completion in the United StatesOne new reactor—Unit 4, with a planned net summer electricity generation capacity of about 1,117 MW—is nearing completion at the Vogtle nuclear plant in Georgia and is projected to enter service by early 2024.

 

[Torrid]

Tesla isnt going to fail, it's just settling into the EV market. The fantasy of something new and media darling now facing reality. No one can predict the future but we can see the American public at large is not ready for high priced, inconvenient compact cars in huge numbers. This would have happened much faster if the taxpayer wasnt supporting the industry.
The Chinese can buy cheap tiny EVs not much more than what the US taxpayer pays $7,500 to everyone to buy an EV here in the USA>

Interesting times, an experiment with your money into promoting an idea and agenda full of holes with no calculation on the cost it extracts. If the industry was left on its own for people to buy the product that they want Tesla might have had a stronger foundation, also the legacy makers would have spent less R&D on development and let the true market decide how many and how much market penetration EV would make.

The flood of excess capacity has come years faster than I thought and I thought I was always the doom and gloom guy. EV will be here for ever but not accepted as the promoters thought.

Compacts are near dead, but jam SUVs and trucks with batteries that tip the scales at 7k lbs and we’re there baby! The compact EVs are affordable compared to the average vehicle cost. That’s not what people want though. Very few are compacts. I can only think of 3 compact EVs right now and the Model 3 barely qualifies as it’s the size of a midsize from 5 years ago. They’d rather buy $50k+ larger vehicles and that seems to be the goal of all car markets now.

New vehicles are a rich person’s game now. The affordable car no longer sells because it’s becoming expensive, so the bottom line buyer buys used now and the rich buyer doesn’t consider it. It’s got to collapse eventually.

 

[alarmguy]

Compacts are near dead, but jam SUVs and trucks with batteries that tip the scales at 7k lbs and we’re there baby! The compact EVs are affordable compared to the average vehicle cost. That’s not what people want though. Very few are compacts. I can only think of 3 compact EVs right now and the Model 3 barely qualifies as it’s the size of a midsize from 5 years ago. They’d rather buy $50k+ larger vehicles and that seems to be the goal of all car markets now.

New vehicles are a rich person’s game now. The affordable car no longer sells because it’s becoming expensive, so the bottom line buyer buys used now and the rich buyer doesn’t consider it. It’s got to collapse eventually.

No, compact EVs are not as affordable as the average same size vehicle.

One can buy a pretty loaded 2024 Chevy Trax for 25k
One can buy a nice 3 row SUV for less than 45K and tow a 5000 lb boat an EV of that size would cost significantly more money.

and for the cost of a luxury EV SUV one can buy anyone of GMs interstate cruising monsters for significantly less, heck some of that size are not even offered in an EV.

Dont take my posts as anti EV which they are not but lets be fair in comparison regarding size.

This is the one that might be one of many that will continue to hammer Tesla, even if Tesla comes out with a new model.
Best part is, you can get this car under a lease agreement with $7,500 paid for by the taxpayers even though its built in China, they will structure it as a lease and put in the buy back price, more or less working around US requirements. Really smart how they pulled this off.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1140369_2025-volvo-ex30-ev-china-up-close

There will be no stopping Chinese EVs around the world, much like no stopping Japan back in the 1970s
Meanwhile GM will still sell their share and be insulated from a lot of this here in the USA by making what the majority wants, the ICE.
Though who knows, politicians love to beat down our own industries.

 

[jeepman3071]

If tesla fails, there goes the ev market entirely. Just a ten year fad lol. Drill baby drill!

This.

California is also the only place IMO where an EV makes sense simply because fuel prices are so high, and EV charging infrastructure is more widely adopted across the state, not to mention EVs are perfect for sitting in CA traffic for multiple hours a day, and don't experience the cold temperature related down-falls of other climates. In other areas, the adoption really depends on use-case of the consumer, and EVs are not yet able to completely replace ICE across all use-cases. New tech is widely adopted when it is an improvement over old tech in every single way, not because it is forced and the shortcomings are expected to be accepted by the masses.

 

[Torrid]

No, compact EVs are not as affordable as the average same size vehicle.

One can buy a pretty loaded 2024 Chevy Trax for 25k
One can buy a nice 3 row SUV for less than 45K and tow a 5000 lb boat an EV of that size would cost significantly more money.

and for the cost of a luxury EV SUV one can buy anyone of GMs interstate cruising monsters for significantly less, heck some of that size are not even offered in an EV.

Dont take my posts as anti EV which they are not but lets be fair in comparison regarding size.

This is the one that might be one of many that will continue to hammer Tesla, even if Tesla comes out with a new model.
Best part is, you can get this car under a lease agreement with $7,500 paid for by the taxpayers even though its built in China, they will structure it as a lease and put in the buy back price, more or less working around US requirements. Really smart how they pulled this off.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1140369_2025-volvo-ex30-ev-china-up-close

There will be no stopping Chinese EVs around the world, much like no stopping Japan back in the 1970s
Meanwhile GM will still sell their share and be insulated from a lot of this here in the USA by making what the majority wants, the ICE.
Though who knows, politicians love to beat down our own industries.

A Trax is an economy vehicle and a Tesla is not. A Bolt is though. That was my point, there aren’t many compact EVs, let alone economy EVs. They’re all upmarket except for a couple of cars.

 

[alarmguy]

A Trax is an economy vehicle and a Tesla is not. A Bolt is though. That was my point, there aren’t many compact EVs, let alone economy EVs. They’re all upmarket except for a couple of cars.

Maybe we are talking about the same thing then.
Im talking size. In order to get an economy priced EV you have to settle for something like a BOLT which maybe is even smaller than compact and called subcompact?
Meaning the EV cant compete on size and price, never mind what one considers luxury. Typical young American family with barely a couple thousand dollars socked away for an emergency isnt concerned as much about "plastics" as it is in ride comfort for the family in a vehicle that can be used for many different purposes, with 2 kids and runs to Home Depot. Possible interstate to adventure parks too.

 

[SC Maintenance]

No, compact EVs are not as affordable as the average same size vehicle.

One can buy a pretty loaded 2024 Chevy Trax for 25k
One can buy a nice 3 row SUV for less than 45K and tow a 5000 lb boat an EV of that size would cost significantly more money.

and for the cost of a luxury EV SUV one can buy anyone of GMs interstate cruising monsters for significantly less, heck some of that size are not even offered in an EV.

Dont take my posts as anti EV which they are not but lets be fair in comparison regarding size.

This is the one that might be one of many that will continue to hammer Tesla, even if Tesla comes out with a new model.
Best part is, you can get this car under a lease agreement with $7,500 paid for by the taxpayers even though its built in China, they will structure it as a lease and put in the buy back price, more or less working around US requirements. Really smart how they pulled this off.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1140369_2025-volvo-ex30-ev-china-up-close

There will be no stopping Chinese EVs around the world, much like no stopping Japan back in the 1970s
Meanwhile GM will still sell their share and be insulated from a lot of this here in the USA by making what the majority wants, the ICE.
Though who knows, politicians love to beat down our own industries.

You had me convinced until you said GM was going to make cars people wanted to buy. Then your whole thesis just fell apart.

 

[Torrid]

Maybe we are talking about the same thing then.
Im talking size. In order to get an economy priced EV you have to settle for something like a BOLT which maybe is even smaller than compact and called subcompact?
Meaning the EV cant compete on size and price, never mind what one considers luxury. Typical young American family with barely a couple thousand dollars socked away for an emergency isnt concerned as much about "plastics" as it is in ride comfort for the family in a vehicle that can be used for many different purposes, with 2 kids and runs to Home Depot. Possible interstate to adventure parks too.

I mean they could hard plastic a whole interior like a 2000's Dodge, but Tesla is the wrong brand to do that. It's like expecting BMW or (insert any brand trying to hold a premium image) to make a stripper economy vehicle. It's just not going to happen. GM, Ford, and Dodge can all do this because thats what they used to do 20 years ago until every brand has decided to go higher market.

You're right though, it's not what everyone needs. I'm not buying the stripped out plastic car, but there's plenty that will. I'm not sure what the Bolt EUV size is, but it couldn't be that far off a Trax. I drove the old one and it was smaller feeling than my GTI with higher sitting seats. Maybe the new one is bigger?

 

[alarmguy]

I mean they could hard plastic a whole interior like a 2000's Dodge, but Tesla is the wrong brand to do that. It's like expecting BMW or (insert any brand trying to hold a premium image) to make a stripper economy vehicle. It's just not going to happen. GM, Ford, and Dodge can all do this because thats what they used to do 20 years ago until every brand has decided to go higher market.

You're right though, it's not what everyone needs. I'm not buying the stripped out plastic car, but there's plenty that will. I'm not sure what the Bolt EUV size is, but it couldn't be that far off a Trax. I drove the old one and it was smaller feeling than my GTI with higher sitting seats. Maybe the new one is bigger?

Wife and I sat in the 2023 BOLT EUV. On the outside to me, it is tiny but my wife likes it and calls it cute.
Inside you forget how small it is but I know I wouldnt be taking long trips in it. Seat all the way back, still kind of crunchy but then again her Mazda 3 is too, maybe a tad more leg room though.
Besides "cute" most important to my wife is sound system. It was pretty impressive.

Pretty much, I dont even know if we really need a second car anymore but I wouldnt be without one. SO whatever it is, it is going to be an inexpensive around town car and we will always have a larger 3 row type SUV for trips even if I give up the boat someday.

For example, went to my grandsons birthday party this past weekend, one day trip, just shy of four hours driving there and another 4 hours driving home. 255 miles each way. First almost 1.5 hours non interstate, 2.5 hours 80+ MPH interstate. I couldnt do that in a small vehicle. The Traverse is incredible, you dont feel the speed, I want to keep my license but I could easily set the cruise @ 90 MPH (or higher)and be in total comfort.

If I had an EV last thing I would be able to afford comfortably is something that size and then have to worry about changing it and stopping as well. Im sure even if I wanted to spend the money on something as capable as the Traverse in an EV at 80 to 85 MPH I am sure range anxiety would be first and foremost on my mind. Just explaining to others how much of the "other" part of our country works.
I do my own landscaping, the SUV is priceless for picking stuff up that I dont get delivered at the Home Improvement Stores and towing the boat.

I do wonder sometimes, as I pass Tesla's on the interstate, are they doing closer to the speed limit to preserve battery life?
I had one standout that was traveling the speed I was but (not kidding) it stood out in my mind so much I commented that to my wife.

Desperate for some food on the way home, we stopped for the first time at Bucees (dont know how to spell it) I did notice at LEAST a Dozen super changers with maybe one car, possibly two using them. Then in the back a few of some other brand.
This place also had something like god, kid you not, 50 gas pumps. Never saw anything like it.

 

[Torrid]

Wife and I sat in the 2023 BOLT EUV. On the outside to me, it is tiny but my wife likes it and calls it cute.
Inside you forget how small it is but I know I wouldnt be taking long trips in it. Seat all the way back, still kind of crunchy but then again her Mazda 3 is too, maybe a tad more leg room though.
Besides "cute" most important to my wife is sound system. It was pretty impressive.

Pretty much, I dont even know if we really need a second car anymore but I wouldnt be without one. SO whatever it is, it is going to be an inexpensive around town car and we will always have a larger 3 row type SUV for trips even if I give up the boat someday.

For example, went to my grandsons birthday party this past weekend, one day trip, just shy of four hours driving there and another 4 hours driving home. 255 miles each way. First almost 1.5 hours non interstate, 2.5 hours 80+ MPH interstate. I couldnt do that in a small vehicle. The Traverse is incredible, you dont feel the speed, I want to keep my license but I could easily set the cruise @ 90 MPH and be in total comfort.
If I had an EV last thing I would be able to afford comfortably is something that size and then have to worry about changing it and stopping as well. Im sure even if I wanted to spend the money on something as capable as the Traverse in an EV at 80 to 85 MPH I am sure range anxiety would be first and foremost on my mind. Just explaining to others how much of the "other" part of our country works.

I do long trips all the time in a small car. A very refined one with suspension that adjusts at the push of a button, but it is all what we get used to. I personally wouldn't choose an EV first for that drive constantly, but then again as much as I like EVs I still don't daily one.