synthetic oil groups?????

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jduramax

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well i'm sure that this question has come up many times, and if so, i apologize for asking. but what the heck is the difference between group 3 and group 4 or 5 synthetic oils? a friend of mine uses nothing but amsoil products in his truck. good choice, by the way. but i have been using rotella products in mine since new. he says that rotella is not a true synthetic, whatever that means, and that i should change to amsoil before i damage my engine. my Dmax is an 02' and i've had it since new. always used rotella products in it. still works great. can someone out there that is much smarter than me or my friend(not hard to find) shed some light on this?? much appreciated.
I love this site, by the way. great info.........
 
In a nutshell, these are base oil types:

Group III - severely processed/hydrotreated petroleum oil
Group IV - polyalphaolefin
Group V - esters , other

And in a nutshell Rotella won't hurt your engine. Sheesh. Is he a dealer?
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
In a nutshell, these are base oil types:

Group III - severely processed/hydrotreated petroleum oil
Group IV - polyalphaolefin
Group V - esters , other

And in a nutshell Rotella won't hurt your engine. Sheesh. Is he a dealer?
thanks for the info. and no, he's not a dealer, but maybe he should be.......
 
Originally Posted By: jduramax
Originally Posted By: Pablo
In a nutshell, these are base oil types:

Group III - severely processed/hydrotreated petroleum oil
Group IV - polyalphaolefin
Group V - esters , other

And in a nutshell Rotella won't hurt your engine. Sheesh. Is he a dealer?
thanks for the info. and no, he's not a dealer, but maybe he should be.......


No he should not.
29.gif


With telling lies like he already has told you, the LAST thing Amsoil needs is someone like him for a dealer.

They already have enough "helpful" people like him.
smirk2.gif


I just wish all the Amsoil folks were like Pablo and Gary...
thankyou2.gif


Take care, Bill
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PS:
welcome2.gif
 
More dealers should be like OUR Pablo.
grin2.gif


I might add the following:

Group III - comes from crude oil
Group IV - polyalphaolefin comes from crude oil
Group V - ester can come from crude oil and plants.
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny

Group IV - polyalphaolefin comes from crude oil


Group IV is not cleaned up and processed liquid crude oil like II and III. The feedstock for IV is a gas (~ethylene) (which may be derived from many sources, including being separated from crude during distillation or obtained elsewhere). Group II and III are made in a refinery. Group IV is NOT made in a refinery - but rather a chemical plant.
 
Originally Posted By: OilGuy
Originally Posted By: Johnny

Group IV - polyalphaolefin comes from crude oil


Group IV is not cleaned up and processed liquid crude oil like II and III. The feedstock for IV is a gas (~ethylene) (which may be derived from many sources, including being separated from crude during distillation or obtained elsewhere). Group II and III are made in a refinery. Group IV is NOT made in a refinery - but rather a chemical plant.


The largest portion of ethylene comes from crude oil during the distillation process. Contact Mobil and ask them. And I don't care where it is made,
"refinery or chemical lab" it still is derived from crude oil out of the ground.

The end result is to get the molecular chains in the base stocks as close to the same as possible and to get rid of all of the impurities. I'm just sorry it took them over 50 years to figure out another way to do it. "Thank you Chevron"
 
Sounds reasonable to me. The marketing problem is when someone says "PAO's are made from crude" - (I have no problem with it) - however seems like some people will always think it's just the next cleaning step from Group III. I have actually read some posters here write the same thing, ie "Group IV is not synthesized, it's just ultra refined" - Sorry, Mr. Norris, you are incorrect!
whistle.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Johnny
Originally Posted By: OilGuy
Originally Posted By: Johnny

Group IV - polyalphaolefin comes from crude oil


Group IV is not cleaned up and processed liquid crude oil like II and III. The feedstock for IV is a gas (~ethylene) (which may be derived from many sources, including being separated from crude during distillation or obtained elsewhere). Group II and III are made in a refinery. Group IV is NOT made in a refinery - but rather a chemical plant.


The largest portion of ethylene comes from crude oil during the distillation process. Contact Mobil and ask them. And I don't care where it is made,
"refinery or chemical lab" it still is derived from crude oil out of the ground.

The end result is to get the molecular chains in the base stocks as close to the same as possible and to get rid of all of the impurities. I'm just sorry it took them over 50 years to figure out another way to do it. "Thank you Chevron"


Johnny a quick question?

Does it take more resources and energy to produce a syn oil over conventional?

Also, is Syn made from imported oils like conventional?

Thanks, bill
 
Bill, I don't know about the resources and energy to produce, but if they get the ethylene from the distillation process, yes, it comes from imported oil. They pull the gasses off just before they start pulling off the light ends for gasoline.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Sounds reasonable to me. The marketing problem is when someone says "PAO's are made from crude" - (I have no problem with it) - however seems like some people will always think it's just the next cleaning step from Group III. I have actually read some posters here write the same thing, ie "Group IV is not synthesized, it's just ultra refined" - Sorry, Mr. Norris, you are incorrect!
whistle.gif



Actually getting the ethylene is the first step in getting the product to make PAO "in a chemical lab", then the light ends for gasoline, then some heaver stocks for making kerosene, jet fuel, diesel, then the heaver stocks that base stocks oil is made from, and lastly what's left for making things like asphalt.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Johnny
Bill, I don't know about the resources and energy to produce, but if they get the ethylene from the distillation process, yes, it comes from imported oil. They pull the gasses off just before they start pulling off the light ends for gasoline.


Thanks!

I just wanted to know because some members think that using Syn that they are not using ANY imported oils.

I'd think that there would have to be more energy to get the syn off.

Thanks again for the QUICK reply!

Bill
 
I don't think it takes more energy to get the syn off since getting the ethylene gasses off is one of the first processes in distillation. Probably takes more energy to get to the base stock portion.
 
Sort of off topic, but I know a lot of folks that like to take tours of breweries . I would recommend anyone that is interested in oils take a tour of a modern day refinery. It's really very interesting, everything that goes in to making lubricants.
 
Good link, thanks.

Quote:
We work closely with all the major
vehicle manufacturers, even at
their engine design phase, to make
sure our lubricants work as an
integral operational component.
 
If I didn't have such good results with Delo I would be using Schaeffer's or Delvac. All three are fantastic.
 
wow, i didn't realize the conversation i would start with my question. thanks to evryone for good input. thats why i like this site. there is certainly more to lubricants than meets the eye!! cheers!
 
[/quote]
That is a very well written history and advertising piece. They should use it more often. Thanks for sharing. [/quote]

i agree and thx again
 
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