Techron and PEA

[buddylpal]

Not too long ago there were some folks who seemed to think Techron CFSC no longer had PEA because they no longer mentioned it on the bottle. I picked up a couple bottles this morning of the 20oz size while they are on sale at Advance auto. There's a peel away sticker on the back that I'm sure some would like to see lol.

 

[gathermewool]

I must have missed the post where people were saying it did not have PEA in it.

 

[rrretiree7]

Is it better than Gumout products??

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

Originally Posted by rrretiree7

Is it better than Gumout products??

Depends who you ask, but I think the Techron hardcore purests will say Techron likely has a higher PEA content/percentage. IDK, but both are likely good products....

 

[Davejam]

Yeah there was controversy that their packaging and/or safety data sheets used to specify PEA, but that changed. But whether or not it said it it had PEA. It's about the same as Gumout Regane/Redline SI. It really comes down to cost vs. concentration. Bottom line is you can't go wrong with Techron given a decent sale.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I haven't found the need anymore. Fuels have PLENTY of detergency. Seems to do more harm than good from past experience. I had long/ hard starting after using Techron once. And it lasted for the remainder of the vehicles life.

 

[Kira]

I've been told that jumping to conclusions isn't appreciated around here. I see now how silly it reads. Don't get me wrong; sorry about that car of yours the Techron allegedly damaged, but one dose of a product which is said to be similar (if not the same) as what is put in better fuels likely didn't cause your long/hard start condition.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted by Kira

I've been told that jumping to conclusions isn't appreciated around here. I see now how silly it reads. Don't get me wrong; sorry about that car of yours the Techron allegedly damaged, but one dose of a product which is said to be similar (if not the same) as what is put in better fuels likely didn't cause your long/hard start condition.

I have to agree.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by gathermewool

Originally Posted by Kira

I've been told that jumping to conclusions isn't appreciated around here. I see now how silly it reads. Don't get me wrong; sorry about that car of yours the Techron allegedly damaged, but one dose of a product which is said to be similar (if not the same) as what is put in better fuels likely didn't cause your long/hard start condition.

I have to agree.

+3

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite

I haven't found the need anymore. Fuels have PLENTY of detergency. Seems to do more harm than good from past experience. I had long/ hard starting after using Techron once. And it lasted for the remainder of the vehicles life.

I would have tried further cleaning. The only logical explanation I can think of for that to happen is excessive buildup that the techron started to clean and moved it into a more harmful area. That would be kind of a bad luck thing to happen in my opinion. I've run cleaners in a number of vehicles over the years and nothing like that has happened. A couple tanks of cleaner in my Silverado seems to have improved the long term fuel trim numbers noticeably (it was running somewhat lean according to the trims), and this truck had nothing but top tier esso gas (fuel card) since 2010 or earlier.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted by wag123

Originally Posted by gathermewool

Originally Posted by Kira

I've been told that jumping to conclusions isn't appreciated around here. I see now how silly it reads. Don't get me wrong; sorry about that car of yours the Techron allegedly damaged, but one dose of a product which is said to be similar (if not the same) as what is put in better fuels likely didn't cause your long/hard start condition.

I have to agree.

+3

I have to disagree with your agreement to disagree! Not the first time I've seen poor running after installing this stuff. Not a hint of this issue until the Techron went in. At a likely higher doping rate than in commercial fuels Yes it is a sample of one. Not statistically significant. But we will never get to significance, so its all I have. Just a heads up for the unknowing to hesitate, and think. And to repeat, this stuff is NOT needed with the higher detergency in today's fuels. Can You agree with that assertion?

 

[caprice_2nv]

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite

Originally Posted by wag123

Originally Posted by gathermewool

Originally Posted by Kira

I've been told that jumping to conclusions isn't appreciated around here. I see now how silly it reads. Don't get me wrong; sorry about that car of yours the Techron allegedly damaged, but one dose of a product which is said to be similar (if not the same) as what is put in better fuels likely didn't cause your long/hard start condition.

I have to agree.

+3

I have to disagree with your agreement to disagree! Not the first time I've seen poor running after installing this stuff. Not a hint of this issue until the Techron went in. At a likely higher doping rate than in commercial fuels Yes it is a sample of one. Not statistically significant. But we will never get to significance, so its all I have. Just a heads up for the unknowing to hesitate, and think. And to repeat, this stuff is NOT needed with the higher detergency in today's fuels. Can You agree with that assertion?

I don't believe its needed regularly but after 200k miles and 8600 engine hours it can't (IMO) hurt. My sample size is only like 7 personal vehicles (mostly carbureted) and then the rest of my sample is the fact that I haven't seen anyone else before you experience that kind of problems. I would bet that more people on here use fuel additives than the general public, whether it's needed or not. I've almost never noticed any change, good or bad after running fuel system cleaner, its more of a preventative measure because I've had a couple carb issues from white buildup due to ethanol in the gas. But the chance of negative effects is nearly zero in my opinion, unless you way over dosed a strong cleaner and damaged the fuel pump.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite

Originally Posted by wag123

Originally Posted by gathermewool

Originally Posted by Kira

I've been told that jumping to conclusions isn't appreciated around here. I see now how silly it reads. Don't get me wrong; sorry about that car of yours the Techron allegedly damaged, but one dose of a product which is said to be similar (if not the same) as what is put in better fuels likely didn't cause your long/hard start condition.

I have to agree.

+3

I have to disagree with your agreement to disagree! Not the first time I've seen poor running after installing this stuff. Not a hint of this issue until the Techron went in. At a likely higher doping rate than in commercial fuels Yes it is a sample of one. Not statistically significant. But we will never get to significance, so its all I have. Just a heads up for the unknowing to hesitate, and think. And to repeat, this stuff is NOT needed with the higher detergency in today's fuels. Can You agree with that assertion?

Just because you assert an opinion doesn't make you correct. This isn't the first time that you have made irrational assertions about how an additive has somehow damaged a vehicle that you own. How do you explain the auto manufacturer's selling PEA (probably Techron in many cases) in their own bottles with their own part numbers in dealer parts departments and recommending the use in their vehicles? Some manufacturers actually require it's periodic use. Or, what about the fact that the oil companies put this very additive in varying concentrations in the gas that they are selling and you are using? Do you think that the auto manufacturers and oil companies are conspiring to damage their customer's vehicles? It is obvious that you have a highly anti-additive opinion and for some unknown reason you are trying to dissuade others from using them. I have to assume that you no-longer put ANY kind of additive in any of your vehicles? If not, why are you still using them?

 

[LubricatusObsess]

Geez - just buy Top Tier gasoline and don't worry about it. Top Tier was developed and certified to ensure fuel systems are kept clean from deposits.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess

Geez - just buy Top Tier gasoline and don't worry about it. Top Tier was developed and certified to ensure fuel systems are kept clean from deposits.

I don't know how much development went into Top Tier. It's really only a performance and licensing standard. All the standard tests were already in place, and many fuel marketers had already gone well beyond the EPA minimum performance requirement. Chevron was the biggest name, but Shell, Mobile, and Exxon had been big on advertising the detergent performance of their additive package. Now the one thing that might have changed with Top Tier is the marketing potential could be extended. Now you've got Costco and convenience store chains using it to market their fuel with having to buy a lot of ads.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted by wag123

Just because you assert an opinion doesn't make you correct. This isn't the first time that you have made irrational assertions about how an additive has somehow damaged a vehicle that you own. How do you explain the auto manufacturer's selling PEA (probably Techron in many cases) in their own bottles with their own part numbers in dealer parts departments and recommending the use in their vehicles? Some manufacturers actually require it's periodic use. Or, what about the fact that the oil companies put this very additive in varying concentrations in the gas that they are selling and you are using? Do you think that the auto manufacturers and oil companies are conspiring to damage their customer's vehicles? It is obvious that you have a highly anti-additive opinion and for some unknown reason you are trying to dissuade others from using them. I have to assume that you no-longer put ANY kind of additive in any of your vehicles? If not, why are you still using them?

Not the first time, but maybe the second if you include LiquiMoly in my 2012 Honda Fit sport. The moly works fine in the generator which is unfiltered. At least I've experienced no problems after dosing. I've used this stuff over the decades and It's NEVER done anything GOOD, and a couple times some thing BAD occurred immediately after using it; And there is more solvent in that bottle along with the PEA. I don't have significant data to share do you? So I'm sticking with not needed with a probability ( however low that may be) of deleterious effects. I see you did NOT address the Top Tier argument. Just my opinion based on real world experience over decades. Its all I have.

 

[LubricatusObsess]

Originally Posted by y_p_w

Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess

Geez - just buy Top Tier gasoline and don't worry about it. Top Tier was developed and certified to ensure fuel systems are kept clean from deposits.

I don't know how much development went into Top Tier. It's really only a performance and licensing standard. All the standard tests were already in place, and many fuel marketers had already gone well beyond the EPA minimum performance requirement. Chevron was the biggest name, but Shell, Mobile, and Exxon had been big on advertising the detergent performance of their additive package. Now the one thing that might have changed with Top Tier is the marketing potential could be extended. Now you've got Costco and convenience store chains using it to market their fuel with having to buy a lot of ads.

There are many cheapo fuel outlets that don't spend the extra 3 cents per gallon for the extra additives needed to keep engines clean. Here in the Twin Cities, most of the gasoline outlets are not Top Tier - we have to plan our routes to end up near one of them. The 3 still here are Holiday, Kwik Trip, and Costco. Superamerica was another, but they sold to Marathon who decided to change to cheapo Speedway brand without Top Tier instead of their Marathon brand with Top Tier. Superamerica controlled 50% of the gasoline market here. I wrote them an email and they confirmed Speedway is not Top Tier. It is very important for modern engines that all have fuel injectors now.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess

There are many cheapo fuel outlets that don't spend the extra 3 cents per gallon for the extra additives needed to keep engines clean. Here in the Twin Cities, most of the gasoline outlets are not Top Tier - we have to plan our routes to end up near one of them. The 3 still here are Holiday, Kwik Trip, and Costco. Superamerica was another, but they sold to Marathon who decided to change to cheapo Speedway brand without Top Tier instead of their Marathon brand with Top Tier. Superamerica controlled 50% of the gasoline market here. I wrote them an email and they confirmed Speedway is not Top Tier. It is very important for modern engines that all have fuel injectors now.

How do you know the level of additives used at the stations that are not Top Tier? Of course they do need to be at the EPA minimum level, but beyond that you don't know if they are not the same as the Top Tier stations, do you? That's kind of the point of Top Tier that it is an outside agency that is guaranteeing a superior level or additives, but that doesn't mean a station without Top Tier certification does not use additional additives. Bottom line is that they may not spend the extra "3 cents" but you don't know that they don't.

 

[Davejam]

Originally Posted by kschachn

How do you know the level of additives used at the stations that are not Top Tier? Of course they do need to be at the EPA minimum level, but beyond that you don't know if they are not the same as the Top Tier stations, do you? That's kind of the point of Top Tier that it is an outside agency that is guaranteeing a superior level or additives, but that doesn't mean a station without Top Tier certification does not use additional additives. Bottom line is that they may not spend the extra "3 cents" but you don't know that they don't.

You're right, you don't know for sure if unbranded station x is using additive above the minimum required. But you have a pretty darn good idea...because otherwise they would either be top tier or promoting the fact that they were using more than minimum. And there have been testimonials from gas truck delivery drivers describing the process and that there are differences. I think the consensus on this forum would be if you used unbranded fuel for the life of your vehicle vs top tier the resulting carbon deposits on pistons, valves, etc would be statistically different. There is certainly marketing data to that affect. Its certainly your right to believe and do whatever you want.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by Davejam

Originally Posted by kschachn

How do you know the level of additives used at the stations that are not Top Tier? Of course they do need to be at the EPA minimum level, but beyond that you don't know if they are not the same as the Top Tier stations, do you? That's kind of the point of Top Tier that it is an outside agency that is guaranteeing a superior level or additives, but that doesn't mean a station without Top Tier certification does not use additional additives. Bottom line is that they may not spend the extra "3 cents" but you don't know that they don't.

You're right, you don't know for sure if unbranded station x is using additive above the minimum required. But you have a pretty darn good idea...because otherwise they would either be top tier or promoting the fact that they were using more than minimum. And there have been testimonials from gas truck delivery drivers describing the process and that there are differences. I think the consensus on this forum would be if you used unbranded fuel for the life of your vehicle vs top tier the resulting carbon deposits on pistons, valves, etc would be statistically different. There is certainly marketing data to that affect. Its certainly your right to believe and do whatever you want.

It's pretty unlikely that any company that doesn't market its fuel as having some super duper detergent additive isn't likely to pay for something extra. Before Costco brought out their "Clean Power" their website only noted that gasoline was required to meet government standards and that fuel was a fungible commodity that they bought on the commodity market. But they had a clear listing of which stations had their "Clean Power" setup and advertised this as using concentration that was 5x what would be needed to meet EPA minimum requirements. I remember one post where someone contacted Valero and got an admission that they used whatever generic additive was available at the fuel depot in minimum required concentration, although sometimes they specified a little bit more.