I'm a new member here and need a little help understanding synthetic oils. What is the difference between POA, type 1, type 2, type 3, type 4 oils. I just got a new Acura TL and once broken in I plan on using fully synthetic oil. My preference (based solely on availability) is Mobil 1. Any help is appreciated. Thanks. Steve
Synthetic Oil Types?
- Thread starter cristphoto
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M1 is a legitimate Group 4 synthetic. Can't go wrong with this oil. Most other so-called syns are Group 3 make believes.
Good luck!
Good luck!
William Howes was aksed this same question and I think did an excellent job of answering.
"OK youve asked the question of the century. All the marketing hype in the media has everyone wondering what to do.
First if you have a brand new engine, run the current installed oil for at least 3000 to 4000 miles. This will "Set" your engine components. (Not! break in, bad word)Currently in the petroleum business there are different groups of oils I, II, III, IV, V, VI. Group I is old hat, stuff used in the 50's and back. They are not really avilable anymore to the general public. Group II is still around but being replaced by III and IV. What all this stuff means is that The currently available "Premium motor oils" are at least group III "Highly refined". These are last years media promoted "Synthetics". They are still petroleum products, but are so highly refined that they protect your engine to a point that unless you need "Extended Drain" (15,000 miles or more between oil changes, WITH OIL ANALYSIS!) you are fine useing them. Groups IV and up are "True" synthetics. Manufactured from all kinds of Hydrocarbon molecules that I won't go into. The reason for these "New" products is mainly the requirement of major fleets that want extended drain intervals utilizing oil analysis programs. Some of our (Texaco) products have actually gone 1 Million miles with proper maintenance. You don't need that. So, rathter than buy a Full synthetic at around 20.00 per gallon and changing it out in 3000 miles. Use a premium grade of oil (Major Brand Name) and follow the usual drain interval recommended by your engine manufacturer.
As to protection of your engine, with the type of driving and drain interval you probably follow. The added protection of longterm Anti-Oxidation, Extreme low temperature, extended drain characteristics of the group IV and up is not needed. The protection af a major branded oil should be fine for your new engine. If you do use a full synthetic, remember, change your OIL FILTER at the recommended mileage, top off your oil when you do, run at least on full oil change of Synthetic thru your engine as a flush to get out the old oil, "Set" your engine first by putting at least 3000 miles on it. I recommend Texaco Havoline or Mobil I "Full Synthetics". Do not use a "Semi-Synthetic" just a waste of money.
Hope this helps.
By the way, I sell this stuff and I don't use a full synthetic. "
"OK youve asked the question of the century. All the marketing hype in the media has everyone wondering what to do.
First if you have a brand new engine, run the current installed oil for at least 3000 to 4000 miles. This will "Set" your engine components. (Not! break in, bad word)Currently in the petroleum business there are different groups of oils I, II, III, IV, V, VI. Group I is old hat, stuff used in the 50's and back. They are not really avilable anymore to the general public. Group II is still around but being replaced by III and IV. What all this stuff means is that The currently available "Premium motor oils" are at least group III "Highly refined". These are last years media promoted "Synthetics". They are still petroleum products, but are so highly refined that they protect your engine to a point that unless you need "Extended Drain" (15,000 miles or more between oil changes, WITH OIL ANALYSIS!) you are fine useing them. Groups IV and up are "True" synthetics. Manufactured from all kinds of Hydrocarbon molecules that I won't go into. The reason for these "New" products is mainly the requirement of major fleets that want extended drain intervals utilizing oil analysis programs. Some of our (Texaco) products have actually gone 1 Million miles with proper maintenance. You don't need that. So, rathter than buy a Full synthetic at around 20.00 per gallon and changing it out in 3000 miles. Use a premium grade of oil (Major Brand Name) and follow the usual drain interval recommended by your engine manufacturer.
As to protection of your engine, with the type of driving and drain interval you probably follow. The added protection of longterm Anti-Oxidation, Extreme low temperature, extended drain characteristics of the group IV and up is not needed. The protection af a major branded oil should be fine for your new engine. If you do use a full synthetic, remember, change your OIL FILTER at the recommended mileage, top off your oil when you do, run at least on full oil change of Synthetic thru your engine as a flush to get out the old oil, "Set" your engine first by putting at least 3000 miles on it. I recommend Texaco Havoline or Mobil I "Full Synthetics". Do not use a "Semi-Synthetic" just a waste of money.
Hope this helps.
By the way, I sell this stuff and I don't use a full synthetic. "
Group I base stocks were still in general use up through 2001+. We're finally in an era in which the common base stock blends in most motor oils are at least Group II/Group II+ or Group II/Group III mixes. Pure Group III base oils perform very closely under testing to what is achieved with Group IV base oils, the naysayers' knee-jerk protestations notwithstanding. European formulators were using Group III base stocks (solvent refined, no less according to Chevron Oil Co. several years before their inclusion was instituted in the U.S. U.S. processes had the advantage of an even purer resulting Group III base oil resulting from the actual molecular reforming of undesirable molecules into desired configured and hydrocarbon chain length lube molecules through catalytically-driven "hydrotreating" in the presense of intense heat and hydrogen under intense pressure from the getgo: "isomerization" - a recognized form of synthesis - again notwithstanding the naysayers' inevitable and logic-defying knee-jerk protestations. Not sure how to recognize 'em? Don't worry, they'll jump on this post with a fury that would make a psycho blush.
You bet. Look at the post of "synthetics" Feb 2005. Bogus? I dont think so.
http://experts.about.com/q/Oil-Gas-3147/indexExp_60475.htm
When we start running straight basestock in our engines I'll be more worried about its "group". For now I'll stick with fully formulated engine oil.
"Do not use a "Semi-Synthetic" just a waste of money"
Funny that, one of the most highly experienced Members, Dr. Hass, swears that semi synthetics are best.
Funny that, one of the most highly experienced Members, Dr. Hass, swears that semi synthetics are best.
WRONG GP1 still the widely available. ALL 150 bright stock is GPI also still used in straight wt PCMO and HDED not 100% but a portion so not rare or unseen by any stretch.
Also used in Gear oils, high vis oils all loss chain oils and greases etc.
bruce
Also used in Gear oils, high vis oils all loss chain oils and greases etc.
bruce
Best for what?
Look folks. I'm not gonna argue/debate one way or the other. Grp1 is used in lots of things today. I dont think that is the point. It is offered only as a post speaking to what are the various groups of oils. Not a single post to end all.
Mr. Howe's comment regarding Synthetic Blends pretty much discredits him as far as I'm concerned. I also noted that most of his experience was concentrated in industrial lubrication, not PCMO or HDMO lubrication.
For example, he said in another of his answers that most synthetic "blends" today are highly refined GroupIII mineral oils and not PAO/Ester base stocks. Is he aware that many full "synthetics" today are also GroupIII mineral oils, not PAO/Ester based? (e.g. Castrol) Good semi-syns like Motorcraft and Phillips TropArtic are without question some of the best values on the market today and are frequently priced below regular GII and GII+ dinos (such as Valvoline and Pennzoil, both good conventional oils) and have outstanding product and performance characteristics, better than most dinos at lower cost, perhaps Havoline being the exception, and an outstanding oil in its own right.
I'll happily continue paying $1.48 for my TA 5w30 syn and about $1.90 for my MC 5W-20 syn blend!
Did the ref link help with your question? I see we went off in another direction and seemed forget all about your question. I thought this post explained the various groups in layman terms quite well. The other stuff is irrelevant to me.
Well if this guy is an expert, he sure is loose with his information.
Coral, just so you understand, this is why I used the term "bogus":
Coral, just so you understand, this is why I used the term "bogus":
Actually Grp I base oils were commonly used in PCMO's clear thru the GF-2 to GF-3 transition in 2001. Certain grades of Valvoline contained Grp I thru 2004, due to the partnership with Marathon and the Grp I refinery in Kentucky. Citgo still uses some Grp I in the GF-4 oils per their MSDS.
Grp II will be a mainstay of the US lubricants market thru 2009 and the new GF-5 spec. At that time the attention will be focused not on more Grp III & IV, but on the new synthetic base oils produced thru the Gas-To-Liquid technology.
Again not true. The major brands, Pennzoil, Havoline, Castrol, Mobil, etc. are using Grp II+ products for the 5W oils spec'd for new vehicles. ConocoPhillips has a unique source for low cost Grp III and produces a Grp II/III blend.
Here's a link to an Amsoil dealer website that has a good basic description of the API Base Oil Categories.
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/baseoilcategories.htm
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/baseoilcategories.htm
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