I have been pondering switching to Synthetic oil on my PWC but wanted a informed opinion as to the benefits of going to Synthetic. I have been lucky I guess as I have never experienced a seize on any of my pwc and they are all highly modified. All have been ran at 44:1 ratio. Just looking to see if I will gain anything by going to Synthetic or should I just stick with what works. My current Kawi SXR is turning 7500 rpms. I could care less about buying brand name unless it truely offered tangible results to merrit the cost associated with the designer oils. Thanks
Synthetic vs. Dino
- Thread starter Ragged Edge Racing
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If your happy with the oil your using, mix it richer. With mod engine that are making long hard pulls, put as much oil as you can through it. 44 is not enough, synthetic is no substitute for ratio.
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So I will take it that switching to Synthetic will not provide any performance enhancements then? It won't make it turn more rpm's?? Just asking as many have tried to get me to switch but no data has ever been provided to substantiate the claims. I have sent numerous emails to Amsoil asking what gains I might get and have yet to receive a response.
A totally non-scientificit and non-documented case:
Fellow and neighbor had idential PWCs. Neighbor put in a couple of hundred bucks of upgrades, so he could go faster.
Fellow put in AMSOIL and beat the neighbor.
Neighbor switched.
For many years, there have been a whole lot of racers using AMSOIL. They won't tell anyone else, because it's their secret. Data? Nope. You could always ask Bobby Unser if you see him.
Data? Nope. Try it.
Fellow and neighbor had idential PWCs. Neighbor put in a couple of hundred bucks of upgrades, so he could go faster.
Fellow put in AMSOIL and beat the neighbor.
Neighbor switched.
For many years, there have been a whole lot of racers using AMSOIL. They won't tell anyone else, because it's their secret. Data? Nope. You could always ask Bobby Unser if you see him.
Data? Nope. Try it.
I find this odd. What kind of questions were you asking? Anyhow - I'd be willing to give it a go. If you are running 44:1 you could easily run 50:1. Depending on which oil you choose, saying 44 is "not enough" is interesting advice.
Amsoil 2-stroke Oils
Again depending on oil choice: The benefits range from cleaner burning and great high performance/hi high RPM protection to rust prevention. Better start-up first time of the season, to lower smoke. I think the best benefit from any of the 4 is way lower hard carbon deposits, and thus lower wear.
Gimme a break Pablo, the guys running mod watercraft that he says is turning 7500 rpm, not a weed wacker. Ratio is totally related to operating rpms, which is related to migration time of the oil through the case. The higher the rpms the more oil is needed to lubricate at the same level as an engine that runs at lower rpm. Also the length of the pull can dictate more oil. Running short pulls may get away with 50:1. Most people sit on those thing and hold em wide open, races can be out around an island and back, thus long pulls. Modified also often includes on the edge jetting that heats the piston to near seizure temps on long runs, and gets hotter and hotter and hotter the longer the pull. Often the difference between squeeking it or not is only the oils film. My experience is being synthetic is no substitute for MORE oil at this critical time. Maybe MORE synthetic? but more trumps syn any day in these conditions, even if its amsoil. You also have roller bearings in the bottom end that are carrying high hp to surface area and trying to stay lubed with a 2% gas/oil mix. Crank life is short on these dudes, maybe 100-200 hrs being run hard modified. Same bearing configuration in a 4 stroke engine with 100% oil splash lubed can last the life of the motor. So any more oil you can give it can translate into better crank life also. As everyone worrys about smoke and carbon, and pipe drool etc, they totally ignore whats happening in the bottom end. Again, these crank bearing don't really care if the oil is synthetic or not, at 2% fuel/oil they are happy getting anything they can, and more is better. Sorry for the rant, peace out.
Here are a couple of guys you can ask.
“All the AMSOIL products are
awesome. The AMSOIL 2-Cycle
Oil lubricates extremely well. In
the last 20 years of building and
maintaining engines, I have not
seen an oil that reduces wear and
carbon build-up like your 2-Cycle
Oil. I am very impressed.”
- Joe Gregorek
Personal Watercraft Racer
Joe Gregorek
Personal Watercraft Racer
Austin, TX
Sponsoring AMSOIL Direct Jobber: Dave and Carol Bell
Dear AMSOIL,
Thank you for accepting me as part of the AMSOIL Race Team. All the AMSOIL products are awesome. The Series 2000 2-Cycle Racing Oil lubricates extremely well.
In the last 20 years of building and maintaining engines, I have not seen an oil that reduces wear and carbon build-up like your racing oil. I am very impressed. I have not had an engine failure this year which has allowed me to dominate my class.
Thanks Again,
Joe Gregorek
2001 Results
1st Place: Expert 785 LTD. Runabout (Region 5 - TX)
1st Place: Expert 1200 LTD. Runabout (Region 5 - TX)
1st Place: Pro-Am 1200 SS Endurance State Champ (Texas)
1st Place: Overall Ironman Champion (Texas)
World Finals/ Havasu
4th Place: 785 Slalom
5th Place: 1200 Slalom
12th Place: overall 785
Here's another guy:
AMSOIL Preferred Customer Mark Tweedale, Neenah, Wis., learned about the quality and cost savings he can depend on with AMSOIL Series 2000 2-Cycle Synthetic Racing Oil after a hard lesson using Pennzoil-Quaker State oil in his watercrafts.
The watercrafts are stock Kawasaki Ultra 150s, bought new in 1999 and 2000. They have a triple cylinder 1200cc motor that puts out 145 horsepower with a top radar speed of 65 mph.
"They are Kawasaki's top of the line muscle crafts," Tweedale said.
The machines use a race spark plug that costs "a whopping $15 each," Tweedale said. "I began fouling plugs almost immediately into their use."
In fact, he fouled out 30 plugs in the first year. He took the watercrafts back to the dealer to try to identify the source of the problem. "The dealer found nothing mechanically wrong with my watercrafts," Tweedale said. The dealer told Tweedale none of his other Ultras had experienced this plug fouling problem.
Tweedale began to suspect his oil and he contacted Pennzoil-Quaker State about the problem, explained the expense of the plugs and that the machines were mechanically sound. "I asked them for help and possible reimbursement for my plugs," Tweedale said.
Pennzoil-Quaker State sent a letter requesting Tweedale send in some of his oil for analysis. After the oil had been analyzed, Tweedale received a letter from the oil company stating that, while the oil's additives showed signs of breakdown from aging, it was not to the extent that it would foul plugs in his watercraft. "They offered me no reimbursement toward my plug expense," Tweedale said. They did offer him a gallon of their synthetic oil.
While talking with coworkers, he discovered Gary Yashinsky, an AMSOIL Preferred Customer in Green Bay, Wis. Yashinsky "had only positive things to say about AMSOIL," Tweedale said. "He truly went the extra mile to help me solve my problem and also to promote AMSOIL."
Tweedale was convinced. He had the Series 2000 Racing Oil installed in the watercraft early in the spring of 2002.
"I went the entire summer with no fouled plugs in either watercraft," Tweedale said. "Unbelievable. What a difference oil can make."
He became a Preferred Customer and does everything he can to promote AMSOIL products to his friends and coworkers. "I will be an AMSOIL Preferred Customer forever," he said. "Thank you AMSOIL for putting out a quality product which in turn solved this problem for me."
He does most of his watercrafting in Lake Superior, the world's largest freshwater lake. Generally, Tweedale starts his trips on the big lake at Munising Bay. He plans this summer to complete a ride started last year with his friend Todd Olson of Gwinn, Mich., that traverses the shoreline along the entire Upper Peninsula. "We completed half of it last summer and simply ran out of nice weather," he said. "It's one cold lake and can get downright violent at times. That's what makes it a challenge."
This year, the trip takes them from Little Girls Point north of Ironwood, Mich., around the peninsula and back to Houghton; the final leg covering the distance from Grand Marais to Sault Ste. Marie.
When their journey is over this year, the two—along with Olson's wife, Gina Olson, and Tweedale's fiance, Kristi Krajewski, who will join them at different stages along the coast—will cover nearly 400 miles. That's in addition to a nearly 200-mile trip last year. They plan the trip in stages because the lake takes its toll on their bodies.
"We move on as soon as our bodies and muscles recover from the pounding of the first (stage)," he said. "We tend to get beat up a little bit out there on (Lake) Superior. North winds are bad."
Austin, TX
“All the AMSOIL products are
awesome. The AMSOIL 2-Cycle
Oil lubricates extremely well. In
the last 20 years of building and
maintaining engines, I have not
seen an oil that reduces wear and
carbon build-up like your 2-Cycle
Oil. I am very impressed.”
- Joe Gregorek
Personal Watercraft Racer
Joe Gregorek
Personal Watercraft Racer
Austin, TX
Sponsoring AMSOIL Direct Jobber: Dave and Carol Bell
Dear AMSOIL,
Thank you for accepting me as part of the AMSOIL Race Team. All the AMSOIL products are awesome. The Series 2000 2-Cycle Racing Oil lubricates extremely well.
In the last 20 years of building and maintaining engines, I have not seen an oil that reduces wear and carbon build-up like your racing oil. I am very impressed. I have not had an engine failure this year which has allowed me to dominate my class.
Thanks Again,
Joe Gregorek
2001 Results
1st Place: Expert 785 LTD. Runabout (Region 5 - TX)
1st Place: Expert 1200 LTD. Runabout (Region 5 - TX)
1st Place: Pro-Am 1200 SS Endurance State Champ (Texas)
1st Place: Overall Ironman Champion (Texas)
World Finals/ Havasu
4th Place: 785 Slalom
5th Place: 1200 Slalom
12th Place: overall 785
Here's another guy:
AMSOIL Preferred Customer Mark Tweedale, Neenah, Wis., learned about the quality and cost savings he can depend on with AMSOIL Series 2000 2-Cycle Synthetic Racing Oil after a hard lesson using Pennzoil-Quaker State oil in his watercrafts.
The watercrafts are stock Kawasaki Ultra 150s, bought new in 1999 and 2000. They have a triple cylinder 1200cc motor that puts out 145 horsepower with a top radar speed of 65 mph.
"They are Kawasaki's top of the line muscle crafts," Tweedale said.
The machines use a race spark plug that costs "a whopping $15 each," Tweedale said. "I began fouling plugs almost immediately into their use."
In fact, he fouled out 30 plugs in the first year. He took the watercrafts back to the dealer to try to identify the source of the problem. "The dealer found nothing mechanically wrong with my watercrafts," Tweedale said. The dealer told Tweedale none of his other Ultras had experienced this plug fouling problem.
Tweedale began to suspect his oil and he contacted Pennzoil-Quaker State about the problem, explained the expense of the plugs and that the machines were mechanically sound. "I asked them for help and possible reimbursement for my plugs," Tweedale said.
Pennzoil-Quaker State sent a letter requesting Tweedale send in some of his oil for analysis. After the oil had been analyzed, Tweedale received a letter from the oil company stating that, while the oil's additives showed signs of breakdown from aging, it was not to the extent that it would foul plugs in his watercraft. "They offered me no reimbursement toward my plug expense," Tweedale said. They did offer him a gallon of their synthetic oil.
While talking with coworkers, he discovered Gary Yashinsky, an AMSOIL Preferred Customer in Green Bay, Wis. Yashinsky "had only positive things to say about AMSOIL," Tweedale said. "He truly went the extra mile to help me solve my problem and also to promote AMSOIL."
Tweedale was convinced. He had the Series 2000 Racing Oil installed in the watercraft early in the spring of 2002.
"I went the entire summer with no fouled plugs in either watercraft," Tweedale said. "Unbelievable. What a difference oil can make."
He became a Preferred Customer and does everything he can to promote AMSOIL products to his friends and coworkers. "I will be an AMSOIL Preferred Customer forever," he said. "Thank you AMSOIL for putting out a quality product which in turn solved this problem for me."
He does most of his watercrafting in Lake Superior, the world's largest freshwater lake. Generally, Tweedale starts his trips on the big lake at Munising Bay. He plans this summer to complete a ride started last year with his friend Todd Olson of Gwinn, Mich., that traverses the shoreline along the entire Upper Peninsula. "We completed half of it last summer and simply ran out of nice weather," he said. "It's one cold lake and can get downright violent at times. That's what makes it a challenge."
This year, the trip takes them from Little Girls Point north of Ironwood, Mich., around the peninsula and back to Houghton; the final leg covering the distance from Grand Marais to Sault Ste. Marie.
When their journey is over this year, the two—along with Olson's wife, Gina Olson, and Tweedale's fiance, Kristi Krajewski, who will join them at different stages along the coast—will cover nearly 400 miles. That's in addition to a nearly 200-mile trip last year. They plan the trip in stages because the lake takes its toll on their bodies.
"We move on as soon as our bodies and muscles recover from the pounding of the first (stage)," he said. "We tend to get beat up a little bit out there on (Lake) Superior. North winds are bad."
Austin, TX
I'll give you a break by forgiving you for bringing up "a weed wacker". (Because I'm not sure I mentioned one in this thread)
Anyhow - 7500 is high, but not 14,000 rpm high. The loads are high, stresses great - but the temperatures are not extreme and a good oil designed to go 50:1 will work. With Dominator, I see no issue going to 40:1 or even 35:1, but it's not absolutely necessary.
Guys,it certainly appears the one of the racers is sponsored by Amsoil so I will exclude his opinion. Again, what are the benefits if any using synthetic over dino? And just so I understand this a little better, how does the oil breakdown in a two stroke if it is constantly being fed fresh oil unlike a 4 stroke. Mine is a two stroke btw. As for it being cleaner, or less smoke or starting better, that is subjective. Some like the smell of it and buy it because of that alone. I don't care. If one does not out perform another, I will stick with what I use. And Pable, I sent a email directly to the Amsoil contact on the website many times. I asked whoever to come join a debate over on pwctoday.com about oil.
I have a 1997 kawai ZXI 1100 with a mild modded engine and since 1999 I have used Amsoil Saber outboard 100:1 and Amsoil Interceptor at 50:1, the 100:1 mix runs about 3mph faster and better aceleration than the 50:1 mix Interceptor.
I ran out of 100:1 and used Interceptor and found it was not as crisp as Saber 100:1
most of the years I have used 100:1 mix and my ski runs great at 7100 rpm as long as my body can take it or as long I can stay on top of the ski.
I have also inspected the engine once 5 years ago after I overheated it due to hoses popping off and the cylinders were perfect, original cylinders, pistons, and rings.
It has worked for me just fine and my freinds use 100:1 also and enjoy the same benefits...
Laz, this is what the normal responses are on the other forums. It works for me...Maybe other ouil would work for you too?? Not bashing you. As for your claims of 3mph differences just by switching oil, very hard to believe. Is this based off the dream-o-meter or a GPS? I would doubt that Amsoil would ever make any claims about increasing speeds. If it were true, everyone would jump on the band wagon. Again, I just want somone that actually knows something about oil itself comment on the pro's and con's of each type.
Not sure if this means anything but. Rebuilt many rotax seadoo and skidoo motors that were run with dealer bought Bombardier mineral and synthetic oils. Even models that mandated syn and were run on mineral. No difference in topend wear or crank life. Some difference in carbon and deposits. Bombi's syn is Diester and Polyol Ester based and is a very high end oil (made by Castrol to bombi's spec). I'd put it up there or beyond any amsoil on quality of ingrediants alone. How the two worked in the field? what you hear are things about smell and smoke and price. Nobody claims mph or hp. If you want an oil with big claims try some Blue Marble.
I recently used interceptor @50:1 in my ski," I ran out of Saber 100:1" and my ski ran as usual, so I thought, the next week put it in the same place and refilled with saber 100:1 and it was noticiably better, you know though you could be right, the week before I added to 10 month old gas and ran it out of the ski. so maybe the hyped 3mph was my mistake.
maybe it was the old gas+50:1+who knows what else, too many varibles. so you could say I was full of beeswax
These guy$ are $pon$ered or $ell Am$oil. Tim what do you expect then to $ay.
Whats up ragged(this is gainera2582 from pwctoday and the x)
Now guys, since he is running a reed motor(no gas powervalves), which would be the better oil choice?
For example, say he was using pennzoil premium plus in his kawi sxr for season upon season and wanted to switch to pennzoil 100% synthetic. What benefits are there to the full 100% synthetic over the premium plus?(Please list expereinces and not speculations).
Another thing I question is oil ratio. Say a machine is recommended at 50:1 premix. Why do people go richer than needed?
Thanks,
Aaron
Now guys, since he is running a reed motor(no gas powervalves), which would be the better oil choice?
For example, say he was using pennzoil premium plus in his kawi sxr for season upon season and wanted to switch to pennzoil 100% synthetic. What benefits are there to the full 100% synthetic over the premium plus?(Please list expereinces and not speculations).
Another thing I question is oil ratio. Say a machine is recommended at 50:1 premix. Why do people go richer than needed?
Thanks,
Aaron
Amazing isn't it...Even on a oil forum, no one can clearly state a good reason why to make the switch. You surprised Gainer???
Im not surprised to be honest. In reality, I think most 2 stroke oil is all twc3 anyway and very little ester or pao. Unless you can get it cheap by the gallon(which pennzoil synthetic at oil dash store dot com is 80 bucks for 4 gallons), I don't think it will last much longer than say regular pennzoil synthetic blend.
Only thing I do know is that majority of people who have used the pennzoil 100% synthetic 2 stroke oil claim less deposits compared to the regular premium plus stuff. Is it worth 10 bucks more? That is the question you have to ask yourself!
Just make sure w/e you get is twc3 certified(any big name brand like pennzoil, quaker state, yamalube, kawichem, mobil, shell) and not just twc3 rated(amsoil, etc...).
Only thing I do know is that majority of people who have used the pennzoil 100% synthetic 2 stroke oil claim less deposits compared to the regular premium plus stuff. Is it worth 10 bucks more? That is the question you have to ask yourself!
Just make sure w/e you get is twc3 certified(any big name brand like pennzoil, quaker state, yamalube, kawichem, mobil, shell) and not just twc3 rated(amsoil, etc...).
Why?
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