Supertech Synthetic 10W-30, 1999 Toyota Camry, 5S-FE, 4572 miles

[OriginHacker21]

I saw SuperTech Full Synthetic 5w30 5gal container for $6.75. Bout fell over... Man, for Amsoil and Mobil - I spend that much just buying ONE QUART.

I think I will have to try this stuff - great report X72!

 

[Mannix]

This is one of the oils I wrote about that uses a high calcium compound as dispersant and anti-wear additive.

 

[X72]

Thanks for the comments! I am not going to pull the valve cover off to see if there is any problem unless it gives me good reason to. The engine runs beautifully so far.

It really is a magnificent car; simple to work on with lots of space in the engine bay. The only problems this car has had are bad strut bearings; the fronts were replaced and the rears rattle when the car is loaded and the interior trim around the window switches is weak and is beginning to separate.

I hope see some more UOA on ST synth.

 

[Winston]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mannix:
This is one of the oils I wrote about that uses a high calcium compound as dispersant and anti-wear additive.

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Thats the ticket! I was there during those memorable few hours that the post existed. There is an awefull lot of calcium in this oil, and the wear is very low. Looks good to me.

 

[BrianWC]

quote:

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Originally posted by den_s:
You don’t have to understand, just use your imagination..

Well, I’m not an oil expert but from what I’ve seen many sludge affected engines usually produce very low metal wear results. Fe1 indicates almost or no wear at all (look at voa and compare)

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I guess my high iron sludge coated saab is destined for a long life then?

It's just good oil. Although, if this stuff dropped to 1.9 in 4k in a toyota engine, sounds like it may not be worth it to run in the saab....

 

[den_s]

quote:

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Originally posted by BrianWC:
I guess my high iron sludge coated saab is destined for a long life then?

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Your iron just like any other heavy engine wear particles will be absorbed by the hot sludge to the point of engine death

 

[BrianWC]

Funny how it shows up in the oil analysis then...

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mannix:
This is one of the oils I wrote about that uses a high calcium compound as dispersant and anti-wear additive.

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I'm glad you chimed in Mannix, however the calcium level in this oil doesn't look like it's at levels greater than many other oils? Special über calcium compound?

 

[buster]

I thought Ca as a dispersant/AW additive was old news? Mobil started using that when SS came out.

 

[Mannix]

For an oil with 4572 miles on it, this shows a high content of Calcium compounds after additive depletion. Normal amounts would be from 1200 to 1700ppm after depletion. I believ I stated before that the virgin amount should be ~2600 ppm.

 

[427Z06]

Hmmm...interesting. When ZDDP is depleted with use, most of the Phosphorus and Zinc atoms remain. Some of the volatile components may "evaporate" within the first few hundred miles, but the rest remains.

 

[JohnBrowning]

I would not use the oil due to TBN alone. I think $12 a gallon for oil that can not make to 6 months or 7500 miles is too much.The shearing is also insane for a so called synthetic 10W30. The wear numbers looked good though.

I would see how Chevron Supreme 10W30, Havoline 10W30,or Mobil 7500 10W30 do? I am guessing that they would do just as well and still cost less. On that same note Rotella-T Synthetic 5W40 is only $14-$15 a gallon at Walmart and would hold up much better!! I think for $2 more Rotella-T Synthetic 5W40 would be a better deal!

 

[Mannix]

Calcium compunds are "ashless" additives therfore deplete with no by-product or atomic trace, unlike zddp.

 

[TooSlick]

The viscosity hasn't increased and the total solids level is low. In addition, the bearing wear is very low. In other words, there are no signs of distress in this engine.

As for the wear rates, this engine always shows low numbers. Combine that with a hot climate that minimizes startup wear and you can see numbers like this. I would add that the additive package of this formulation isn't particularly robust, so I'd limit this engine/oil combo to 5000 miles max.

Finally, additives such as Ca/Mg/Zn/P will show up in a spectrographic analysis, even after they've been rendered inactive through use. So you really can't tell much about additive depletion by comparing VOA's to UOAs. There are ways to evaluate additive depletion, but they're a bit more subtle and involve looking at TBN, oxidation and solids levels.

TS

 

[Mannix]

Granted, the remaining elements will show their spectral code, but if an oil starts with .26% calium with a virgin sample, and shows .20% after 4500 miles, as on this sample, than the loss is from depletion. Calcium is ashless, unlike mg & zinc.

 

[427Z06]

Thanks Mannix, that clears up that conundrum.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Mannix, Let me spell it out for you. This oil's base stock and additive package are not worth the price of the product! Chevron Supreme would do as good for far less and would have a better TBN at the end of the run. The same would be true for Rotella-T Synthetic.The TBN retension is pathetic with this oil! It is about as robust as Popeye's girl Olive-Oil(sp)!!! The only time a Toyota has a bad UOA is if it is sludged up or the viscosity is too thin for that particular engine.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
Chevron Supreme would do as good for far less and would have a better TBN at the end of the run.

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This is a sample size of one (1) for all I know. Do we have any other UOAs of this formulation? Is this a sludgemonster engine?

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
...or the viscosity is too thin for that particular engine.

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In which you'd have to be running paint thinner for it to be too thin.

 

[Mannix]

JohnBrowning, No doubt the the Chevron products are fine. An engine using their oils will last a long, long time, as would any of the quality lubricants. I am partial to a strategy of using a higher concentration of calcium compounds as the secondary anti wear elements such as GTX, ST synthetic, and Valv. duraBlend to name a few. In my business they have shown better performance. But this is only based on my professional opinion. BTW, I have done alot of rersearch on this site the last few days because I have been on sick leave. There seems to be a history of trashing peoples opinions, banning people when they dont walk the line of the regulars and site sponsors, and putting too much reliance on what some people write, but some of the technical things they have written are copied and pasted word for word from the lubrizol website. I too have in the past been asked to verify my credentials(to which I dont mind)very aggressively. I have seen a fellow banned who worked in the technical dept at Exxon Mobil because he stated that the famed german variety of castrol had base oils refined to GroupIII levels. I have seen a fellow by the name of Russ Knize trashed because he questioned the need for oil analysis and trends with results in the low PPM range as being in the noise floor, which they are. I agree with these folks, so maybe I need to contribute elswhere.

 

[427Z06]

Whoa, Mannix. JB just gets a little crotchety when his blood sugar gets a little low. The new guy that shows up in the squadron, bar, neighborhood, etc., always needs to be able to take a little ribbing. You should of seen how we worked Dr. AEHaas over the coals when he first showed up. Stick around and have some fun with us.