jj, maybe I can explain this to you, The issue here is, some people want to include or classify the 131 as a harsh solvent based chemical that is unsafe for your engine. This is not the case.quote:
Originally posted by jjbula:
Dragboat-- What is in neutra that has caused the solvent vs. not a solvent debate?quote:
Originally posted by dragboat:
jjbula
You have asked a question I think you should answer
You stated "so when is alcohol not a solvent?"
I ask,when is alcohol a solvent ? Many alcohol types .Pick one
First consider this, on the recommended normal purge, it's a 1 ounce to 1qt ratio. Look at the msds, 10-12% alcohol. So, 1 ounce of the 131 there's a what, 10-12% alcohol?, so that 10% of 1 ounce is being considered a solvent in this case? Take that 10% of one ounce, put it into 32ounces(1qt), now what percentage of solvent is this when mixed? Can you run a solvent in your engine for over 4,000 miles and not hurt it?, What will a solvent do to seals,? So far, I can say with out a doubt, my seals are still good. I don't see smoke puffing out my engine, nor any leaks nor have I lost any bearings. And lastly, Schaeffers has 3 chemists on staff that all have stated it wasn't a solvent. You really don't think Schaeffers is going to ruin their reputation over this product? They've been doing this way too long to call it something it isn't. Actually, the chief chemist called it a lubricant additive. Well, what ever you call it, I have seen this product to be one of the most versitile ones they have. To be able to use it in gas or diesel fuels, oil, hydraulic systems, gearboxes, transmissions, p/steering.
I have received many calls from many people on this board having had excellent results in the oil with the 131. I posted a picture where I picked up some solvent flushes and put them in to a cup.. here is the results for those that missed this...
I bought 2 solvent engine flushes... All I did was take 3 disposable coffee cups, put the gunk in one, K&W in another and 131 neutra in the other. With in less than 5 min's, both the gunk and k&w had ate through the cups, leaving them empty and all over my bench, the Schaeffers 131 neutra did nothing but sit in the cup. Upon close examination, you can see where the actual solvents had destroyed the cups where the liquid touched and the 131 neutra had no problem and the cup is still intact.
Molakule made some interesting points and if I may, share them here as well when it comes to solvents...
I noticed that there was a lot of discussion on solvents in these threads and I would like to comment if I may. In the Oxford Dictionary of Chemistry, a solvent is "a liquid that dissolves another substance or substances to form a solution." Detergent/Dispersant additives would fall into this category as well.
There are solvents that are both polar and non-polar. Solvents such as benzene, carbon tetrachloride, phenol, hexanes, alcohols, and others in this category are non-polar.
Esters are very polar and are added to both synth and conventional oils to mix additives. Take a common additive such as ZDDP, which is usually introduced as a salt of ester and is an anti-wear, anti-oxidant, additive, extreme pressure (boundary) addtive. The polar nature of the ZDDP ester "seeks" out metal ions and bonds to them, forming a protective layer. Moly and other boundary additives do the same.
The bottom line is that all the chemicals above are solvents. What they react to, dissolve with or put into solution, and how fast they react, depends upon the nature of the solvent and what they are seeking to dissolve.
Whether you use an ester, or an alcohol, or an aromatic hydrocarbon, they all will dissolve some substance and put something into solution. Its a matter of degree.
Now naturally derived esters do have one advantage over aromatic hydrocarbons, they are generally more biodegradable; AKA, more "environmentally friendly."
When you consider these engine cleaners under this defintion, They all show to be a solvent but to different varying degrees.
