Tennessee proposes mandatory paternity tests

[Al]

Originally Posted By: moribundman
Nobody is then innocent until proven guilty, but everyone is potentially guilty unless proven innocent.

That makes no sense. Nothing in the courts will change. Person is still presumed innocent until proven guilty by the evidence (DNA Data Bank)

Paranoia gone wild again.

 

[moribundman]

Don't be naive. The chain of evidence is being reversed. It's a perfect system for "solving" every crime. The evidence is just one DNA sample away.

 

[oilyriser]

But if you allow GPS tracking of your every move, you can prove you were not at the scene.

 

[moribundman]

Whose GPS data will be considered the correct one? The one from my GPS, or the one from the device implanted in my pinkie toe (It's coming!)

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: moribundman
Don't be naive. The chain of evidence is being reversed. It's a perfect system for "solving" every crime. The evidence is just one DNA sample away.

Mori this is not that difficult to understand. You are charged with a crime by a witness, finger prints, Shoe prints, tire prints, and yes DNA. Are you following me here?

 

[Gary Allan]

All of this stuff is fine as long as you feel that you can trust those charged with using it for the protection of the population. When that evolves to protection "from" the population ..then you have big problems.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Don't be naive. The chain of evidence is being reversed. It's a perfect system for "solving" every crime. The evidence is just one DNA sample away.

Mori this is not that difficult to understand. You are charged with a crime by a witness, finger prints, Shoe prints, tire prints, and yes DNA. Are you following me here?


Well, Al, apparently I'm stupid and don't understand or even realize the implications.

 

[Shannow]

Problem is, that in spite of all of the evidence against it being definitive, DNA is considered being the holy grail of evidence, i.e. irrefutable.

Chimerism makes it unreliable at best, unless the sample taken is the same bodily fluid/material type as the the sample used...a cheek swab has nothing to do with the testing of a rape suspect.

Al, would you be happy with registering your tyre and shoe purchases with the Government, so that tyre and shoe prints found at the scene of any crime could be "short-listed", and subject you to questioning ?

Have you forwarded your fingerprints to authorities, as you "have nothing to hide" ?

mori's "assumption of guilt" has merit. There have been two cases down here, where the entire male population of towns have been coerced into volunteering DNA samples (cheek swabs) to "prove their innocence" in (admittedly very nasty) rape cases.

The words used by the authorities are "voluntary" "prove their innocence", and "nothing to hide".

Media show lines of males, and ask the question "which one was the culprit ?"

The only reason a few hundred males line up to give a cheek swab is purely to prove their innocence.

 

[moribundman]

Then there are all the privacy issues that go hand in hand with the collection of DNA. Just like Social Security numbers and other private information are sold for commercial uses, collected DNA data will ultimately not be appropriately safeguarded, but it will be sold out. Health insurance companies, employers and other entities with invested interest, they all would love to not only gain a glimpse into a person's future (diseases etc), which DNA analysis allows to some degree, for manifold reasons ranging from the well-intended, but to the easily abused criminal forensic area all the way to commercial interests. DNA may be marketable, and why should a person have to surrender that which represents his biological entity to unknown or any use by others for their gain? Genetic determinism will be pushed as a positive and necessary thing in the evolutionary ladder.

Go ahead, collect the DNA of found guilty criminals, I'm all for it. Naturally it will lead to people being found guilty of tossing a gum wrapper in the gutter and, after having been found guilty they will be forced to surrender their DNA simply based on their conviction. To collect everyone's DNA amounts to assumption of guilt and to utter exploitation. It's just a wrong concept.

Establishing comprehensive DNA databanks is without any doubt the first step to putting into place eugenics. With eugenics, we will see genetic discrimination, racism and classism of unprecedented extent. It will mean the end of free will. Brave new world, anyone?

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Al, would you be happy with registering your tyre and shoe purchases with the Government, so that tyre and shoe prints found at the scene of any crime could be "short-listed", and subject you to questioning ?

Have you forwarded your fingerprints to authorities, as you "have nothing to hide" ?


Well the Tire/Shoe purchase is dumb. But the commercial world already knows which shoes and Tires I bought for the last ten years..so who cares if the government knows it.

And yes the Government has my fingerprints. They have it bc I allowed them to have it as a condition for working in a Nuclear Facility.

Funny that all present ex military and present/fomer cops have all their prints on file. The very people charged with protecting the country from within and without. They don't seem to have a problem with it.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: moribundman
Then there are all the privacy issues that go hand in hand with the collection of DNA. Just like Social Security numbers and other private information are sold for commercial uses, collected DNA data will ultimately not be appropriately safeguarded, but it will be sold out.

I'll give you that. But you obviously realize that all your CC, Finalncial Institutions, employers, and cell phone companies have your SS# right? They are the ones that sell them..not the Gov.

 

[moribundman]

Al, the government should prevent sensitive information from being accessed, give away, and sold. If you've resigned to accepting the loss of your privacy to the point where you don't care if your DNA "gets out there," or if you even willingly surrender it, well, then you deserve what may be coming your way.

The DMV does give away, sell or grant access to SS and other private information to commercial users. The DMV is a state government organization. I know what car specific junk mail I got in the mail shortly after I renewed my driver's license earlier this year. Neither my internet provider nor my phone company has my SS number (at least I did not furnish it).

 

[oilyriser]

Originally Posted By: moribundman
Establishing comprehensive DNA databanks is without any doubt the first step to putting into place eugenics. With eugenics, we will see genetic discrimination, racism and classism of unprecedented extent. It will mean the end of free will. Brave new world, anyone?


This time the victims will not have their homes marked with the star, but will be registered in an online database of people unfit to work, or unfit to buy insurance. It won't be racial discrimination in the current sense of skin colour, but perhaps someone will prove a correlation between red hair and genetics that tend to promote heart disease, and use it as a reason to not hire red-haired people.

 

[mikeg5]

i am all for the praternity tests to see if i am the real daddy lol but as far as making the database STAY OUT OF MY F'ING BUISNESS!

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Then there are all the privacy issues that go hand in hand with the collection of DNA. Just like Social Security numbers and other private information are sold for commercial uses, collected DNA data will ultimately not be appropriately safeguarded, but it will be sold out. Health insurance companies, employers and other entities with invested interest,


Gattaca

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Al
Well the Tire/Shoe purchase is dumb.


You brought them to the table.

Having a DNA database of people who have never been convicted of a crime is the same as registering all tyre and shoe purchases "just in case" they commit a crime.

All of them are evidence that may be used to build a body of evidence against a person suspected of a crime, including DNA, and a court order to obtain it.

 

[Shannow]

The Insurance companies down here are required to operate under "community rating", i.e. their coverage of heart disease is included with the general premium, along with kidney disease and cancer.

They are desperate for any little thread that will enable them to exclude coverage from people contributing their own additional risk factors like smoking. Imagine what they'd do to premiums if they could identify "cancer genes" etc.

 

[Louie's gone fishing]

If you want to see your info travel around, get a hot mail account and spell your name wrong, go to the mall and sign up for one of those give-aways. Or use a Hispanic name and see how many credit card applications you will receive. Our record for Jose Gonzalo Refugio Exavior Mendez in 28 credit card offers. In the pool we set up this name was the winner and generated a prize of $20. Imagine the privacy struggle for all those visitors that don't speak English and don't plan to lean it? It's especially difficult when they have to make up a new SSN for every welfare application they fill out. At least it's easy to translate numbers from Spanish to English if you can write them down instead of pronouncing them. Some common addresses that get used for welfare applications stick the real resident with a lot of junk mail trying to sell diapers, beer and lottery tickets. Lack of privacy makes getting the mail a nuisance for real citizens.

 

[oilyriser]

They already tried a face scanning exercise at a football stadium to look for possible perps, using DMV photo data.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Al
Well the Tire/Shoe purchase is dumb.


You brought them to the table.

Having a DNA database of people who have never been convicted of a crime is the same as registering all tyre and shoe purchases "just in case" they commit a crime.


Ummm..I indicated that Tire (Tyre) prints and shoe prints were "Evidence". If you can make the leap and feel that they need to go into a data base, that's up to you and the Aussie Gov.