I am switching from Delo 15w40 to Amsoil 15w40 in a gas engine with 40,000 miles. I do not want to do a 'solvent' flush, and am not worried about the engine being 'gunked up'...but, is there any OTC product that can work as a neutralizer for the old oil? Just to run for a while before I change over...Rislone? MMO? CD2 detergent?
switching brands...flush?
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MolaKule
Staff member
I would use the Schaeffer's "Nuetra."
Patman
Staff member
Isn't Neutra a solvent though?
Matt,an option might be to say if you had a 5 quart sytem to use only 3 quarts of the new oil and drive around town a bit and drain,keep it for a lawn mower or something. I you know it's not sludged you might get by with B12 Chemtool which will evaporate very quickly "flame suit on" but still stand a chance of hurting the new oil.After first drain and before putting the new oil in disconnect the ignition and spin the motor,some mor oil will come out which will be that much less to skew the new..or could just put 3k or so and drain?
Purging will be the best way,the most expensive as well but if you have mowers or another beater car can save it for later.
Patman,the Nuetra contains alcohol of some type and something else,I would not call it a solvent as we know a solvent to be imo which as Molakule suggested,would probably be the best to use for this.But i would not sweat it,could just pour and go then change early
[ September 10, 2002, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
Purging will be the best way,the most expensive as well but if you have mowers or another beater car can save it for later.
Patman,the Nuetra contains alcohol of some type and something else,I would not call it a solvent as we know a solvent to be imo which as Molakule suggested,would probably be the best to use for this.But i would not sweat it,could just pour and go then change early
[ September 10, 2002, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]
I just went ahead and got a pint of the Amsoil Engine Flush while I was there...
any pointers on using it? Should I run some oil through the system for a few minutes after i drain the oil/flush, or just put in the new oil?
thanks,
Matt
any pointers on using it? Should I run some oil through the system for a few minutes after i drain the oil/flush, or just put in the new oil?
thanks,
Matt
Matt-
Just put in the new oil and go. What little flush may remain in the engine is very volatile and will be gone in short order.
Just put in the new oil and go. What little flush may remain in the engine is very volatile and will be gone in short order.
Patman
Staff member
I thought you didn't want to do a solvent flush? Isn't the Amsoil flush a solvent?
Since when is alcohol not a solvent?
It is low level and in a solution with lubricants but I would not say it is not a solvent.
BTW, I don't think solvents are bad. I just don't like the 5 min engine flush which is loaded with solvent.
Anything I can't drive around with in my crankcase is probably not not good for it.
[ September 11, 2002, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: jjbula ]
I didn't really want to do a solvent flush, but it was just easier to get it while I was there...
I am kinda hesitant about using it, but figure that it has its purpose.
Matt
I am kinda hesitant about using it, but figure that it has its purpose.
Matt
Patman
Staff member
I would recommend doing a second quick oil change though. As there will be a bit of leftover solvent in there after the first oil change, and it will degrade the oil faster.
So in other words, if you do a solvent flush, change the oil right away after it, then drive for a day or two and change the oil once again. Otherwise for the next few thousand miles you'll have that tiny little bit of leftover solvent in there messing up your oil.
So in other words, if you do a solvent flush, change the oil right away after it, then drive for a day or two and change the oil once again. Otherwise for the next few thousand miles you'll have that tiny little bit of leftover solvent in there messing up your oil.
Matt,
I've personally used the Amsoil engine flush on dozens of engines with good results ...What I do is change just the filter and add the flush to the old oil. Idle the engine at twice the normal engine idle speed for 20-30 minutes, depending on how dirty the engine is inside. Then change the oil/filter and put the Amsoil in there. The small amount of engine flush remaining will evaporate fairly quickly and isn't a problem. Follow the directions on the back of the can and it will work fine.
For severely sludged up engines, I have my customers run a 50%/50% mixture of Amsoil and a petroleum oil (usually Valvoline) with an Amsoil (or Mobil 1) oil filter for 5000-6000 miles. The esters that Amsoil uses will slowly clean out any sludge/varnish/carbon deposits. You can also use the Auto RX to accomplish the same thing ....
TooSlick
I've personally used the Amsoil engine flush on dozens of engines with good results ...What I do is change just the filter and add the flush to the old oil. Idle the engine at twice the normal engine idle speed for 20-30 minutes, depending on how dirty the engine is inside. Then change the oil/filter and put the Amsoil in there. The small amount of engine flush remaining will evaporate fairly quickly and isn't a problem. Follow the directions on the back of the can and it will work fine.
For severely sludged up engines, I have my customers run a 50%/50% mixture of Amsoil and a petroleum oil (usually Valvoline) with an Amsoil (or Mobil 1) oil filter for 5000-6000 miles. The esters that Amsoil uses will slowly clean out any sludge/varnish/carbon deposits. You can also use the Auto RX to accomplish the same thing ....
TooSlick
Patman, instead of me going into this again, I'm going to repost from another thread that maybe you missed.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000032
like many other times, a judgement has been made on such a product and come to find out that it is not what it seems. Unless you know the exact amounts/chemistry design, I don't think you can make a solid determination on just how this will react in an engine without extensive testing. Just like the flash point issue, stating it will not stay in the engine and burn off, but failing to consider that this products flashpoint will take on different charateristics when mixed with another lubricant, so is this solvency issue. This product may have some solvency in it, but point is, if a bottle of cleaner states put into engine and run 10 or 15mins, then yes, what you are saying is true, but if you can run 4,000 miles with this in your oil especially at the speeds in which I drove to texas and back, in those heated conditions, and not spin a bearing, it sure isn't luck and obviously it sure hasn't caused any problems in the engine either as I had pulled a sample and posted the results, http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000056 , this had a full bottle of neutra in it.(BTW,you'll notice it didn't change the oil properties like a solvent would) You really think this product is going to spin bearings or cause it to break off chunks that I'd even consider using it in mine? Please, the local Toyota boys here in arlington use it in a lot of cars as they themselves have done the same, put some in their engine and have seen where the smoke has gone down to nothing in the 1000 mile period. If you'd like, I'll give you the master Toyota ASE certified mechanic's name and number so you can verify this.
This product is used in gear boxes, hydraulic systems, engine purges,diesel and gas fuel systems, even auto transmissions and many other applications. Fact, I have one guy that even uses it as a rust buster penetrating oil.
This product has a lubrication property proven in my fuel demo, neutralizes acids again proven in the fuel demo where I put sufuric acid in it, also conditions seals, as I showed on my little tests shown here, http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/sealconditioning/sealcondtioning.htm , .
I never said oils couldn't clean.. Fact is I proved that cleaning is happening in oils but to lesser and varying degrees as seen here..
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/sealconditioning/sealcondtioning.htm
It is the degree of which an oil can clean that is questionable. You have to remember, the balance on oil additives need to play along with the other additives and too much affects the over all performance of the lubrication properties.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/sealconditioning/sealcondtioning.htm
It is the degree of which an oil can clean that is questionable. You have to remember, the balance on oil additives need to play along with the other additives and too much affects the over all performance of the lubrication properties.
another quick question - should the flush be run in a warmed up engine or is a cold engine okay...or does it make a difference?
thanks,
Matt
thanks,
Matt
jjbula
You have asked a question I think you should answer
You stated "so when is alcohol not a solvent?"
I ask,when is alcohol a solvent ? Many alcohol types .Pick one
I merely stated if it a solvent"the 131" it is not what we normally refer to as a solvent,I would not purchase it as a solution to clean parts in a parts Vat
You have asked a question I think you should answer
You stated "so when is alcohol not a solvent?"
I ask,when is alcohol a solvent ? Many alcohol types .Pick one
I merely stated if it a solvent"the 131" it is not what we normally refer to as a solvent,I would not purchase it as a solution to clean parts in a parts Vat
TooSlick, I would like to ask your opinion about this
Quote:
I believe this would be a di-basic acid ester or "diester"."
What would the affects on seals be using this in a engine without seal swell agents,as in most 1.00 a quart dinos.
It's only your opinion,if you don't feel comfortable posting,please email me, your "opinion" will remain in confidence
Quote:
I believe this would be a di-basic acid ester or "diester"."
What would the affects on seals be using this in a engine without seal swell agents,as in most 1.00 a quart dinos.
It's only your opinion,if you don't feel comfortable posting,please email me, your "opinion" will remain in confidence
Spector,
Synthetics that contain a significant percentage of organic ester basestock have excellent cleaning properties. Put some Delvac 1 synthetic in a high mileage diesel engine for 3000 miles - it'll clean like crazy. The problem is that the oil additives will become rapidly depleted in doing this, and the filter will load up with sludge.
Read the MSDS for Auto RX ...it is basically a concentrated fatty acid ester. I'm not an organic chemist but I believe this would be a di-basic acid ester or "diester". I'm sure Molecule could give you more specifics ....
Synthetics that contain a significant percentage of organic ester basestock have excellent cleaning properties. Put some Delvac 1 synthetic in a high mileage diesel engine for 3000 miles - it'll clean like crazy. The problem is that the oil additives will become rapidly depleted in doing this, and the filter will load up with sludge.
Read the MSDS for Auto RX ...it is basically a concentrated fatty acid ester. I'm not an organic chemist but I believe this would be a di-basic acid ester or "diester". I'm sure Molecule could give you more specifics ....
Dragboat,
I am very impressed with Auto RX ...I used it on an older engine with a noticable oil pan gasket leak and it almost stopped the leakage after 500 miles. It will also quiet down noisy lifters and even clean off baked on varnish. I am on my second application and it is continuing to clean out the motor as viewed through the oil filler cap.
I stopped using these type of products 25 years ago when I started using Amsoil, but this Auto RX performs as advertised. I would not be concerned about seals ...this stuff will simply clean the abrasive deposits that keep the seal from functioning normally. I'd highly recommend it before changing over to any long drain oil ....
TooSlick
I am very impressed with Auto RX ...I used it on an older engine with a noticable oil pan gasket leak and it almost stopped the leakage after 500 miles. It will also quiet down noisy lifters and even clean off baked on varnish. I am on my second application and it is continuing to clean out the motor as viewed through the oil filler cap.
I stopped using these type of products 25 years ago when I started using Amsoil, but this Auto RX performs as advertised. I would not be concerned about seals ...this stuff will simply clean the abrasive deposits that keep the seal from functioning normally. I'd highly recommend it before changing over to any long drain oil ....
TooSlick
Dragboat-- What is in neutra that has caused the solvent vs. not a solvent debate?quote:
Originally posted by dragboat:
jjbula
You have asked a question I think you should answer
You stated "so when is alcohol not a solvent?"
I ask,when is alcohol a solvent ? Many alcohol types .Pick one
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