Synthetic better suited for DI engines?

[dishdude]

I have a 2011 GMC Terrain on order, and looking through the owner's manual it requires Dexos1 like all other 2011 GM vehicles. I was planning on just using YB like I do on all my other vehicles, however only PP is Dexos1 certified.

So am I better off making the plunge over to synthetic considering this is a DI engine anyway? Will synthetic withstand the potential fuel dilution issues that DI engines have?

The other odd thing I noticed in the manual, if you aren't using top tier fuel, they suggest using AC Delco fuel system cleaner at every oil change.

 

[Scienceman]

For warrenty reasons: yes
Would Pennzoil Yellow Bottle be fine? yes.
After the warrenty ends, use what you want.
Of course it will reccomend GM brand cleaner..they gotta make money!

 

[dparm]

There are particular synthetics that seem to handle fuel dilution better than others. Schaeffer's & Renewable Lubricants seem to do well.

 

[LS2JSTS]

To the OP. I'm currently maintaining two different GM DI engines. IMO, and I'm no expert, the big issues with DI are fuel dilution and volatility. In both those cases a synthetic based oil will generally have a better NOACK volatility rating and be more resistent to fuel dilution than the typical Group II conventional based oil. From what I can tell the Dexos1 spec is partially aimed at reducing the NOACK volatility to a level below 13%, a figure that the majority of conventional oils currently cant meet. While many of the better Group III+ oils can beat it, by a wide margin in many cases.

 

[Bill in Utah]

I sure hope that people are not going to post in this thread to BASH GM. That would not be very wise.

I'm sure that we will assist the soon owner to be with some FACTUAL OIL info.

Bill

 

[HangerHarley]

Originally Posted By: dparm
There are particular synthetics that seem to handle fuel dilution better than others. Schaeffer's & Renewable Lubricants seem to do well.


RLI seems to be the best one if all other attempts to offset fuel dilution (which seems rampant in DI engines, they say wear is "Crazy stupid" on them, id believe it) fail.

dparm.. Your Audi is NOT a DI engine, right? (FSI, i believe yours would be called?)

That said, DI engines are so new, i dont see how conventional is Factory Fill!

Bill, any Conventional wisdom about if Conventional is holding up well if Fuel Dilution is happening in an engine, any engine?

 

[Bill in Utah]

Conventional in normal motors does just fine. If you have a fuel issue then I'd recommend fixing the problem and changing more often no matter what type of oil you use.

Some Honda's have fuel issues and they seem to last just fine with conventional oils.

As far as DI motors, personally I'll stay away from them as long as I can. I don't think they fix as many problems as they cause (just my opinion)

I'm a keep it simple as possible type of person...

Bill

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah


As far as DI motors, personally I'll stay away from them as long as I can. I don't think they fix as many problems as they cause (just my opinion)

I'm a keep it simple as possible type of person...

Bill


i agree, DI has some issues to be worked out. I think it will be worked out, it may take some time and better engineering. I will not be looking at any DI engines for a while. Heck i won't even buy a car with awd, i prefer the kiss principle.
If i had a DI engine i would run an sn oil perhaps pennzoil ultra to keep down the intake valve deposits.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
I sure hope that people are not going to post in this thread to BASH GM. That would not be very wise.

I'm sure that we will assist the soon owner to be with some FACTUAL OIL info.

Bill
This seemed like a great opportunity

 

[RamAir5]

We own a 2009 Traverse with the 3.6 DI engine. I've been using plain QS green bottle 10w-30 since day 1 (we now have 24,000 miles on her). Runs very good, and is very quiet. I subscribe to the old school OCI of every 3k miles. I have heard these engines are hard on oil. I figured getting rid of it every 3k miles was better than leaving synthetic in for 6k+ miles. Anyway we are currently getting 19mpg around town and we hit 26mpg on our last over the road trip. Not bad for a 7 passenger family hauler. Luckily the '09 does not require the new DEX spec. Conventional 5w-30 was factory fill for my '09. As far as I know, the '09 and '11 engines are identical. I'm a little suspicious as to why conventional was ok for an '09 and '10 GM DI engine, and now all of a sudden it isn't. I decided to run 10w-30 because the NOAK numbers are a lot better than the 5w-30. The manual urges not to stray from the recommended viscosity, which I didn't. I still use the 30 weight oil, just in a 10w flavor instead of a 5w.

We haven't experienced any problems with our DI engine while using conventional oil.

What I'm getting at is use what you want and what feels right to you. All I can offer you is my experience with a GM DI engine.

Cheers...

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: HangerHarley
Originally Posted By: dparm
There are particular synthetics that seem to handle fuel dilution better than others. Schaeffer's & Renewable Lubricants seem to do well.


RLI seems to be the best one if all other attempts to offset fuel dilution (which seems rampant in DI engines, they say wear is "Crazy stupid" on them, id believe it) fail.

dparm.. Your Audi is NOT a DI engine, right? (FSI, i believe yours would be called?)

That said, DI engines are so new, i dont see how conventional is Factory Fill!

Bill, any Conventional wisdom about if Conventional is holding up well if Fuel Dilution is happening in an engine, any engine?



Audi calls direct inject "FSI" (fuel stratified injection). My car is not DI/FSI.

 

[bepperb]

Why buy new if you're just going to throw the warranty away? Of course you're better off with an oil that maintains the factory warranty, which it seems needs to be Dexos approved.

 

[CompSyn]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
I have a 2011 GMC Terrain on order, and looking through the owner's manual it requires Dexos1 like all other 2011 GM vehicles. I was planning on just using YB like I do on all my other vehicles, however only PP is Dexos1 certified.

So am I better off making the plunge over to synthetic considering this is a DI engine anyway? Will synthetic withstand the potential fuel dilution issues that DI engines have?

The other odd thing I noticed in the manual, if you aren't using top tier fuel, they suggest using AC Delco fuel system cleaner at every oil change.


GM dexos1 motor oil utilizes Group III base stocks. As you know, in the United States, a motor oil that is formulated predominately with Group III base stocks is marketed as a "Full Synthetic" motor oil.

Below are two of quotes from GM:

"dexos1 is approved and recommended by GM for use in all its vehicles, including all older vehicles. It is specified in the owner's manual for all 2011 and later model years, with the exception of Europe where dexos1 is specified starting in model year 2010."

"The use of engine oils other than dexos1 can result in: 1) damage of engine parts and hardware that are not covered under warranty and 2) lower levels of performance."

Cited: http://www.gmdexos.com/home.html

So in other words, all brand new GM vehicles come factory fill with "Full Synthetic" in them; no more conventional. Use of lesser oils may result in engine damage the company says.

 

[dkryan]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
I sure hope that people are not going to post in this thread to BASH GM. That would not be very wise.

I'm sure that we will assist the soon owner to be with some FACTUAL OIL info.

Bill


Now Bill, you're one of the last folks on BITOG that I believed would keep his finger on the trigger.

 

[dkryan]

I have to agree with LS2JSTS in that fuel dilution and deposits will be your two biggest problems.

Rather than change the oil at 3k miles, I'd suggest a quality synthetic for 6-7k, followed by a UOA after the second run of the same brand/viscosity to determine how your engine is performing in terms of fuel dilution.

 

[Finklejag]

Originally Posted By: RamAir5
We own a 2009 Traverse with the 3.6 DI engine. I've been using plain QS green bottle 10w-30 since day 1 (we now have 24,000 miles on her). Runs very good, and is very quiet.


You're not going to notice anything after 24K miles. When the car starts to get 50K + miles on it. That's when the intake valve deposits will affect the performance of the engine.

 

[Rickey]

dishdude:

I recently had a Blackstone analysis of the oil in my 2007 Pontiac Solstice GXP. This has a turbo 2.0 4 Cyl. Direct Injection engine.
The engine had about 32 K miles and the oil had a little over 5 K miles at the time the oil was sampled for the analysis. The analysis showed low wear metals and a trace of fuel dilution.
The oil used was Quaker State "Q Horsepower".
I believe that GM has their DI technology working nicely.
My opinion is that GM is in a different league compared to some other marque's that have IVD problems in the first few thousand miles.
They have quite a few DI engines on the road now, some for several years. IVD problems seem to be absent from their engines so far.
(knock on lucky object of choice)

As for fuel system cleaner I use a large bottle of Techron just before each oil change. Some will immediately say that this could not clean the intake valves on a DI engine...
Maybe so, but consider valve timing overlap along with variable valve timing and reversion. My LNF fires up each time with high idle and lots of valve overlap.
The given reason is catalyst light off. I speculate that some intake valve cleaning could be going on here as well.

Good luck with your new automobile Sir.

Rickey.