Taycan Turbo S for the win!

[UncleDave]

Nowhere close to 200 in stock form.

OF course BMW could build a 200MPh street car about any year they applied themselves (I Love that NA mclarenF1 engine BTW) Thats not saying much.

There have been tons of 200 mph street cars built in garages with big and small block chevies by regular guys.

RJ Gottlieb's big block camaro that won the golden state classic for several years putting the euros on the trailer comes to mind.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Nowhere close to 200 in stock form.

Headers and highway gears.

 

[OVERKILL]

Tesla is expected to outsell BMW overall within 5 years. Kinda funny how such lousy cars are killing BMW in the market. iPad and all. By the way, young people love the Tesla techy interface. BMW and others would do well to learn how to attract the next generation of car buyers. The iDrive ain't it.

I meant my post to showcase the wonderful Taycan, but Tesla haters gonna hate. I salute both cars and am looking forward to spirited competition.

The newest iDrive in the i4/iX really is pretty decent, particularly with the HUD, that Tesla still doesn't have.

I work in IT and I'm certainly not enamoured with the Tesla "techy" interface. While I find faults in all of them (Audi's MMI is very attractive, but the depth of the menus is nuts, for example), the interfaces on the e-tron, the Taycan, the i4/iX and the MB products do feel like an extension of the car; something that replaces conventional gauges, and they are all paired with a HUD. The big tablet in the centre just seems quite awkward in comparison, same with having to look away from the road to check your speed or see a map or any of the things you can see in the HUD on these other marques.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Headers and highway gears.

The first production road car to hit 200 mph was the 1987 Ferrari F40.

 

[edyvw]

Thats one article not a comprehensive breakdown and competitive analysis.

I can make any cars brakes catch fire. IF you want bigger brakes check the box and spend the money.

I dont care what you like and dont like - we all get top pick what we like

We dont get to pick the numbers though and I'm data driven vs "feelings"

Car that goes 200mph+ should NEVER catch fire after this “exercise.” Actually, my minivan I just sold would not.

When company sells vehicle of that “performance” they should have brakes from factory that can match performance. I stay with my BMW with stock brakes 2hrs on track in one session and don’t have fade problems.

This is amateur hour, and no, Porsche would never fail like this (or some other serious manufacturer). BMW on M3/4 has ceramic brake option that no one buys as regular brakes do their job excellent.

As for braking data, you should know that data is like bikini, shows a lot, but covers most important parts.

 

[UncleDave]

Car that goes 200mph+ should NEVER catch fire after this “exercise.” Actually, my minivan I just sold would not.

When company sells vehicle of that “performance” they should have brakes from factory that can match performance. I stay with my BMW with stock brakes 2hrs on track in one session and don’t have fade problems.

This is amateur hour, and no, Porsche would never fail like this (or some other serious manufacturer). BMW on M3/4 has ceramic brake option that no one buys as regular brakes do their job excellent.

As for braking data, you should know that data is like bikini, shows a lot, but covers most important parts.

So that model in the lineup is weak and they should have only shipped it with the 20K brake option. Bad on Tesla. Thing is this fixes the problem so what's left to whine about but the original decision?

That 3rd party data on the rest of the lineup (the cars that way more poeple are going to buy sold on much higher volumes) shows that on the whole the Teslas outbrake that Porsches and the BMW's. Good on Tesla.

You have to give to Ceasar what is Caesars.

BMW brakes also catch on fire, what kind of amateur hour company makes a car this slow that still has brakes that catch on fire?
I guess you should send BMW your minivan to learn from. This wasnt even on a track and they were doing the same thing -repeated panic stops.
I guess we need to dismiss every model as not being up to par because of this test right? That what you are saying.





Im not sure I agree with the Bikini analogy. It sounds like an excuse to not come up with comparative data, or acknowledge it when its present.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The newest iDrive in the i4/iX really is pretty decent, particularly with the HUD, that Tesla still doesn't have.

I work in IT and I'm certainly not enamoured with the Tesla "techy" interface. While I find faults in all of them (Audi's MMI is very attractive, but the depth of the menus is nuts, for example), the interfaces on the e-tron, the Taycan, the i4/iX and the MB products do feel like an extension of the car; something that replaces conventional gauges, and they are all paired with a HUD. The big tablet in the centre just seems quite awkward in comparison, same with having to look away from the road to check your speed or see a map or any of the things you can see in the HUD on these other marques.

Tesla's lack of HUD and outside mirror BSM is a big ommission IMO. They are especially missed after driving our Lexi. The Tesla tablet is getting better in this regard, but again, IMO, falls far short.

My career was also in IT; initially I struggled with the Tesla interface as many do. Around here, in the early days you would see Model 3s at the side of the road with frustrated drivers struggling to perform tasks. These things are different, no doubt. Full disclosure, as a programmer I am a terrible computer user; I have never played a computer game besides Solitaire, and that was rare. I can barely operate Excel.

Today I use mostly voice commands while driving the Model 3. I rarely touch the screen. My point about the Tesla tech is, the future car customers take to the tablet interface naturally. I don't try to keep up with them.

While I have zero experience with the other modern interfaces that you mention, the Model 3's main driving parameters such as speed, speed limit, etc are right at top of the tablet, not much different than a traditional speedometer. And the amount of driving information such as number of lanes, surrounding vehicles, bike riders, and traffic objects such as cones is amazing. For the most part, after driving the Model 3 and then driving the Lexi, all those switches and buttons seem overly complicated. The Tesla interface is futuristic, far superior and highly updateable.
"Set the temperature to 70". "Turn the fan up." "My butt is cold." "Play Paul Butterfield." "Set volume to 10."
Perhaps try "Beam me up Scotty" or "Eject passender seat."

Having said all this, these cars are not for everyone. I tell people that all the time.
@OVERKILL , which way do you see cars going? IMO, Tesla is setting the stage for future cars. Software based design offers such promise, just as the Apple II and IBM PC did back in the 1980s.

 

[edyvw]

So that model in the lineup is weak and they should have only shipped it with the 20K brake option. Bad on Tesla. Thing is this fixes the problem so what's left to whine about but the original decision?

That 3rd party data on the rest of the lineup (the cars that way more poeple are going to buy sold on much higher volumes) shows that on the whole the Teslas outbrake that Porsches and the BMW's. Good on Tesla.

You have to give to Ceasar what is Caesars.

Im not sure I agree with the Bikini analogy, sounds like an excuse to not come up with comparative data.

It is an option! Performance car comes from the factory with appropriate brakes (actually, most cars do, performance or not). Other performance cars come with performance brakes from the factory and options that further (maybe) increase performance. That is why very few people buy M3/4 ceramic brakes, as a base option is already sufficient for that vehicle's performance and intended exploitation (track). What Tesla is supposed to do (besides changing the caliper design that is obviously one of the culprits in bad heat dissipation) is to offer the ceramic option as the only option at original price, but then, grift.... The truth is, Tesla could improve regular brakes by using a different caliper design and better flow of air from air ducts (I would not be surprised if there are any actually due to aerodynamic issues) but then that would require redesign etc., which obviously they re not willing to do.

As for that data, appliance cars also brake in that range. Take average Golf 1.4TSI with summer tires (EU versions), and it will score around 35m. Problem is not one-stop; problems are repeated stops. Plaid can score the same in one stop. That does not mean Model Y has a problem, but you will NEVER have this issue on Porsche, BMW, or Mercedes models. I was last week at the track, and some guy came in a brand new 911, no preparations as he is oblivious to it, just took the car and blasted it on track. Braking too much, when it is not necessary etc., and the car just did it as it was supposed to do in the hand of a guy that is oblivious to track needs. Someone will do it with Plaid too, but it ain't gonna perform as 911. And that is that amateurism and focus on shiny objects in Tesla that came back "to bite." I am not saying that will deter TIK TOK crowd from buying this vehicle. For them, 0-60 is the only thing that matters, as I'am not sure they understand what brakes are for anyway.
Basically, Tesla can get away with subpar brakes, like they can get away with trapping people in burning cars etc. and they do not give malarky about it.

 

[UncleDave]

It is an option! Performance car comes from the factory with appropriate brakes (actually, most cars do, performance or not). Other performance cars come with performance brakes from the factory and options that further (maybe) increase performance. That is why very few people buy M3/4 ceramic brakes, as a base option is already sufficient for that vehicle's performance and intended exploitation (track). What Tesla is supposed to do (besides changing the caliper design that is obviously one of the culprits in bad heat dissipation) is to offer the ceramic option as the only option at original price, but then, grift.... The truth is, Tesla could improve regular brakes by using a different caliper design and better flow of air from air ducts (I would not be surprised if there are any actually due to aerodynamic issues) but then that would require redesign etc., which obviously they re not willing to do.

As for that data, appliance cars also brake in that range. Take average Golf 1.4TSI with summer tires (EU versions), and it will score around 35m. Problem is not one-stop; problems are repeated stops. Plaid can score the same in one stop. That does not mean Model Y has a problem, but you will NEVER have this issue on Porsche, BMW, or Mercedes models. I was last week at the track, and some guy came in a brand new 911, no preparations as he is oblivious to it, just took the car and blasted it on track. Braking too much, when it is not necessary etc., and the car just did it as it was supposed to do in the hand of a guy that is oblivious to track needs. Someone will do it with Plaid too, but it ain't gonna perform as 911. And that is that amateurism and focus on shiny objects in Tesla that came back "to bite." I am not saying that will deter TIK TOK crowd from buying this vehicle. For them, 0-60 is the only thing that matters, as I'am not sure they understand what brakes are for anyway.
Basically, Tesla can get away with subpar brakes, like they can get away with trapping people in burning cars etc. and they do not give malarky about it.

BMW is just as guilty as tesla with underbraking their cars see the video above where the BMW brakes caught fire.

 

[edyvw]

Tesla's lack of HUD and outside mirror BSM is a big ommission IMO. They are especially missed after driving our Lexi. The Tesla tablet is getting better in this regard, but again, IMO, falls far short.

My career was also in IT; initially I struggled with the Tesla interface as many do. Around here, in the early days you would see Model 3s at the side of the road with frustrated drivers struggling to perform tasks. These things are different, no doubt. Full disclosure, as a programmer I am a terrible computer user; I have never played a computer game besides Solitaire, and that was rare. I can barely operate Excel.

Today I use mostly voice commands while driving the Model 3. I rarely touch the screen. My point about the Tesla tech is, the future car customers take to the tablet interface naturally. I don't try to keep up with them.

While I have zero experience with the other modern interfaces that you mention, the Model 3's main driving parameters such as speed, speed limit, etc are right at top of the tablet, not much different than a traditional speedometer. And the amount of driving information such as number of lanes, surrounding vehicles, bike riders, and traffic objects such as cones is amazing. For the most part, after driving the Model 3 and then driving the Lexi, all those switches and buttons seem overly complicated. The Tesla interface is futuristic, far superior and highly updateable.
"Set the temperature to 70". "Turn the fan up." "My butt is cold." "Play Paul Butterfield." "Set volume to 10."
Perhaps try "Beam me up Scotty" or "Eject passender seat."

Having said all this, these cars are not for everyone. I tell people that all the time.

It is not in front of the driver, it is a BAD design.
These are all distractions!

As for Lexus and buttons, Japanese manufacturers are not driver-focused. Then Toyota decided to offer vehicles to compete with Europeans but kept the same mindset. I drove the Sienna minivan for 4 years, and still did not get accustomed to fewer buttons than the typical Lexus. Buttons are all over the place, not making any sense.

 

[edyvw]

So that model in the lineup is weak and they should have only shipped it with the 20K brake option. Bad on Tesla. Thing is this fixes the problem so what's left to whine about but the original decision?

That 3rd party data on the rest of the lineup (the cars that way more poeple are going to buy sold on much higher volumes) shows that on the whole the Teslas outbrake that Porsches and the BMW's. Good on Tesla.

You have to give to Ceasar what is Caesars.

BMW brakes also catch on fire, what kind of amateur hour company makes a car this slow that still has brakes that catch on fire?
I guess you should send BMW your minivan to learn from. This wasnt even on a track and they were doing the same thing -repeated panic stops.
I guess we need to dismiss every model as not being up to par because of this test right? That what you are saying.





Im not sure I agree with the Bikini analogy. It sounds like an excuse to not come up with comparative data, or acknowledge it when its present.

It is amateur hour for BMW too. They offered the same brakes on 330e as on 330i, but have more weight. And they offered it with pads that keep wheels clean for neighbors.
But it is interesting you compare fuel-saving vehicles with Plaid, a uber, super vehicle from Tesla. Though, 330e still comes with suspension that can handle high speeds.

The bikini analogy is correct. You obviously do not understand brake performance and what actually matters. If you lose your way to track, try it yourself.

 

[Astro14]

OK. that’s enough. The points have been made. Another Tesla vs. World Thread. Got it. Another dead horse being beaten. Lock time.