Supertech now available in 0w16

[PimTac]

Using 0w16 in a vehicle specced for it will not lead to disaster or worries despite the grumbling here. Now if 0w16 is run in that 95 Chevy Slapper then yes there will be some adverse effects. That engine was not designed for that oil.

And so the thick vs thin debate rages on.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Using 0w16 in a vehicle specced for it will not lead to disaster or worries despite the grumbling here. Now if 0w16 is run in that 95 Chevy Slapper then yes there will be some adverse effects. That engine was not designed for that oil.

And so the thick vs thin debate rages on.

+1

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted by BigShug681
0w16 is thin though

Are my 34 in waist pants thin? No, they're just 34 in waist pants. The question is whether or not they fit me. They may be too tight or too loose (I'm dreaming on...), but that doesn't make them "good" or "bad" inherently. If they fit me, and they meet all other requirements, I can buy, wear and enjoy. If not, I can't.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted by BigShug681
0w16 is thin though

Not if you're comparing it to a 0w-8 oil, or the "lubricant" used in an air bearing (umm, air). I can't believe I'm about to say this, but it is true in this context: it's all relative, especially since these terms we keep using, "thick" and "thin" are subjective, and all relate to a perception of motor oil that has its roots firmly in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Compared to axle grease, 20w-50 is a super thin glass of water.

 

[PandaBear]

I can see this being a good oil to blend with 10w40 / 20w50 on close out, it should get you close to 5w30 or 5w20 depends on how you blend them together.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted by PandaBear
I can see this being a good oil to blend with 10w40 / 20w50 on close out, it should get you close to 5w30 or 5w20 depends on how you blend them together.

Yup. Especially 15w50 Mobil 1

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by PandaBear
I can see this being a good oil to blend with 10w40 / 20w50 on close out, it should get you close to 5w30 or 5w20 depends on how you blend them together.

Or you could, you know, just buy the correct oil?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Using 0w16 in a vehicle specced for it will not lead to disaster or worries despite the grumbling here. Now if 0w16 is run in that 95 Chevy Slapper then yes there will be some adverse effects. That engine was not designed for that oil.

And so the thick vs thin debate rages on.

That is correct. There are however people that will run it in vehicles calling for a 30 or 40 grade oil and telling us of all the benefits/imaginary benefits they've obtained.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I can't help but wonder is engines are really "designed" around a super thin oil like 0W16,or are manufacturers just pushing the envelope to see how many mpg's they can squeeze out? There was a member here years back named Frank (I think?) that used M1 15W50 in all his vehicles,including ones that spaced a W20 oil with excellent results (uoa's,etc).

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by ekpolk
Originally Posted by dogememe
I'll keep my "real" oil or maybe I should put 0w-16 in my 1995 Chevy Silverado for 1k miles and do a UOA... For science... Nah, I don't want to hurt it.

Of course. The part that's so often overlooked is the why. It's not because 0w-16 is "weak" or "thin" or any other subjective label humans might apply to it. It might be harmful because it's the wrong stuff for that engine.


It might be wrong because it's not thick enough (too "thin") for the engine. There is a direct correlation between MOFT and viscosity ... so in essence it really can be "too thin" for some applications. Make the MOFT too small and bad cans start happening.

Not sure the word "weak" even applies well to motor oil. Guess you could say an oil has a "weak film strength" meaning it can't mitigate wear very well when metal-to-metal contact happens due to a "weak" anti-wear additives/formulation. There's a difference between viscosity and film strength, at least how the terms are used in the lubrication industry.

As motor oils get thinner and thinner, the engine protection mechanism moves away from the viscosity factor to the film strength factor. The film strength factor is highly dependent on the anti-wear formulation that helps reduced wear when parts start actually contacting each other - ie, when the MOFT from viscosity become smaller and smaller as the viscosity decreases.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
I can't help but wonder is engines are really "designed" around a super thin oil like 0W16,or are manufacturers just pushing the envelope to see how many mpg's they can squeeze out?


Not all engine parts can be redesigned to work better with thinner and thinner oil. Journal bearing design can be changed, but things like pistons, rings, cams, followers, cam-chains, etc can't really be. Instead, the wear control for those parts will start relying more and more on the anti-wear additive formulation of the oil (ie, "film strength") as the protection from viscosity alone (ie, "film thickness" - MOFT) is slipping away due to the lower viscosity.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30835/lubricant-film-strength

 

[StevieC]

Engineers are aware of the engines requirements before spec'ing an oil.

We have had 20wt's for over a decade in engines that spec 30wt in other countries and we don't see premature engine death because of MOFT being insufficient or HTHS being lower than 3.5.
Especially in oils today that have really great additive packages.

Is there increased wear with 20wt's? Yes but so minuscule it's hard to measure and takes a ton of miles to show up and I mean A TON.
Will you realize it the application calling for a 20wt in a normally operated applications, even if you drive the vehicle until the wheels fall off? No.

It's moot. Use what the owners manual calls for. No need to step up a grade or more in fear of MOFT or HTHS not being sufficient. We have high mileage UOA's here proving this.

Do you really think that Toyota would have staked their reputation on 0w16 in the Camry if it wasn't going to return the reliability that they are supposedly known for?
I highly doubt it especially considering they offer extended warranties for longer than most OE's do.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by PimTac
Using 0w16 in a vehicle specced for it will not lead to disaster or worries despite the grumbling here. Now if 0w16 is run in that 95 Chevy Slapper then yes there will be some adverse effects. That engine was not designed for that oil.

And so the thick vs thin debate rages on.

That is correct. There are however people that will run it in vehicles calling for a 30 or 40 grade oil and telling us of all the benefits/imaginary benefits they've obtained.

Well, I think it was aehaas or someone else who was running 0W-20 in a Ferrari and reporting decent UOA numbers from it?

Anything can run thin oil if it's really cold(below zero) outside. The latest cars needing 0W-16 are using variable output oil pumps, thinner bearing clearances(and Pb-free bearings made from Al-Si-Sn alloys) and other tech in it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Do you really think that Toyota would have staked their reputation on 0w16 in the Camry if it wasn't going to return the reliability that they are supposedly known for?
I highly doubt it especially considering they offer extended warranties for longer than most OE's do.


I'd like to see some VOAs of 0W-16 (and 0W-8) to see what the anti-wear formulation looks like compared to 20 or 30. As the oil gets thinner, the wear control becomes more dependent on the anti-wear additives when parts actually start rubbing harder on each other.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by StevieC
Do you really think that Toyota would have staked their reputation on 0w16 in the Camry if it wasn't going to return the reliability that they are supposedly known for?
I highly doubt it especially considering they offer extended warranties for longer than most OE's do.


I'd like to see some VOAs of 0W-16 (and 0W-8) to see what the anti-wear formulation looks like compared to 20 or 30. As the oil gets thinner, the wear control becomes more dependent on the anti-wear additives when parts actually start rubbing harder on each other.

Not all components in an oil shows up in a VOA. You would need to spend the $1300 or so and reverse engineer a samples formula to find out exactly whats in it like base stocks and in-organic / organic components.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

So exactly how long will it be before junk yards are full of engines spec'ing 16 weight oil?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by StevieC
Do you really think that Toyota would have staked their reputation on 0w16 in the Camry if it wasn't going to return the reliability that they are supposedly known for?
I highly doubt it especially considering they offer extended warranties for longer than most OE's do.


I'd like to see some VOAs of 0W-16 (and 0W-8) to see what the anti-wear formulation looks like compared to 20 or 30. As the oil gets thinner, the wear control becomes more dependent on the anti-wear additives when parts actually start rubbing harder on each other.


One of the major issues is volatility. The 0w-8, 0w-12 and 0w-16 oils from the OEM's all had insanely high Noack volatilities because of the super light bases used to blend them.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by StevieC
Do you really think that Toyota would have staked their reputation on 0w16 in the Camry if it wasn't going to return the reliability that they are supposedly known for?
I highly doubt it especially considering they offer extended warranties for longer than most OE's do.

I'd like to see some VOAs of 0W-16 (and 0W-8) to see what the anti-wear formulation looks like compared to 20 or 30. As the oil gets thinner, the wear control becomes more dependent on the anti-wear additives when parts actually start rubbing harder on each other.

Not all components in an oil shows up in a VOA. You would need to spend the $1300 or so and reverse engineer a samples formula to find out exactly whats in it like base stocks and in-organic / organic components.


I don't think any of the anti-wear compounds in motor oil is automatically part of the base stock. There are only a handful of additives that are used as anti-wear additives from what I understand, unless someone has come up with some new additive not currently used.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted by KCJeep
Engineered to nurse the engine through the warranty period, and make some CAFE kickback bucks in the process. Nothing more.


But once you buy the car you can use what oil you want. In the 70's I used M1 5-20 in my Dodge Slant 6 which called for 10-40. Nooooo problems, but several benefits.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Are engines that people are commonly reporting high oil usage on using "thin" oils aka W20/W16? Could it be possible that long term use of said oils are causing a minute amount of engine wear causing premature oil usage?