Summer tires aren't meant for snow, but does that mean they can only be driven during summer temperatures?

[Jimmy_Russells]

Ok...that makes sense and yes, I've heard this before. I really like this guy's tire (or should I say tyre?) reviews/channel on YouTube. He mentions in this video that he really can't believe they don't get the Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 over there b/c it's so good. His review videos are very good. Folks that talk smack about all seasons "no seasons" etc.....I really think most folks would be pretty happy with the PS4 all season as a single tire weapon in many parts of the U.S....heck...I tracked it and it isn't really that bad, just doesn't handle lap after lap heat that well but I had a blast on it when I first started doing some track days before I was commited to a second (and third!) set of wheels/tires (summers and 200s). If you can't send it hard on a public road hard on these I'm not sure what to say - it comes on the base C8 Vette. Does that mean it's as good as a summer for dry grip? No. Does that mean it's a great tire if you live in North Dakota with a real winter? No. But for the middle ground it's killer. I could ditch my summer setup and just use this and be happy if needed. We don't really get much snow here in the Richmond, VA area but I've had them in a light snow/snow on the road with no issues as well.

I watch this guy's channel too, although admittedly only summer and winter tire tests usually. It's kind of funny he's complaining about not getting the PS4AS because they get so many more new tires than we do it's borderline stupid. They're on something like the GoodYear Asymmetric 6 and we're still on the 3. They have the ContiSport Contact 7 (class defining performance in its last test) and we don't even get it because the have the North America specific ECS... Etc etc. Plus if you convert the pricing from the GBP he usually uses, tires are dirt cheap over there.

 

[TiGeo]

Alright, but those tires still have mountain snowflake symbols. A tire considered all-season in North America like the Pilot Sport 4 A/S would still be considered a summer tire in Europe.

That's wild - I didn't know this.

 

[TiGeo]

I watch this guy's channel too, although admittedly only summer and winter tire tests usually. It's kind of funny he's complaining about not getting the PS4AS because they get so many more new tires than we do it's borderline stupid. They're on something like the GoodYear Asymmetric 6 and we're still on the 3. They have the ContiSport Contact 7 (class defining performance in its last test) and we don't even get it because the have the North America specific ECS... Etc etc. Plus if you convert the pricing from the GBP he usually uses, tires are dirt cheap over there.

I agree; the ContiSport Contact 7 looks great/love to try it he really likes it. I did really like his take on the UHP all season PS4 and how it actually does do really well across the board which matches well with my experience with it. I also liked how he tested the winter tire in warm/track conditions. I've never had winter tires..ever, so no comments there, I've never even seen a set on a car growing up in the parts of VA I've lived (coastal/Virginia Beach, centra/Richmond area, and northern/outside of DC).

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

That's wild - I didn't know this.

Basically, the M+S rating over there doesn't mean anything. They are strict, in Scandinavia and around the Alps at least, winter tires are required certain months of the year (mountain symbol), or at the very least they are required to drive over certain mountain passes. So that is why they define them strictly as summer/winter (or now I guess also all-season, which we call all-weather).

Over here of course it's pretty much a free for all. Even here in Canada the only place that requires mountain symbol is Quebec. Here in BC we require "winter tires" to drive over some mountain passes but they include M+S in their definition of winter tires.

 

[TiGeo]

Basically, the M+S rating over there doesn't mean anything. They are strict, in Scandinavia and around the Alps at least, winter tires are required certain months of the year (mountain symbol), or at the very least they are required to drive over certain mountain passes. So that is why they define them strictly as summer/winter (or now I guess also all-season, which we call all-weather).

Over here of course it's pretty much a free for all. Even here in Canada the only place that requires mountain symbol is Quebec. Here in BC we require "winter tires" to drive over some mountain passes but they include M+S in their definition of winter tires.

Ok makes sense, also likely greatly cuts down on winter driving drama/crashes.

 

[Wheel366]

Then.......... A few years later I had a 95 Pathfinder to drive in the winter but my douche bag mechanic had it and wouldn't give it back (long long looooooooooooooooooooooooong story). So, I had to take my S to work. I was going down the same driveway, hit the brakes to slow down and turned the wheel. Well, the car kept going straight right into the hill and cracked my bumper. I was pissed, obviously. I came home and put the Blizzaks on. I didn't even want to drive the car since I had the Pathfinder but that douche messed me up. So, I was mad because I didn't have the truck I paid for AND I cracked the bumper. I still haven't replaced that bumper (I will after I fix the 1000 other things wrong with it). The tires that were on it were Michelin Pilot Sport. The one with the Y tread.

I don't drive that car at the moment so I don't need any new tires but now with kids tires are a big deal for me. I don't have the money for separate rims and/or tires anymore nor the room I don't do summer tires. If/when I get the S back on the road and get tires, I WILL only get performance tires since I have the Subarus and CR-V now. Before I bought the Legacy, I got a set of Blizzak WS60 for the car. I basically drove them one season and then bought a used A4. I put them on the A4 for one season and never used them again. They are still sitting in the garage with maybe 5k miles on them but they are older now. I need to get rid of them. I want to sell them but I know the tires are not worth anything. What I do want to sell WITH the tires is the rims. They aren't pretty lookin but make a good set of winter tires for a B5/B6 Audi. And myabe one day, I'll actually find someone who wants them.

 

[UG_Passat]

I think the i3 was just a mediocre tire, which debuted in 2005. Most UHP summer tires are now quite impressive in the wet, the sport comp 2 is rated AA traction and many tires test better than it.
I suspect now there are a few UHP all seasons that work as well or better on the street, in the wet and dry but I wouldn't count on them in the snow either!
For your driving I'd get a good 3 season tire with good wet performance, and winter tire with good clear hwy manners that lasts, something like the old Xice3, Xice2. I love the Xice2's we have on the Outback as most of the time it is driving on mostly clear or wet highways and they are like an all-season for noise and wear.

the i3 wasn't a UHP tire to begin with. Over here in US/Canada, summer tires are assumed to be only belonging on performance cars, not your run of the mill family car, thus the market over here is UHP summer, max performance summer, etc.

Go to europe, they have summer tires for family cars from large family cars to tiny family cars.

The thing is in Europe there aren't really all-season tires... There are summer tires and winter tires, basically anything without the mountain symbol is considered a summer tire. So for them to call this tire a summer is not surprising. Looking at pictures it is definitely what we would consider an all-season over here.

There are all-season tires. It's a young segment in europe that is the hottest segment with tire manufacturers premium to Chinese tires are getting into. Since the Tyre Review youtube site was mentioned, "European all-season" tires are equivalent to the US/Canada all-weather tire. Over here, the all-weather segment is slowly growing, but there are more offerings in Europe. Bridgestone, Goodyear, Continental have their all-weather offerings that they do not market over here.

Over here, know what's the difference between an All-weather tire and a dedicated winter tire? Both are M+S and 3PMSF, but all-weather tires are required to have UTQG ratings, which dedicated winter tires are not required of.

 

[edyvw]

I watch this guy's channel too, although admittedly only summer and winter tire tests usually. It's kind of funny he's complaining about not getting the PS4AS because they get so many more new tires than we do it's borderline stupid. They're on something like the GoodYear Asymmetric 6 and we're still on the 3. They have the ContiSport Contact 7 (class defining performance in its last test) and we don't even get it because the have the North America specific ECS... Etc etc. Plus if you convert the pricing from the GBP he usually uses, tires are dirt cheap over there.

The reason is that many countries in Europe have mandatory snow tires. People are pushed to (rightly so) buy two sets. I always had two sets before moving here.
So, why driving on all seasons or whatever derivative? New cars there come with summer tires. For example, two Skoda Octavia 1.9tdi (A5) I bought came with Bridgestone Turanza ER300 and another one came with Continental SportContact 3 (Bridgestone were mediocre at best).
There is big push for all weather or as in Europe they are classified, all season tires. But it is market dependent. In most Germany, one can get away with those tires. In Austria, Switzerland, Slovenia, mountains parts on Italy, France etc.? No. So, I think legislators already addressed that in some countries.

 

[AJW001]

My experience with the Michelin PSAS4 aligns with Tyre Review and as others have noted. That they are UHP yet an all season is pretty darn impressive. Sure it doesn't have the ice/snow traction of my Nokians. But sub 0C and light snow in a pinch, you won't get stuck on the PSAS4. Does it have the summer traction and extreme heat and handling capabilities as a dedicated summer, no and I don't need it to be on the street.

 

[LostInTransit]

Viewing tire sites, One will see all weather, summer and winter tires listed on the site. This means that one would have to rotate tires during these months for the best handing. So if the tire says summer, than thats the only time these tires can be driven. However, Even if one gets caught in a winter snow storm they can be driven, but would not have the potential to pull the vehicle out of dangerous snow or ice etc.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

How long ago was that? Good modern summers like Conti ECS or Michelin PS4S get excellent ratings on wet pavement...(at the appropriate temps)

They get good ratings against tires within their category but with regards to hydroplaning resistance there's no getting around the solid blocking which is inherent with a majority of high end Summer tires. Take a look at the "float speed" of the PS4 vs CrossClimate.

Michelin CrossClimate 2 Test, Reviews & Ratings - Is Michelin Cross Climate 2 Good All Season Tire? | AllTyreTests.com

Michelin CrossClimate 2 is a Premium Touring All Season Tire with directional tread pattern, designed for Passenger cars and SUV. The tire replaced the Michelin CrossClimate+. Key performance Dry performance 99.91% Wet performance 95.33% Aquaplaning 95.78% Snow performance 98.89% Noise 99.05%...

alltyretests.com

Michelin Pilot Sport 4 Test, Review & Rating - Is Michelin PS4 Good Summer Tire? | AllTyreTests.com

Test and review of the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 (PS4) from the German magazines Auto Bild and Auto Bild Sport Cars. Experts have tested tire on dry and wet surfaces and compared to similar summer tires.

alltyretests.com

 

[krzyss]

Hydroplaning is not the only metrics for wet handling performance.
The CC2 tread design greatly helps with water evacuation, IMHO hence very good number in this particular test.

We would need wet breaking, wet lateral g performance too and wet slalom time - all on the same vehicle, in similar conditions.

Krzyś

PS
Do PS4S look better than others?

Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S Test, Review & Ratings - Is It Good Summer Tire? | AllTyreTests.com

Test and review of the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S from the German Sport Auto. Experts have tested tire on dry and wet sufraces and compared to 7 summer tires.

alltyretests.com

"Float speed 88.1 km/h" for "255/35 R19 front at 275/35 R19 rear". These are W I D E tires more prone to aquaplaning.

 

[TiGeo]

Hydroplaning is not the only metrics for wet handling performance.
The CC2 tread design greatly helps with water evacuation, IMHO hence very good number in this particular test.

We would need wet breaking, wet lateral g performance too and wet slalom time - all on the same vehicle, in similar conditions.

Krzyś

PS
Do PS4S look better than others?

Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S Test, Review & Ratings - Is It Good Summer Tire? | AllTyreTests.com

Test and review of the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S from the German Sport Auto. Experts have tested tire on dry and wet sufraces and compared to 7 summer tires.

alltyretests.com

"Float speed 88.1 km/h" for "255/35 R19 front at 275/35 R19 rear". These are W I D E tires more prone to aquaplaning.

Tyrereview YouTube link should have that in the video I linked.