Syntec 5w-50 in an Audi TT 180HP??

Bumper · May 11, 2004

I just brought in my 2001 Audi TT 1.8T 180 HP Quattro for its 40,000 mile service at the dealer. Its free of charge otherwise no way would I bring it there. Anyway, I have always given it a steady diet of M1 0W-40 changed every 5K miles and it has done very well with no consumption at all. This car see mostly highway driving at 80 MPH for my 100 mile roundtrip commute to work and very little city driving but when it does I push it hard as its just too much fun to say no

Well, my dealer was supposed to put in the Mobil 1 but said he ran out and put in Syntec 5W-50 instead and said its just as good and that it will still protect very well for my 5K mile OCI. Ever since I have started reading this board I have become paranoid that if I don't use Mobil 1 my car will suffer and the Turbo will coke and die prematurely. Its summer in NY and this car will see temps in the 80s and 90s. Am I just worrying about nothing or should I have the oil changed back to M1 ASAP??

Thanks for the advice guys as you are the only ones who can possibly understand my anxiety

Quattro Pete · May 11, 2004

I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I only saw good results posted here about Syntec 5w-50 despite it being Group III. I'd just go back to using M1 at the next scheduled oil change.

Patman · May 11, 2004

quote:

Am I just worrying about nothing or should I have the oil changed back to M1 ASAP??

I wouldn't worry about it. In fact it would be nice to see you run a couple of intervals with it and post some UOAs. We have barely any UOAs with this oil.

Schmoe · May 11, 2004

The VOA's on this stuff looks like the holy grail. I mean it has a butt load of moly, nice ZDP levels and high TBN. The only thing I don't know is its' HTHS. Cost more than M1. Sounds like you got a pretty good thing going.

Audi Junkie · May 11, 2004

If I had M1 0w-40 and Syntec 5w-50 sitting side-by-side, I'd use the Syntec 5w-50. My friend, the owner of the BOSCH Center I use, a 20 year Audi Master Mechanic, holds a *competition* racing licence uses Syntec 5w-50 by the drum. From customer cars, to his S6 with 26lbs of boost, Syntec 5w-50 is the way to go. Moribundman used it at 10k intervals to a total of 110k and his valves look super-clean. The awesome PTG V8 M3 racer uses it over the similarly formulated TSW Motorsport 10w-60.

http://forums.audiworld.com/racing/msgs/33319.phtml

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005119#000018

[ May 12, 2004, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: Audi Junkie ]

Jelly · May 11, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
If I had M1 0w-40 and Syntec 5w-50 sitting side-by-side, I'd use the Syntec 5w-50. My friend, the owner of the BOSCH Center I use, a 20 year Audi Master Mechanic, holds a *competition* racing licence uses Syntec 5w-50 by the drum. From customer cars, to his S6 with 26lbs of boost, Syntec 5w-50 is the way to go. Moribundman used it at 10k intervals to a total of 110k and his valves look super-clean. The awesome PTG V8 M3 racer uses it over the similarly formulated TSW Motorsport 10w-60.

http://forums.audiworld.com/racing/msgs/33319.phtml

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005119#000018

If you want to start talking 50 weights, then I'd definitely take M1 15w-50 over the Syntec...

moribundman · May 12, 2004

quote:

Moribundman used it at 10k intervals to a total of 110k and his valves look super-clean.

I haven't had to take the heads off, so I can't confirm that.

I will however say that I did use Syntec 5W-50 in my Audi from '96 till late 2001 for about 100k miles with very good results ?(See pic in Audi Junkie's 2nd link). Keep in mind that I have the 2.8 12v engine, which has a relatively large sump and, being normally aspirated, this motor is easy on the oil.

Audi Junkie · May 12, 2004

quote:

I'd definitely take M1 15w-50 over the Syntec...

...right, because YOU have SO much experience with both oils on track conditions in highly boosted *real* race cars.

http://forums.audiworld.com/racing/msgs/33338.phtml

http://forums.audiworld.com/racing/msgs/33319.phtml

427Z06 · May 12, 2004

FWIW, I have over 100K miles on Syntec 5W-50 in a '89 Supra. Only syn oil I tried that would let me do 5K OCI without topping off. Some oils I tried required a quart every 1K miles. It still runs very strong, but recently it's developed a head gasket leak so I've been babying it until I can take it apart and fix it. By the way the head gasket problem is totally unrelated to the oil that's been in it. These things have a history of head gasket problems, especially the Turbos.

TooSlick · May 12, 2004

The best Mobil formulation to run in this application is their 10w-30, unless you live in Alaska, in which case I'd use their 0w-30/5w-30 in the winter ....

I wouldn't run a 0w-40 or 5w-50 in ANY turbo engine, due to the significant polymer content, which promotes piston deposits and ring sticking. It's simply a bad idea.

Tooslick
www.lubedealer.com/dixie_synthetics

Jelly · May 12, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Audi Junkie:

quote:

I'd definitely take M1 15w-50 over the Syntec...

Click to expand...

...right, because YOU have SO much experience with both oils on track conditions in highly boosted *real* race cars.

Junkie,

IMHO, M1 15w-50 is just a better oil than the Syntec...regardless of the application.

Audi Junkie · May 12, 2004

quote:

I wouldn't run a 0w-40 or 5w-50 in ANY turbo engine, due to the significant polymer content, which promotes piston deposits and ring sticking

...unless it was AMSOIL

...all just theory, 0w-40 is made for turbos.

quote:

...regardless of the application

5w-50 is better in the cold. Unless Mobil is calling their oil a 15w when it is actually a 10w or even a 5w as a -49f pp would indicate.

Can someone show me where Syntec 5w-50 did ANY engine damage including sludge? I have real, tangiable, PROOF of Syntec working perfectly in engines from a tame 12v V6 to a tweaked I-6 2.3T with 26lbs of boost. All you guys with nothing but theory on this subject sound quite foolish to me. From what I can gather, you (plural) have not even used Syntec 5w-50! Yet alone side-by-side comparisons in the same design engine under extended FULL POWER conditions. From what I have heard, M1 15w-50 does not hold OP as well as Syntec. Is the guy, 20 y/r a Master Porsche/Audi mech wrong? An idiot? Paid-off? Operating just on theory? No. People on this forum have to get away from spewing theory and "guesses" in favour of real practice.

[ May 13, 2004, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: Audi Junkie ]

Dr. T · May 12, 2004

I agree. I went back to Syntec 5-50 after trying M-1 5-30, 0-40, 15-50, Castrol TWS and BMW Euro. 0-40. Better performance than all of these both in engine peformance, fuel economy and lowest consumption.

I may be trying the Belgian 5-40 next...

G-MAN · May 12, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by TooSlick:
I wouldn't run a 0w-40 or 5w-50 in ANY turbo engine, due to the significant polymer content, which promotes piston deposits and ring sticking. It's simply a bad idea.

I guess that's why Mobil 1 0w40 comes as factory fill in the new Bentley GT (twin turbo, W12, 550 bhp), the Porsche Cayenne Turbo (V8, 450 bhp), and the Maybach (twin turbo, V12, 550 bhp).

427Z06 · May 13, 2004

As I mentioned before, I used this 5w50 oil for well over 100K miles and last time I had the cam covers off at about 80K, the engine looked like new. People who know me, also know I have a depleted uranium right foot. I'll add that I rarely went over 5K OCI with it. So if you regularly take this oil out to 10K, you might see some of the problems TooSlick mentioned.

moribundman · May 13, 2004

It's interesting that most of the people who have used Syntec 5W-50 have actually made good experiences with it. I don't remember seeing a bad UOA on it, but then again, there are barely any UOAs on it. If I weren't at odds with Castrol's rhetoric, I'd still be using Syntec 5W-50.

I also wonder if M1 15W-50 is maybe identical to M1 5W-50, which Mobil sells in other parts of the world. Maybe they don't want to advertise it as a 5W-50 out of fear that people will bring up the polymer thickeners?

Whimsey · May 13, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Audi Junkie:

Can someone show me where Syntec 5w-50 did ANY engine damage including sludge? I have real, tangiable, PROOF of Syntec working perfectly in engines from a tame 12v V6 to a tweaked I-6 2.3T with 26lbs of boost.

[/QB]

I know this is not scientific but I can say that using Syntec 5W-50 for 25,000+ miles at 5,000 mi. OCI's has not caused any harm or sludge in my engine. I don't use it any more because my power and gas mileage was poor. This was my pre-BITOG time where I thought that "thicker was better" no matter what the manufacture called for

. I went back to 5W-30 Mobil 1 and WOW

new power and bonus gas mileage. Of course the car is a 4 cyl Zetec Ford engine, not exactly a hot rod

. But it is a 5 speed and does like to "hang" at 6,000+ rpms frequently

.

Whimsey

Audi Junkie · May 13, 2004

quote:

I also wonder if M1 15W-50 is maybe identical to M1 5W-50, which Mobil sells in other parts of the world

Look at the PP, I guess.

M1 0w-40 is the only "World" oil, supposedly.

I would not be surprised of M1 15w-50 was actually more like a 5w or 10w-50. Who can trust Mobil anyway?

sprintman · May 13, 2004

FWIW I'm using the obsolete Pennzoil Performax 100 5W50 PAO/ester? in my turbo and oil consumption basicaly zero which I havn't seen with any oil previously used in this engine (and thats a lot of oils). I can still find it in several shops here in Oz so it must be available in the U.S. Worth hunting up IMO.

Quattro Pete · May 13, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by moribundman:
I also wonder if M1 15W-50 is maybe identical to M1 5W-50, which Mobil sells in other parts of the world. Maybe they don't want to advertise it as a 5W-50 out of fear that people will bring up the polymer thickeners?

The specs appear to be somewhat different:

code:

cSt@100C cSt@40C Visc. Index Pour point Flash Point

-------------------------------------------------------------------

M1 15w-50 17.4 125 153 -45C 230C

M1 5w-50 17.5 104.9 184 -54C 236C

Syntec 5w-50 in an Audi TT 180HP??

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