synth and seals

Messages
175
Location
CA
I could use your help in understanding something I just read about using synthetic oil and engine seals. I got this from the auto rx FAQ: http://www.auto-rx.com/pages/faqs.htm "Q: I've heard that synthetic oil can adversely affect my seals. Does Auto-Rx® help? A: We believe that high-mileage engines using synthetic/semi-synthetic or high-mileage oil weaken the seal material and it loses its pliability. For those who have rear main oil seal leaks and want to use Auto-Rx® to try and stop them, we tell them to use non-synthetic oil to firm up the seal material after Auto-Rx® has cleaned it, as the chemistry in non-synthetic oil makes seals harden just right to effect a tight seal. After your leak is stopped, you can use any oil you want We question why anyone would want to go back to a chemistry that will start the process of seal material degradation all over again. One way around this problem is to use 3 ounces of Auto-Rx® with each oil change after a rear main seal leak is stopped. Now you are protecting seal degradation and can use synthetic, semi-synthetic, or high-mileage oil without creating a new leak problem." Comments?
 
Messages
1,408
Location
NH
i used pennzoil full syn for first time in my 99 cavalier and all i noticed was it didnt burn a drop after 9k...it has 180k on it now and a typically well maintained bitgoer engine
 
Messages
6,991
Location
Everett, Washington
I thought Frank was saying you can't use syn after fixing a leak. I see now with the maintenance dose you are good to go. I am trying fix a seal leak on a friends car right now......... We want to run Amsoil for extended runs after the seal fix. I am a proponent of doing that.
 
Messages
1,084
Location
Florida, USA
If you have a 2007 or 2008 Honda or Toyota, you should not be using Auto-Rx. Maybe there is a problem if you have a leak, and then use use Auto-Rx, and then switch to a synthetic right after that--I can't comment on that. But unless you have a serious problem you should not be using Auto-Rx. The original PAO synthetic oils many years ago had problems with seals, but they now have additives to resolve that. If you are concerned about the effect of PAO on seals use a Group III synthetic like PP. I used M1 5W-30 for 11 years in my 1998 Toyota Camry V6, and the oil level never noticeably dropped below Full between 6-7 OCI, and I never encountered even the slightest leak or oozing of oil anywhere. The worst thing you could possibly put in your relatively new engine is a product like Auto-Rx. If the auto manufacturer were to find out you used Auto-RX, and there was a problem with your engine, you will be in deep dodo (read your owners manual).
 
Messages
1,084
Location
Florida, USA
 Originally Posted By: chet2
i used pennzoil full syn for first time in my 99 cavalier and all i noticed was it didnt burn a drop after 9k...it has 180k on it now and a typically well maintained bitgoer engine
For high mileage engines where seals may be a problem, I would recommend a Group III synthetic like PP. The synthetic-seal issue is related to PAO. If one has used a PAO based oil with sufficient seal additives for a long time (since engine was relatively new) and there are no problems, I would continue to use PAO. Switching to PAO on a older engine can sometimes be a more of a problem with seals, but sometimes it works fine.
 
Messages
1,335
Location
Arizona
Your recommendation to the OP not to use Auto RX is a bit misleading. The only problem with using this ester based product is that it will not really do much seeing that the egine is so new. You are making it sound as if he will damage his engine??Totally false. I would like to see honda or toyota for that matter detect a product such as ARX, that is different from pretty much every other motor oil additive out there, in this guy's oil. Unless he mentions it, they will not be the wiser.
 
Messages
1,084
Location
Florida, USA
 Originally Posted By: AzFireGuy79
Your recommendation to the OP not to use Auto RX is a bit misleading. The only problem with using this ester based product is that it will not really do much seeing that the egine is so new. You are making it sound as if he will damage his engine??Totally false. I would like to see honda or toyota for that matter detect a product such as ARX, that is different from pretty much every other motor oil additive out there, in this guy's oil. Unless he mentions it, they will not be the wiser.
I agree that they would probably not find out unless he told them, unless it was still in the crankcase and they analyzed it for some reason (but not likely that would happen). But I don't understand the need for Auto-Rx on a relatively new engine. Any good synthetic will keep an engine clean, and clean it out if it is dirty.
 
Messages
1,093
Location
Kentucky
I have had synthetic in my Toyota for 280,000 miles. It was Castrol Syntec for 20,000 miles and Mobil 1 for 260,000 miles. Doesn't leak a drop, doesn't use a drop. I have had Mobil 1 synthetic in my Cavalier since the day it came home from the dealer and it now has 211,000 miles. Doesn't leak a drop and doesn't burn a drop. We have had several cars that got Mobil 1 the day it came home from the dealer, ran up to 190,000 miles, never leaked a drop and never burned a drop. I have used synthetic in my motorcycles, gasoline tractors, even lawn mowers, and synthetic 2 cycle oil. Never a problem of any kind, never a leak, never any consumption. MY synthetic experience only goes back to 1988 and we have about 2,000,000 total miles with no leaks or use with GM, Chrysler, Ford, Toyota, KIA, and DaeWoo. I just today/yesterday changed the oil and filter in a friend's 2003 GM. It has 91,600 miles and has a synthetic 10W-30 from the get-go. It doesn't burn or leak oil. In the area where I live, Valvoline full synthetic 10W-30 MaxLife and Mobil 1 10W-30 High Mileage are probably the two most popular synthetic oils even in new 2008 and 2009 vehicles. Valvoline, as you might expect in this area, has done a great job of getting the word out about MaxLife in new engines. They make a lot of mention about MaxLife being warranted for new engines. I know virtually nothing about Auto RX, Sea Foam, or any other oil additive as I have never used an oil additive. They seem to be a possible treatment for a problem that should have never occurred. I think a well maintained engine that has had reasonable OCI's with high quality oil will not need any additives. If the OCI is based upon high quality oil, vehicle type, and vehicle use, it will run great for a very long time.
 
Messages
2,338
Location
Magnolia, TX
If you have a 2007 or 2008 Honda or Toyota, you should not be using Auto-Rx. I'll have to go back and check, but I don't remember seeing that you can't use Group V POE/di-ester/lanolin ester based oils in a 2009 Toyota RAV4. Was this on the ARX website?
 
Messages
34,954
Location
NY
I used Mobil 1 exclusively since the late 80's up until December 2008, in one vehicle. No leaks, seeps, weeping, nothing. I think the whole thing about synthetic oil causing leaks is a myth. According to A-Rx Frank, A-Rx would not be detectable in a UOA, and will not void a warranty. Many people use it in new cars to keep engines clean, and it is also polar in nature so it gives some added AW protection.
 
Messages
47,525
Location
Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
I think this is one area on Frank's site that is frankly full of garbage.
 Quote:
using synthetic/semi-synthetic or high-mileage oil weaken the seal material and it loses its pliability.
 Quote:
a bunch of sales pitch stuff
The only thing I've seen any oil do to seals is conventional oil harden the seals over 15-20 years.
 
Messages
4,942
Location
Billings, MT
I don't think mozart is actually wanting to run Auto RX in the new vehicle. Mozart just wanted to know if those statements about synthetic oil are true. Modern synthetic oils have seal conditioners that will prevent the seals from "drying up". I do however say that if Mozart wants to run a maintenance dose of Auto RX from the start with a new vehicle, there is nothing it could possibly harm. It will help to prevent any deposits from ever forming, especially in the piston rings.
 
Messages
34,954
Location
NY
Understood, I was pointing out that synthetic oil, from my observations and use didn't cause any seal problems. I've used it for a very long time in one vehicle, which I still drive and it is as leak free as the day I bought it. I don't see A-Rx causing any problems in a new car with the warranty, and as you said it would probably keep things clean. A full A-Rx treatment would never be needed if a main't dose was used early on.
 
Messages
1,267
Location
Tennessee
I swapped an 01 150,000 miles Eclipse GS 2.4 from a conventional life to a synthetic life (GC 0W-30) and developed not a single leak. Slowed consumption, though. I swapped my 1986 Ford F150 302 from a conventional life to synthetic, and developed not a single leak. This synthetic was Rotella-T 5W-40. I'm almost turned away from the synthetics causing leaks stories. I think they would 'moisturize' the seals better. If synthetics KEEP them good, why wouldn't they help in a way?
 
Messages
34,954
Location
NY
Good point about the "moisturize" idea, I feel the same way. I would think the synthetic oils would keep them pliable, and condition them.
 
Messages
343
Location
Grand Caymans
 Originally Posted By: Mark888
If you have a 2007 or 2008 Honda or Toyota, you should not be using Auto-Rx. Maybe there is a problem if you have a leak, and then use use Auto-Rx, and then switch to a synthetic right after that--I can't comment on that. But unless you have a serious problem you should not be using Auto-Rx. The original PAO synthetic oils many years ago had problems with seals, but they now have additives to resolve that. If you are concerned about the effect of PAO on seals use a Group III synthetic like PP. I used M1 5W-30 for 11 years in my 1998 Toyota Camry V6, and the oil level never noticeably dropped below Full between 6-7 OCI, and I never encountered even the slightest leak or oozing of oil anywhere. The worst thing you could possibly put in your relatively new engine is a product like Auto-Rx. If the auto manufacturer were to find out you used Auto-RX, and there was a problem with your engine, you will be in deep dodo (read your owners manual).
Use AutoRX with confidence at any stage of a cars life. It is an ester based oil. Magnusson-Moss Act of 1975 covers this specifically. One of the major proponents of this act was B&G....a large manufacturer/blender of "additives". Simply put.....you utilize AutoRX and have a warranty issue the manufacturer would have to prove AutoRX was the direct cause of the failure.Never happen. So the above post is totally misguided and misleading. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act If I subscribed to the above quote RLI would void my warranty would it not? Of course not. Just silly.
 
Messages
6,156
Location
Buffalo, NY
Um, they do have something called Mobil1 "High Mileage." I think most have had good luck with it. I'll let you know how it goes over the summer for me... ;\)
 
Messages
343
Location
Grand Caymans
 Originally Posted By: Pablo
I think this is one area on Frank's site that is frankly full of garbage.
 Quote:
using synthetic/semi-synthetic or high-mileage oil weaken the seal material and it loses its pliability.
 Quote:
a bunch of sales pitch stuff
The only thing I've seen any oil do to seals is conventional oil harden the seals over 15-20 years.
Now Pablo you cut and pasted for effect didn't you?
 Originally Posted By: Frank
We believe that high-mileage engines using synthetic/semi-synthetic or high-mileage oil weaken the seal material and it loses its pliability.
With your cut and paste it appears they are making a statement of fact. But when the entire quote is utilized it is clear they are offering their own opinion only. I disagree with Frank on this issue but wish to be fair. He offered that as his opinion only and not a statement of fact as your post implied with your editing of his quote.
 
Top