Switch to synthetic media filter?

[Falcon_LS]

I follow the OLM on my '05 Envoy, which has just hit 62,000 miles. Oil wise, it gets either Pennzoil Ultra 5W-40 or Mobil 1 0W-40 - whichever is available and/or cheaper. The current fill of Pennzoil Ultra, with a WIX 51522, has 6,315 miles on it and the OLM stands at 40%. Would it make sense to use a synthetic media filter like a Bosch Distance Plus?

I can't get the PF61 here, it's just the PF61E that's available and I'm not using an eCore. Not a big fan of ACDelco filters either, mostly because I prefer a silicone anti-drain back valve. The WIX I can get locally, but I don't mind ordering a batch of filters from the States if it's going to be a better option. Thanks!

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Would it make sense to use a synthetic media filter like a Bosch Distance Plus?

The Bosch DP does not use synthetic media, just a high-quality cellulose. Not that that's bad of course, just not what you're looking for. Their new Long Life filter apparently uses synthetic media.

That said, the DP looks like what you want anyway. It has silicone rubber bits, high efficiency, and high capacity.

 

[LeakySeals]

Yeah, thats a good idea. I'm going 10k on the old Camry, OLM on GM. Since upgrading from a regular 90-95% paper media filter to a 99% efficiency extended interval syn media filter, there is a huge visible difference in how the oil "looks". At 9500 miles the oil looks like it used to at 3k. Concerned about high efficiency filter flow on extended intervals I chose the Fram Ultra because it has a metal screen backing the media to help prevent against collapse as the 2X plys of syn media loads up. Cheaper too.

You can see the screen here
http://fram.com/products/oil_filters/fram_ultra_oil_filter/

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Would it make sense to use a synthetic media filter like a Bosch Distance Plus?

The Bosch DP does not use synthetic media, just a high-quality cellulose. Not that that's bad of course, just not what you're looking for. Their new Long Life filter apparently uses synthetic media.

That said, the DP looks like what you want anyway. It has silicone rubber bits, high efficiency, and high capacity.

The official website gives nothing. Found this on the interwebs. Is "Synthetic Fiber Media" a fancy way of saying "paper not from trees, paper made in a lab" ? Or maybe a blend of cellulose and synthetic media ?

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

Yeah, that's essentially what I meant. Yes, the DP has 'paper' media of some manufactured origin while filters like the Fram Ultra and Purolator Synthetic have the wire-backed 'foam'-type most people visualize as being 'synthetic'. It's too vague a term, I guess.

 

[Jim Allen]

Though the illustration says "advanced synthetic fiber media" it looks like, and likly is, a cellulose, synthetic blend media... ala the P1. What they do is blend in a certain amount of synthetic fibers. The synthetics tend to increase the efficiency a little without restricting the flow but filling in some of the larger pores caused by the irregular shapes of the cellulose fibers. It still looks more or less like cellulose and is is bonded and formed by a resin into shape you see. just like a normal cellulose filter.

A "blown" or lofted syntheitc media is made up of densely packed fibers on a wire mesh backing. They are more even sized than cellulose fibers, so the pores are smaller but lots more numerous. Because the fibers are usually round, flow is made easier than the rough, irregularly shaped fibers in cellulose (though they are sometimes manufactured in other shapes that offer even better flow than round).

Look HERE for more info, including pics of what the media looks like. You can find other macro images of the different times of media online.

My sufggestion is to buy the filter according tot eh OCI desired. Go full synthetic if you will run a OCI ~ 10K (though many blended filters can do that too). Higher efficiency for it's own sake doesn't hurt but it may not help all that much... or at least be justifiable according to the price premium you must pay.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Thanks for the input! Considering the drain intervals, I'm not worried about paying a premium price - just want the best filter for the job. I'm open to suggestions, be it Purolator/Bosch, Fram or another brand.

 

[OneEyeJack]

It's too bad there is not a better way to understand just what quality a given filter represents and exactly how it performs on some kind of scale so that one filter can be directly compared with another. One other issue is quality control. A couple of years ago I picked up a brand name filter off the shelf and it rattled like bolts in a beer can. If that got by the inspection process you can wonder what else is getting by.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Looks like I'm going with Amsoil's EaO!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
A couple of years ago I picked up a brand name filter off the shelf and it rattled like bolts in a beer can. If that got by the inspection process you can wonder what else is getting by.


What inspection process?

I doubt every filter is inspected ... maybe one out of every 100 just to see if the machines are still making them correctly for the batch being made.

 

[Hyde244]

Synthetic media is only going to give you a couple percentage points of filter advantage over a normal media.

Fram OCOD and Puro Classic give 95% and 97.5% filtration efficiency with basic medias. Is 99% filtration with synthetic media going to make or break the life of your engine? Probably not.

I'd venture a guess that having a silicone ADBV is more important than having a synthetic media.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
A "blown" or lofted syntheitc media is made up of densely packed fibers on a wire mesh backing. They are more even sized than cellulose fibers, so the pores are smaller but lots more numerous. Because the fibers are usually round, flow is made easier than the rough, irregularly shaped fibers in cellulose (though they are sometimes manufactured in other shapes that offer even better flow than round).

The Fram Ultra is built like you describe. http://www.fram.com/products/oil_filters/fram_ultra_oil_filter/index.asp

People steal them, swap filter boxes. Happened tonight. I saw the guy do it. Took it personal because it was the part number I use. Its one thing to rip off Walmart, another to rip off the guy with a short fuse. I didn't turn him in, but.. he wont do it again, all Im gonna say.

 

[artificialist]

RP filters are fully synthetic, but they cost $15 per filter.

The only reason I used them was because they were the only fully synthetic filter I could find at that time.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
RP filters are fully synthetic, but they cost $15 per filter.

The only reason I used them was because they were the only fully synthetic filter I could find at that time.

What are the the details of this filter? (efficiency @20u, adb valve compositin, dirt trapping capacity, etc)

 

[Jim Allen]

The RP is a good filter... it's 99% at 20 um like many of the other premium filters. It has a silicon ADBV (purple in color ( : < ). Some but not all have a base end bypass. The flow chart I have shows the RP #30-8A will flow 20 gpm @ just under 4 psid, with the 5W30 test oil at 175F. An equivalent Fram PH8A under the same circumstances (cellulose media) shows 10 psid @ 20 GPM. I think this psid spread would be typical of a cellulose vs a syn media filter when comparing similar sized filters. I will hopefully get to prove that once I start the filter testing on my DP rig.

I don't have the capacities of those two 8A-sized units, but I know the XG-2 Fram Ultra has 30 grams capacity while the equivalent PH2 cellulose is at 15 grams and other same-application cellulose filters are in the 15-18 gram range as well. 15-18 grams is more than enough for a normal to moderately extended OCI with a clean running engine, but it illustrates a very typical cellulose vs syn media capacity spread as well.

The Fram Ultra at under $10 and, IMO, is every bit as good as the RP in terms of performance. You could argue the bypass valve design in the RP is a little better than the Fram Ultra (which has their well proven style that is used in almost all Fram filters). I would argue against you, asking if that difference is worth the $5 difference in price, considering the Fram piece is well proven and well tested.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
The RP is a good filter... it's 99% at 20 um like many of the other premium filters. It has a silicon ADBV (purple in color ( : < ). Some but not all have a base end bypass. The flow chart I have shows the RP #30-8A will flow 20 gpm @ just under 4 psid, with the 5W30 test oil at 175F. An equivalent Fram PH8A under the same circumstances (cellulose media) shows 10 psid @ 20 GPM.


That's really a low restriction filter. The PureOne in this thread had ~5 PSID with 12 GPM of 5w30 at 200 deg F ... which is still pretty low restriction at such a high flow rate. Obviously, fully synthetic media flows easier than paper/cellulose.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/pureone-flow-vs-psid-data-from-purolator.116457/