Tell me what you think...2002 Camaro LS1-Mobil 1 5w30

[Chris B.]

This is my very 1st UOA!!!
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1
Mobil 1 5w30 SS
3,000 miles on oil
10,366 miles on the car

Aluminum 3
Chromium 1
Iorn 16
Copper 118
lead 8
Tin 3
Molybdenum 68
Nickel 1
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 0
Boron 157
Silicon 14
Sodium 9
Calcium 3397
Magnesium 17
Phosphorus 709
Zinc 933
Barium 0

SUS Viscosity=57.6
Flashpoint in deg.F=415
Fule-
Antifreeze=0.0
Water=0.0
Insolubles%0.2
TBN=3.6

I had a Mobil 1 oil fliter on to begin with but is started to leek so I changed it out with a Napa Gold at around 1,500 miles and toped it off with 3/4 qt of oil. This was the only oil added that needed to be added. Also had a K&N air filter but now has a Napa Gold!

How does this look? I got the Dyson analysis but all they put in the comments section was the TBN. I think Terry might get with me after the 4th weekend as I think they got my oil sample late in the day today. Blackstone labs were great to deal with and I look forward to hearing what Terry has to say!

 

[3 Mad Ponchos]

I find that to be a shockingly low TBN after only 3k miles. But then they're using a new scale so I could just not be used to the new numbers.

But after 12k I was still at 3.2.

Cheers, 3MP

 

[buster]

TBN is way to low for that mileage. Were you using another oil prior to M1?

 

[Chris B.]

I thought that the TBN was low also. The car was factory filled with Mobil 1 and I have been using Mobil 1 sense.
How are the other wear #'s looking?
I was wondering what some of the other elements are like Boron @157, Calcium @ 3397, etc.

I'll call Blackstone on Tuesday to see what they think on that low TBN.

 

[buster]

If this is the new way, your TBN is actually around a 5-7 the old way. How many months are on this oil?

 

[Patman]

Honestly, this is just more proof to what I've been telling LS1 owners for a while now, that Mobil 1 5w30 is just too thin for this engine and doesn't protect it as well as Redline or Amsoil would. Or if you insist on M1, go with 0w40, or mix in 2qts of 15w50 with the 5w30.

 

[buster]

quote:

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Honestly, this is just more proof to what I've been telling LS1 owners for a while now, that Mobil 1 5w30 is just too thin for this engine and doesn't protect it as well as Redline or Amsoil would.

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One UOA and you think it's too thin? What about 3MP's study? Or Vettes that have great UOA's with M1 5w30? Thats like me saying, yep, this one Redline analysis is proof that Redline is not as good as it should be.

It's also a new engine with only 11k miles on it. The added oil was also from the filter change. GM engines always have high copper numbers. I agree though that these engines might need a heavier oil, but I don't think it's that bad.

[ July 04, 2003, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Patman]

It's not just one UOA though Buster, it's many of them. 3MPs wear numbers aren't that great with M1 either. If you look at Amsoil or Redline's results in the LS1/LS6, they are better than M1.

 

[buster]

We'll see Patman. I think the wear numbers are fine for that study. Maybe Amsoil's will be better but I havn't seen any other UOA's you are refering too in LS1's that are so much better. Are they on this site? I take it you are one that still believes that a heavier oil is better? I can understand why, but I think that idea is changine. The Schaeffer's oil you posted in your 95 Formula didn't have such good wear numbers either. I think these engines just wear like this regardless.

[ July 04, 2003, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Terry]

Chris, you've got mail, sent the "read" last night late.

 

[buster]

quote:

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I still stand by my belief that the LS1 likes an oil closer to 12 or 13cst at 100c. The clearances in this engine are slightly looser than most production engines from what I have gathered. Oil consumption also drops quite a bit when someone switches from Mobil 1 5w30 to a slightly thicker oil.

---

I think your right. Your a lot more familiar with these engines then I am, but I would think too that a heavier oil, such as Amsoil would be a better match for this engine possibly.

 

[Al]

I think though that if the vehicle produced numbers like this per 1000 miles the engine would go longer than any of us would want it too. But again the TBN numbers are such that no one knows when the oil is used up. For instance could this oil go 6K miles. maybe/maybe not. It is safe to say though that changing this oil every 3K is adequate to more than adequate.

Having said this though-I also have been spouting for a while that the Mobil 1 needs to be thickened up to a higher 30 wt by using some 15w30 oil . This concept seems to be picking up some momentum here. The other thing is (to me)-You can take all of the 5w30 M-1 oil and pour it in the Used oil drum.

. I'll take the Mobil 1 10w30 thank you very much.

 

[buster]

I think M1 5w30 is a great choice for a new ford or honda that calls for a 20wt oil. I'm with Al and like the 10w30 best.

 

[Patman]

Here is an Amsoil report in a 2002 Corvette which showed much better numbers, and on a very fresh engine too:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000286

 

[buster]

Patman, other TBN, how is it better? Copper was much higher and iron was about the same.

 

[Al]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
Patman, other TBN, how is it better? Copper was much higher and iron was about the same.

---

Uh-oh Buster. You're gonna' loose this one with Patman. The last post had twice the miles.

[ July 04, 2003, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: Al ]

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
Patman, other TBN, how is it better? Copper was much higher and iron was about the same.

---

Yep, like Al said, it was double the mileage. Ignore the copper, since it was the second oil change on the car, and copper is very high on the LS1 on the first and second oil change, and really doesn't get to a normal level until after 50k. But the copper is harmless as you can see by the extremely low lead numbers in that Corvette UOA.

 

[Chris B.]

I got the email Terry and thanks for all the great info!

The low TBN is really like a 6 or 7 on the old scale and the oil sheared back just a tad to 57.6 to a 20w where 58 is a 30w so the oil did not shear very much. I also think that a thicker oil would be better and the engine now has 10w30 Mobil 1 in it. In another 3,000 miles I'll get it analysed!

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris B.:
I got the email Terry and thanks for all the great info!

The low TBN is really like a 6 or 7 on the old scale and the oil sheared back just a tad to 57.6 to a 20w where 58 is a 30w so the oil did not shear very much. I also think that a thicker oil would be better and the engine now has 10w30 Mobil 1 in it. In another 3,000 miles I'll get it analysed!

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57.6 is 9.5 cSt, which is a 30 wt. (30 wt is 9.3 to 12.49.)

 

[3 Mad Ponchos]

Holy crap, the scales are so different that the TBN is about HALF what it used to be? Man, that's gonna take some getting used to.

Blackstone is gonna help me with some testing where they'll test the same sample using both methods. Should be interesting.

Cheers, 3MP