So I guess the diesel fuel flush is frowned upon?
Super sludge in a 4.0 jeep engine, need advice.
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Originally Posted By: FLORIDA
So I guess the diesel fuel flush is frowned upon?
Any fast flush could knock a big hunk of something loose and cause you far more problems than you have. Slow and easy wins here IMO.
Maxlife, Rotella dino or T5 in 10w30, Pennzoil Yellow Bottle are all high in detergents and work very well in the 4.0. There are some full syns with more detergents than those but you'll likely be doing relatively short OCI's so a full syn doesn't make sense to me.
Though not heavily promoted as a cleaning oil (unlike Pennzoil), Maxlife is the highest in detergents/dispersants of those I mentioned at around 2600 ppm, Rotella and Pennzoil run about 2,400 ppm. For reference your typical motor oil is usually around 2,100 ppm. None of them will be a cleaning Genie in a bottle though, you'll need patience, LOTS of it.
There are some real good HDEO cleaners above and beyond what Rotella will do BUT they are really only readily available in 15w40's. I'd not run anything that thick in your engine with as much sludge as you have oil flow is probably less than optimum you don't need 15w40 syrup in the crankcase on top of that.
PS I love JeepForum it's a great source for Jeep info but an absolutely HORRID place to have any kind of serious oil discussion. Save that for here.
So I guess the diesel fuel flush is frowned upon?
Any fast flush could knock a big hunk of something loose and cause you far more problems than you have. Slow and easy wins here IMO.
Maxlife, Rotella dino or T5 in 10w30, Pennzoil Yellow Bottle are all high in detergents and work very well in the 4.0. There are some full syns with more detergents than those but you'll likely be doing relatively short OCI's so a full syn doesn't make sense to me.
Though not heavily promoted as a cleaning oil (unlike Pennzoil), Maxlife is the highest in detergents/dispersants of those I mentioned at around 2600 ppm, Rotella and Pennzoil run about 2,400 ppm. For reference your typical motor oil is usually around 2,100 ppm. None of them will be a cleaning Genie in a bottle though, you'll need patience, LOTS of it.
There are some real good HDEO cleaners above and beyond what Rotella will do BUT they are really only readily available in 15w40's. I'd not run anything that thick in your engine with as much sludge as you have oil flow is probably less than optimum you don't need 15w40 syrup in the crankcase on top of that.
PS I love JeepForum it's a great source for Jeep info but an absolutely HORRID place to have any kind of serious oil discussion. Save that for here.
Originally Posted By: FLORIDA
So I guess the diesel fuel flush is frowned upon?
I think any flush in this engine should be frowned upon. Loosening up too much too fast could clog your pick up screen and cause more problems than it solves. I'd just gently clean what you can physically, then do some short OCI's with Pennzoil YB, a high mileage oil, or a HDEO (15W-40). Pay attention to see how black the oil gets and change at 3000 miles for a while...
So I guess the diesel fuel flush is frowned upon?
I think any flush in this engine should be frowned upon. Loosening up too much too fast could clog your pick up screen and cause more problems than it solves. I'd just gently clean what you can physically, then do some short OCI's with Pennzoil YB, a high mileage oil, or a HDEO (15W-40). Pay attention to see how black the oil gets and change at 3000 miles for a while...
I see 2 problems. Imo any damage has already been done. Cleaning it up may introduce more junk into the bottom end and that will kill it. 2 you also have a cooling system disaster. The cooling system will be full of pieces of rust and what not and that stuff will act like sand paper plus it will cause electrolosis.
Its going to nickle and dollar you to death with radiaters,water pumps and heaters. I do not recomend driving it on a trip. Its destined to be an intown car only.
Run it till it dies and plan on replacing everything that coolant has touched then.
Its going to nickle and dollar you to death with radiaters,water pumps and heaters. I do not recomend driving it on a trip. Its destined to be an intown car only.
Run it till it dies and plan on replacing everything that coolant has touched then.
Originally Posted By: dparm
You're better off doing a bunch of short OCIs with a strong-cleaning oil and just being patient.
Mine involved about two or three years of OCIs and driving. It was very lengthy, but the results spoke for themselves. Of course, there still will be parts that aren't cleaned out properly. The oil galleries were still messy in the F-150, but it was coming apart anyway, so that simply didn't matter.
You're better off doing a bunch of short OCIs with a strong-cleaning oil and just being patient.
Mine involved about two or three years of OCIs and driving. It was very lengthy, but the results spoke for themselves. Of course, there still will be parts that aren't cleaned out properly. The oil galleries were still messy in the F-150, but it was coming apart anyway, so that simply didn't matter.
I would run 5quarts of rotella and one quart of atf. For 1000 miles change it and do that 3 or 4 times then depending on how the engine looks use an engine flush. I would do the oil and atf a few times first to remove what I could to minimize possible harm with the flush. The flush does work to.
Thanks for the info. I don't even think I'm gonna pull the rockers, I'll retorque the two rockers I have off right now, clean the gasket surface and put the cover back on. Freeze plugs will be in tomorrow, I'll install them, and than all I have to do is wait on my new header to arrive and I can finish the job. Old manifold was cracked. Then I'll do short interval Rotella T-5 oil changes, its cheap at wally world.
ATF is neither high in detergents nor is it designed for your engine. Ignore suggestions to use it; keep it out of there. The Rotella you've selected doesn't need any "help."
I would replace the thermostat, just to make sure, with factory correct heat range.
Almost looks like engine never reached full operating temp.
Almost looks like engine never reached full operating temp.
Originally Posted By: oldhp
I would replace the thermostat, just to make sure, with factory correct heat range.
Almost looks like engine never reached full operating temp.
I'll change the thermostat too, its inexpensive. Dash gauge read 210, from what I have researched it seems normal.
I would replace the thermostat, just to make sure, with factory correct heat range.
Almost looks like engine never reached full operating temp.
I'll change the thermostat too, its inexpensive. Dash gauge read 210, from what I have researched it seems normal.
I've seen much worse on a fella's Ford. He didn't change oil often... just keep adding STP (that super thick stuff back in the day in a blue can). And a lot of it.
If it runs okay, instead of a harsh cleaning that may knock loose chunks, maybe some higher detergent oils (HDEO/conventional) and short OCIs. Maybe on the last tank of gas before an OC, a little MMO in the mix.
Find a sale on some oil & filters, stock up for some short OCIs. Keep at it.
If it runs okay, instead of a harsh cleaning that may knock loose chunks, maybe some higher detergent oils (HDEO/conventional) and short OCIs. Maybe on the last tank of gas before an OC, a little MMO in the mix.
Find a sale on some oil & filters, stock up for some short OCIs. Keep at it.
You said that chunks of old oil had already fallen into the engine.
When you take the rocker arms off, more will fall in.
It's probably a good idea to pull the pushrods out as well, remove the oil pan, and flush it from the top. All that crud that fell down into there could easily block a gallery and kill a bearing for you. (I should know, it happened to me with an engine similarly sludged)
Once it's back together, you'll still have whatever was used to flush it inside, so perhaps a 500 mile OCI the first time is in order. After that, frequent oil changes are the way to go as previously mentioned. Any brand name 5w30 dino is what I would use, the least expensive that can be found since you will be going a max of 2000 miles before another change.
IMHO each oil change, be sure to take it on some long runs so it can get good and hot; short tripping this engine isn't going to help things.
In the engine I killed, it ran fine for about 1/2 hour before a bearing went; so the first few drives after surgery, recommending you stay close to home.
Good luck saving this one! Please post back to continue the story.
When you take the rocker arms off, more will fall in.
It's probably a good idea to pull the pushrods out as well, remove the oil pan, and flush it from the top. All that crud that fell down into there could easily block a gallery and kill a bearing for you. (I should know, it happened to me with an engine similarly sludged)
Once it's back together, you'll still have whatever was used to flush it inside, so perhaps a 500 mile OCI the first time is in order. After that, frequent oil changes are the way to go as previously mentioned. Any brand name 5w30 dino is what I would use, the least expensive that can be found since you will be going a max of 2000 miles before another change.
IMHO each oil change, be sure to take it on some long runs so it can get good and hot; short tripping this engine isn't going to help things.
In the engine I killed, it ran fine for about 1/2 hour before a bearing went; so the first few drives after surgery, recommending you stay close to home.
Good luck saving this one! Please post back to continue the story.
this jeep engine will probably go another 200,000 miles
I hope so. Also after researching the procedure on removing the oil pan, I think its out of my league. People talking about removing front supsension parts, exhaust, starter, motor mounts, jacking up the engine. I can't do all that on my dirt driveway under a shade tree.
I think I just want to do everything I can to help my engine minus pulling the oil pan.
I think I just want to do everything I can to help my engine minus pulling the oil pan.
You're definitely going to want to pull the pan and get the [censored] out of the bottom end. Otherwise it's going to sludge up the pickup tube.
If you can't do that - remove all of the sludge from the top end and don't do any flushing.
Cheap dino at short intervals.
If you can't do that - remove all of the sludge from the top end and don't do any flushing.
Cheap dino at short intervals.
Originally Posted By: FLORIDA
I'll change the thermostat too, its inexpensive. Dash gauge read 210, from what I have researched it seems normal.
Yes that or a hair under is correct and normal for a 4.0 JEEP.
I'll change the thermostat too, its inexpensive. Dash gauge read 210, from what I have researched it seems normal.
Yes that or a hair under is correct and normal for a 4.0 JEEP.
Given the info provided here, what oil do you think would be best for my engine in the long haul? I'm not talking about whatever cheap stuff gets used for the short interval changes, but after that knowing the kind of neglect this truck has had before.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: FLORIDA
I'll change the thermostat too, its inexpensive. Dash gauge read 210, from what I have researched it seems normal.
Yes that or a hair under is correct and normal for a 4.0 JEEP.
It actually is a hair under.
Originally Posted By: FLORIDA
I'll change the thermostat too, its inexpensive. Dash gauge read 210, from what I have researched it seems normal.
Yes that or a hair under is correct and normal for a 4.0 JEEP.
It actually is a hair under.
Originally Posted By: FLORIDA
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: FLORIDA
I'll change the thermostat too, its inexpensive. Dash gauge read 210, from what I have researched it seems normal.
Yes that or a hair under is correct and normal for a 4.0 JEEP.
It actually is a hair under.
You probably don't need to change the thermostat then. Just save it for if and when you overhaul the cooling system.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: FLORIDA
I'll change the thermostat too, its inexpensive. Dash gauge read 210, from what I have researched it seems normal.
Yes that or a hair under is correct and normal for a 4.0 JEEP.
It actually is a hair under.
You probably don't need to change the thermostat then. Just save it for if and when you overhaul the cooling system.
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