Switch wiring problem

[JHZR2]

In my dining room, there was a dimmer previously. I installed an antique chandelier that my parents had, and installed led bulbs in it. The dimmer was for incandescent bulbs, so it wouldn't dim LEDs. I bought a Lutron led dimmer, and installed it per the wiring chart. Nothing.

I got some test leads and tried the switch, which worked in a wiring configuration inconsistent with the picture. But it did switch the lights on and off.

Thing is, the switch works the opposite way that it should,n it is a 3-way capable switch, but I'm using it single pole which they say is fine. I've tried every configuration possible, most don't work, and when the wires are configured for it to work, the switch is wrong. Judguing by the lettering directions, down is on, up is off. Then up is full bright, down is minimal brightness, as one would expect.

The switch notionally should always be up is on, down is off, and the dimmer slider at the top is full bright, bottom is dimmest... Right?

So is there some possible issue with my wiring that causes this anomalous behavior, or is it just a matter of Mexican garbage?

 

[Hokiefyd]

Is there a second switch on the other side of the room that controls the same circuit?

 

[Rick in PA]

Since it's a 3-way switch, try the other "output" pole.

The standard for switches is up is on, and down is off. I've never seen a switch that doesn't adhere to this standard in 30+ years (the exception being 3-way switches, which are not labeled).

 

[bepperb]

I agree with Rick, if it's a 3 way switch that means up outputs to one pole, down outputs to the other. So it should be as easy as switching to the other output pole (usually there are 2 on one side that are "out" and one "in" on the other).

 

[spasm3]

As you may find out older homes can be wired odd. I had previously that was built in the '30s , no grounds, lights wired off outlets etc. I would get a meter and check the other pole of the switches.

 

[eljefino]

Can you rig this up on your workbench? This would write off any funky house wiring.

 

[JHZR2]

The switch is incorrectly set up, believe it or not! Found identical complaints on the Home Depot website, which is where I got this.

The switch is a cfl dimmer, not as straightforward as a regular single pole metal switch to test. Did test a wiring configurations via jumpers on my bench.

 

[Donald]

You probably need some load on the switch for it to work properly. Also with a 3-way capable switch, there is really no up=on. You should install it that way however.

 

[JTK]

I feel your pain J.

Our last home had several lights controlled with 4-way switching, with some switches ugly and worn, being from ~1954. Man did I mess them up when I went through replacing plugs, switches, etc.. Luckily I've got an electrician brother to bail me out.

 

[Whitewolf]

Well I'm not an American and I thought that it was just me being stupid about wiring over here so although it doesn't help you very much it is a relief to me that even you can't understand it.
We have got similar problems with dimmers in this new house
Our only option is to pay in order to fix things.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Donald
You probably need some load on the switch for it to work properly. Also with a 3-way capable switch, there is really no up=on. You should install it that way however.


It's true that there is no labeled on/off, but all words on the switch front body go one way, and they're upside down when the switch is installed such that down is off and up is on. However, the direction for the dimmer function is indeed correct (up wrt the lettering is brightest, so since its now upside down to switch properly, now the brightest is at the bottom, where the switch position is "off"), which is where my issue lies. The dimmer should be able to be installed such that up is brightest, down is dimmest.

There is only one possible way to wire the switch with the hot and the return for the switch to work.

 

[JHZR2]

the switch works properly. Have tried it with five 9W dimmable LEDs as well as a bunch of incandescent bulbs. Still not right. Think that because these dimmers actually have a circuit in them, that's part of the main problem...

 

[JHZR2]

OK so I did more analysis...

The chandelier in my dining room is set up with a switch loop to the switch on my wall. A regular switch works just fine. I have tried both a regular dimmer on an incandescent bulb, as well as a CFL/LED dimmer on some approved Cree LED bulbs. Something is wrong with all of them.

This is a single pole switch. Here is what I found:

Tried the single pole incandescent Lutron dimmer, and it turns the light on and off, but the dimming function doesnt work.

Tried one Lutron LED dimmer on some Cree LEDs, and it turned them on and off, but the down position turned the lights on, the up position turned them off, and, the dimmer slider in the up position was brightest and the down position was the lowest brightness, as it should work... all as mentioned before...

So I replaced the LED dimmer with another, thinking that it was just defective... The next one will turn the lights on and off, but doesnt dim at all - exact same model...

The incandescent dimmer had two stranded wires attached, so it could only be installed one way. The LED dimmers had screw terminals, and the other odd thing was that the wiring configuration specified in the instructions didnt work, while another wiring arrangement allowed it to at least turn on and off as described above.

The wires are just a switch loop - if I connect the two, the lights turn on. If I measure with a voltmeter against a neutral at a wall plug, one shows 120V and the other doesnt. There are only two leads here, there is no ground, but the instructions state clearly that no ground is necessary as long as a non-conductive face plate is used.

Any idea or suggestions what might be wrong? It is such an odd situation to me.

Thanks!!

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Is there a second switch on the other side of the room that controls the same circuit?


I didn't see an answer to this question...you've got an older house...you're certain that you've got a single pole/single circuit? Funny things happen to wiring over decades of ownership...

 

[JHZR2]

Yes this is a single pole circuit. This is a switch issue, and though the switches are approved by Cree, they don't work.

The incandescent dimmer is rather old, so it may have been broken. Still, it switched on and off.

The two led switches I tried, same part number, etc. both acted differently. Bought a different style, but with an acceptable part number, from lowes, and jumpered it up. It works fine. So problem solved and looks like inconsistent Mexican garbage products.