synth and seals

[GrampsintheSand]

Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
It's basically an oil. It's made up of 3 esters. It just has no other additives like zinc or moly, so it's more like an oil base stock before the AW additives are introduced.

Adding 4oz of pure PAO do your oil wouldn't be the same as using an additive, would it?

Basically? Are you sure it has no other additives? Absolutely none?

Would you be willing to fill your entire crankcase with it?

Would an auto manufacturer classify it as an additive? (yes they would).

If one uses a synthetic on a relatively new engine, there is absolutely no reason to use Auto-Rx.

You made a definitive statement that AUTORX would void a warranty. You are dead wrong per the Magnusson-Moss act. I provided you that info. So this discussion is silly. As for the OP. I doubt he would benefit from a full blown AUTORX clean/rinse but a maintenance dose will not void his warranty.
I have seen sludged engines with Mobil1 in them. Was it Mobil1's fault? Of course not. It was faulty PCV or ridiculous 25K OCI's (where did they get that silly idea I wonder?)...AUTORX will clean a "dirty" motor better than a synthetic motor oil.
I think what your crusading about is Mobil1 will keep a clean motor clean. That is fine. But don't tell people using any additive will automatically void their warranty because that is a flat untruth. Like saying if you put a Amsoil Air Filter in your new car the warranty is voided. Just not true.

 

[getnpsi]

Automakers don't want people to use additives, because that word is so broad. Whats an additive? Anything able to be poured down the fill cap. Pages and pages of discussion of what not to purchase on this forum. All of it is still sold on every retail shelf. Motor honey? STP? Lucas? Those don't hurt. If i was 3 quarts low in the desert halfway to vegas, and all i had was a quart of those products, I'm not towing the car. I'm going to use everything you guys make fun of, and make it home just fine! However, solvent stuff, still considered an additive, are stocked next to "safe" products. They're all same classification as far as the automaker. It's CYA.

 

[Mark888]

Originally Posted By: GrampsintheSand
You made a definitive statement that AUTORX would void a warranty. You are dead wrong per the Magnusson-Moss act. I provided you that info. So this discussion is silly. As for the OP. I doubt he would benefit from a full blown AUTORX clean/rinse but a maintenance dose will not void his warranty.
I have seen sludged engines with Mobil1 in them. Was it Mobil1's fault? Of course not. It was faulty PCV or ridiculous 25K OCI's (where did they get that silly idea I wonder?)...AUTORX will clean a "dirty" motor better than a synthetic motor oil.
I think what your crusading about is Mobil1 will keep a clean motor clean. That is fine. But don't tell people using any additive will automatically void their warranty because that is a flat untruth. Like saying if you put a Amsoil Air Filter in your new car the warranty is voided. Just not true.

I can't prove what would happen in a hypothetical situation. I do know that auto manufacturers (like most other companies) are quick to deny warranty claims if they can get away with it and if there are some questions about whether the owner has abused the engine in some way.

Now apart from whether they would know about it, if they did know about it, I would guess they would "try" and deny the claim based on the fact that Auto-Rx is an additive and not an API certified oil (as called for in the owners manual). Whether they could away with that and whether it would illegal to deny the claim is another matter. My opinion is that you can change your oil and filter yourself with an API certified oil according to manufacturer's requirements, and you would be fine with warranty claims if you have reasonable documentation. But once you put in additives, you are on your own.

But the real question is why use an additive to clean an engine when a good API certified synthetic oil approved by the engine manufacturer will do that anyway (even if it is sludged up)?

 

[GrampsintheSand]

Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: GrampsintheSand
You made a definitive statement that AUTORX would void a warranty. You are dead wrong per the Magnusson-Moss act. I provided you that info. So this discussion is silly. As for the OP. I doubt he would benefit from a full blown AUTORX clean/rinse but a maintenance dose will not void his warranty.
I have seen sludged engines with Mobil1 in them. Was it Mobil1's fault? Of course not. It was faulty PCV or ridiculous 25K OCI's (where did they get that silly idea I wonder?)...AUTORX will clean a "dirty" motor better than a synthetic motor oil.
I think what your crusading about is Mobil1 will keep a clean motor clean. That is fine. But don't tell people using any additive will automatically void their warranty because that is a flat untruth. Like saying if you put a Amsoil Air Filter in your new car the warranty is voided. Just not true.

I can't prove what would happen in a hypothetical situation. I do know that auto manufacturers (like most other companies) are quick to deny warranty claims if they can get away with it and if there are some questions about whether the owner has abused the engine in some way.

Now apart from whether they would know about it, if they did know about it, I would guess they would "try" and deny the claim based on the fact that Auto-Rx is an additive and not an API certified oil (as called for in the owners manual). Whether they could away with that and whether it would illegal to deny the claim is another matter. My opinion is that you can change your oil and filter yourself with an API certified oil according to manufacturer's requirements, and you would be fine with warranty claims if you have reasonable documentation. But once you put in additives, you are on your own.

But the real question is why use an additive to clean an engine when a good API certified synthetic oil approved by the engine manufacturer will do that anyway (even if it is sludged up)?

Well Mark you and I are going to disagree on which will clean and engine better AutoRX vs. Synthetic oil. Like saying I wash my clothes in really clean water and get my clothes clean versus water and a laundry detergent. But that is OK. We also apparently (amazingly) will disagree on the warranty process. You make it sound like the dealer can just say no we wont honor the warranty for whatever reason and that is just plain wrong. I looked at my Mercedes manual and my new Silverado manual to make sure. They recommend not using an additive. Key word here is "recommend"....

 

[Mark888]

Originally Posted By: GrampsintheSand
Well Mark you and I are going to disagree on which will clean and engine better AutoRX vs. Synthetic oil. Like saying I wash my clothes in really clean water and get my clothes clean versus water and a laundry detergent. But that is OK. We also apparently (amazingly) will disagree on the warranty process. You make it sound like the dealer can just say no we wont honor the warranty for whatever reason and that is just plain wrong. I looked at my Mercedes manual and my new Silverado manual to make sure. They recommend not using an additive. Key word here is "recommend"....

1. Clean better? I agree that AutoRx will clean faster, but sometimes faster is not always better. I have seen quite a few pictures of engine tear-downs on engines that have used Mobil 1 and they all look clean enough for me.

2. Like I said, whether they can get away with being able to deny a warranty claim is a different subject than whether they will try and deny a warranty claim. Personally, I don't want to deal with the issue since a good API certified synthetic oil will clean good enough for me. Why don't you ask your Mercedes service manager if it is OK to use Auto-Rx in an engine under warranty?

3. OK, they say "recommended." But to be sure what that really means, check the actual warranty documentation and see if they say you must follow the "recommended" maintenance procedures to maintain the warranty coverage.

4. What do you use to clean out your colon (since you seem to be obsessed about this cleansing stuff).

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
I would be just as willing to fill my entire crankcase with Auto RX as I would with an API SA rated oil. I'm about 99.99% certain there is nothing in Auto RX besides Polyol Ester, Aliphatic ester, and a Lanolin ester.

Doesn't really matter what the auto manufacturer would classify it as, since they would have to run the oil through a GCMS to even detect it.

It has been proven that a synthetic oil alone will not keep an engine spotless. There have been engines that have run synthetic all their life that still plugged their piston rings, and engines that developed varnish after switching to synthetic. Synthetic often form the nastiest, hardest to remove deposits of any oils. PAO especially. Having the Auto RX in the sump can benefit by keeping those deposits cleaned off.


Can you provide picture proof of this? Not being a jerk, just would love to see an engine all gunked up because of Synthetic use...



The search function unfortunately makes it nearly impossible to find what I'm looking for. There was a thread probably 6 months ago where someone had what I believe was a Toyota pickup that he purchased with some miles on it, and switched over to Amsoil. He noted that after something like 30K miles using Amsoil, there was far more varnish on his valvetrain than there was before he started using it. I'm pretty sure there were even pictures posted.

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
It has been proven that a synthetic oil alone will not keep an engine spotless. There have been engines that have run synthetic all their life that still plugged their piston rings, and engines that developed varnish after switching to synthetic. Synthetic often form the nastiest, hardest to remove deposits of any oils. PAO especially. Having the Auto RX in the sump can benefit by keeping those deposits cleaned off.

I don't think that is usually the case. Most engines using a high quality synthetic are extremely clean. Some synthetics have the same or similar esters already included to do that.


I do not know of one single other product that is designed for use inside of an engine that contains a Lanolin ester. That is the ester in Auto RX that cleans.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
I would be just as willing to fill my entire crankcase with Auto RX as I would with an API SA rated oil. I'm about 99.99% certain there is nothing in Auto RX besides Polyol Ester, Aliphatic ester, and a Lanolin ester.

Doesn't really matter what the auto manufacturer would classify it as, since they would have to run the oil through a GCMS to even detect it.

It has been proven that a synthetic oil alone will not keep an engine spotless. There have been engines that have run synthetic all their life that still plugged their piston rings, and engines that developed varnish after switching to synthetic. Synthetic often form the nastiest, hardest to remove deposits of any oils. PAO especially. Having the Auto RX in the sump can benefit by keeping those deposits cleaned off.


Can you provide picture proof of this? Not being a jerk, just would love to see an engine all gunked up because of Synthetic use...



The search function unfortunately makes it nearly impossible to find what I'm looking for. There was a thread probably 6 months ago where someone had what I believe was a Toyota pickup that he purchased with some miles on it, and switched over to Amsoil. He noted that after something like 30K miles using Amsoil, there was far more varnish on his valvetrain than there was before he started using it. I'm pretty sure there were even pictures posted.


I remember that thread, you're right the search engine leaves a lot to the imagination. IIRC it was "claimed" it was staining, not varnish. As a painter we always stain before varnishing.......

When you have a petro based chemical [oil], and high temps you will have some form of staining and varnish at some point.

 

[GrampsintheSand]

Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: GrampsintheSand
Well Mark you and I are going to disagree on which will clean and engine better AutoRX vs. Synthetic oil. Like saying I wash my clothes in really clean water and get my clothes clean versus water and a laundry detergent. But that is OK. We also apparently (amazingly) will disagree on the warranty process. You make it sound like the dealer can just say no we wont honor the warranty for whatever reason and that is just plain wrong. I looked at my Mercedes manual and my new Silverado manual to make sure. They recommend not using an additive. Key word here is "recommend"....

1. Clean better? I agree that AutoRx will clean faster, but sometimes faster is not always better. I have seen quite a few pictures of engine tear-downs on engines that have used Mobil 1 and they all look clean enough for me.

2. Like I said, whether they can get away with being able to deny a warranty claim is a different subject than whether they will try and deny a warranty claim. Personally, I don't want to deal with the issue since a good API certified synthetic oil will clean good enough for me. Why don't you ask your Mercedes service manager if it is OK to use Auto-Rx in an engine under warranty?

3. OK, they say "recommended." But to be sure what that really means, check the actual warranty documentation and see if they say you must follow the "recommended" maintenance procedures to maintain the warranty coverage.

4. What do you use to clean out your colon (since you seem to be obsessed about this cleansing stuff).

My colon? Your post do the trick.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
I would be just as willing to fill my entire crankcase with Auto RX as I would with an API SA rated oil. I'm about 99.99% certain there is nothing in Auto RX besides Polyol Ester, Aliphatic ester, and a Lanolin ester.

Doesn't really matter what the auto manufacturer would classify it as, since they would have to run the oil through a GCMS to even detect it.

It has been proven that a synthetic oil alone will not keep an engine spotless. There have been engines that have run synthetic all their life that still plugged their piston rings, and engines that developed varnish after switching to synthetic. Synthetic often form the nastiest, hardest to remove deposits of any oils. PAO especially. Having the Auto RX in the sump can benefit by keeping those deposits cleaned off.


Can you provide picture proof of this? Not being a jerk, just would love to see an engine all gunked up because of Synthetic use...



The search function unfortunately makes it nearly impossible to find what I'm looking for. There was a thread probably 6 months ago where someone had what I believe was a Toyota pickup that he purchased with some miles on it, and switched over to Amsoil. He noted that after something like 30K miles using Amsoil, there was far more varnish on his valvetrain than there was before he started using it. I'm pretty sure there were even pictures posted.


I remember that thread, you're right the search engine leaves a lot to the imagination. IIRC it was "claimed" it was staining, not varnish. As a painter we always stain before varnishing.......

When you have a petro based chemical [oil], and high temps you will have some form of staining and varnish at some point.


Use this to search... Much better: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/search.html

I will look into it... Thanks!

 

[Vizzy]

I agree with the posters that say to refrain from using most "additives".

It isn't worth the risk or trouble.

Using a good quality brand name syn oil (as specified by your car mfr) is your best bet.