"Summary of the Toyota Mess?" Thread missing

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Originally Posted By: LexusAussie
The "Toyota Fiasco" as someone put it is only a fiasco in North America.

No incidents are being reported outside of North America because we know the difference between the accelerator and brake pedals.

The thread concerned needs to be restored with any offending political posts removed


Why the NASA and National Acadamy of Sciences involvement then? I doubt it's a human error if these two entities are involved.... Just food for thought.
 
Originally Posted By: edhackett
Is the programming of the ECU in the North American cars identical to those sold in other markets?

Ed


The programming of the ECU is often different between California and Federal emissions.
 
Originally Posted By: LexusAussie
The "Toyota Fiasco" as someone put it is only a fiasco in North America.




Hmmmm.... If what you are saying is remotely true, I wonder why Toyota themselves were doing their usual "double secret" recall in 31 different countries.....before Congress and the US media blitz even started.....



......."NHTSA said documents provided by Toyota showed the automaker had known about the sticky pedal defect since at least Sept. 29, 2009, when it issued repair procedures to distributors in 31 European countries and Canada to address complaints of sticking pedals, sudden increases in engine RPM and sudden vehicle acceleration.


The government said the documents also show that Toyota knew that owners in the United States had experienced the same problems."
 
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Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Hmmmm.... If what you are saying is remotely true, I wonder why Toyota themselves were doing their usual "double secret" recall in 31 different countries.....before Congress and the US media blitz even started.....


Why are Americans so US centric (and conspiracy theorists to boot)? There have been no incidents reported outside of North America that I can discern. No incidents reported in Australia that's for sure. Issuing a recall is not the same thing as an incident.

Like all Global companies (US companies aside and their attempts at it have been abysmal), most parts are standardised across common model ranges. If one major market experiences issues (as doubtful as they are)and a recall is decided on it makes sense to conduct that recall in all markets that use that part (whether incidents are reported or not). It's called Globalisation.

The hysteria (lets call it what it is) only exists in the US which has a firm history of this sort of thing (remember the Audi "Unintended Acceleration" issue in the 1980's subsequently proven to be a fabrication by 60 Minutes?). Any manufacturer would wish to (and do)keep a recall low-key (particularly when it is still not proven that there was an actual issue and only in small numbers) to protect their market. Mat failure? TMC use the same fixing system worldwide and again, no incidents reported outside of North America.

No offense but I remain sceptical that the issue is anything more than idiots not being able to tell the brake from the accelerator pedal. Given the number of vehicles sold how many incidents have been reported?

Have you all forgotten the Firestone tyre and Ford Explorer issues?
 
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So you are agreeing that, for some reason, Toyota drivers in the USA have a problem figuring out how the brake pedal and gearshift are supposed to work?

I'll go along with that. Nothing I see on my daily commute seems to indicate otherwise.
 
Absolutely. They do however know how to text, apply make up, eat and download an Ipod onto the car stereo whilst driving. I don't know how they could possibly unintentiuonally hit the wrong control.
 
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Originally Posted By: LexusAussie
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Hmmmm.... If what you are saying is remotely true, I wonder why Toyota themselves were doing their usual "double secret" recall in 31 different countries.....before Congress and the US media blitz even started.....


TMC use the same fixing system worldwide and again, no incidents reported outside of North America


Toyotas own documents reflect otherwise. There are a number of reported incidents in Japan as well as in Europe. I will grant you that the media frenzy in America is beyond other places. And in many ways uncalled for. But the fact remains, there are incidents of UA outside NA. Toyota doesn't do fix's in 31 different countries for no reason at all.
 
Originally Posted By: LexusAussie
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Hmmmm.... If what you are saying is remotely true, I wonder why Toyota themselves were doing their usual "double secret" recall in 31 different countries.....before Congress and the US media blitz even started.....


Why are Americans so US centric (and conspiracy theorists to boot)? There have been no incidents reported outside of North America that I can discern. No incidents reported in Australia that's for sure. Issuing a recall is not the same thing as an incident.

Like all Global companies (US companies aside and their attempts at it have been abysmal), most parts are standardised across common model ranges. If one major market experiences issues (as doubtful as they are)and a recall is decided on it makes sense to conduct that recall in all markets that use that part (whether incidents are reported or not). It's called Globalisation.

The hysteria (lets call it what it is) only exists in the US which has a firm history of this sort of thing (remember the Audi "Unintended Acceleration" issue in the 1980's subsequently proven to be a fabrication by 60 Minutes?). Any manufacturer would wish to (and do)keep a recall low-key (particularly when it is still not proven that there was an actual issue and only in small numbers) to protect their market. Mat failure? TMC use the same fixing system worldwide and again, no incidents reported outside of North America.

No offense but I remain sceptical that the issue is anything more than idiots not being able to tell the brake from the accelerator pedal. Given the number of vehicles sold how many incidents have been reported?

Have you all forgotten the Firestone tyre and Ford Explorer issues?


Are you sure you'd like to stick with that answer? 'cause the AP seems to report otherwise.....make sure to read paragraph 2 where there were actual complaints in Europe too. Must have been dumb transplants from America or something like that.....
33.gif
 
Originally Posted By: LexusAussie
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Hmmmm.... If what you are saying is remotely true, I wonder why Toyota themselves were doing their usual "double secret" recall in 31 different countries.....before Congress and the US media blitz even started.....


Why are Americans so US centric (and conspiracy theorists to boot)? There have been no incidents reported outside of North America that I can discern. No incidents reported in Australia that's for sure. Issuing a recall is not the same thing as an incident.


If the percentage of "incidents" were the same for all other manufacturers as Toyota *in the US* then your argument might have some merit. Sure- a certain (possibly large!) fraction of the Toyota incidents in the US are "oops, wrong pedal" incidents. No one doubts that. But the fact that the percentage of incidents for Toyotas is markedly higher than any other manufacturer (and this was true BEFORE the publicity, which has largely invalidated any future tracking of reported incidents unfortunately) says that *something* is different about Toyota versus the other guys.

As for the implied insult about American driving skills... All I will say is that I seriously doubt that there are truly "no incidents" reported in Australia either. Your feet are as big as ours... ;-)
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
If the percentage of "incidents" were the same for all other manufacturers as Toyota *in the US* then your argument might have some merit. Sure- a certain (possibly large!) fraction of the Toyota incidents in the US are "oops, wrong pedal" incidents. No one doubts that. But the fact that the percentage of incidents for Toyotas is markedly higher than any other manufacturer (and this was true BEFORE the publicity, which has largely invalidated any future tracking of reported incidents unfortunately) says that *something* is different about Toyota versus the other guys.


How many incidents reported across how many cars across what time period? As an example, 3 Incidents reported in October from what I can see of which TMC could verify 2. Two out of how many vehicles sold? The Fourth Estate (particularly the US Media) and politicians (bad everywhere) are not reknowned for getting their facts straight and responding appropriately

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
As for the implied insult about American driving skills... All I will say is that I seriously doubt that there are truly "no incidents" reported in Australia either. Your feet are as big as ours... ;-)


Our media and governing bodies are just as idiotic as yours and I can categorically state that these incidents are NOT being reported. TMC sales have risen here despite all the negative US publicity.

I'm sorry about the implied insult. It wasn't mean't to be implied. I've spent quite a bit of time in the US. US vehicles have more warning buzzers, stickers and assorted protective devices to protect US citizens than I have ever encountered driving vehicles in Europe, Australia and Asia. This leaves me with the firm impression that the US has a disproportionate number of idiots on its roads (I'm sure no one on this Forum) so please bear with the rest of the world if we remain sceptical.
 
So, it goes from "no reported incidents outside NA" to "how many over what period".....Who's the idiot here?

Were there reports of UA in Europe in Japan long before the Media blitz in the States, yes or no?


First you say that only idiot Americans are reporting this UA. Then, people post links to articles and TOYOTA documents that clearly show otherwise.....And then you change the story to, Well, how many over what time frame? Get a clue, the idiot is the person who ignores real evidence when they are faced with it. Your contention that this is NA only is flat out wrong, but feel free to be Mr Toyodas lap dog apologist and ignore the facts.

Did you even bother to read the linked articles? Have you taken any time to read for yourself some of the 70,000 pages of Toyota documents? Maybe before labeling an enbtire continents drivers as idiots, you should educate yourself a bit. Toyota themselves have said there are reports in Japan and Europe, didn't you get the memo from your boss?
 
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
So, it goes from "no reported incidents outside NA" to "how many over what period".....Who's the idiot here?

Were there reports of UA in Europe in Japan long before the Media blitz in the States, yes or no?


First you say that only idiot Americans are reporting this UA. Then, people post links to articles and TOYOTA documents that clearly show otherwise.....And then you change the story to, Well, how many over what time frame? Get a clue, the idiot is the person who ignores real evidence when they are faced with it. Your contention that this is NA only is flat out wrong, but feel free to be Mr Toyodas lap dog apologist and ignore the facts.

Did you even bother to read the linked articles? Have you taken any time to read for yourself some of the 70,000 pages of Toyota documents? Maybe before labeling an enbtire continents drivers as idiots, you should educate yourself a bit. Toyota themselves have said there are reports in Japan and Europe, didn't you get the memo from your boss?


Get off your high horse and leave the personal insults at home as well. Happy to stand corrected when actual evidence is provided. You haven't provided any "evidence" at all. Links to media articles stirring up hysteria are not evidence. Post official reports with Statistics or links to same. Haven't seen one posted here. Merely supposition and regurgitation of media reports. "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story" as the old media saying goes.

I will retract one statement. There has been one incident reported in Australia this morning. Some idiot in Melbourne hit a wall in his Toyota Yaris. Admitted that he hit the accelerator rather than the brake. Being breath tested by the cops.

You are completely missing the point. There is no denying that US vehicles have a significantly higher level of warning buzzers, signs and other items not deemed warranted in other countries. I'm certainly not calling all Americans idiots however you do appear to have a higher than average share of same compared to other countries just on this one thing. Safety warnings etc come about because some moron has done something stupid. It's not just my opinion, other posters agree with this (check this thread).

Given the above, there is still reasonable doubt that there is a widespread problem. Recalls are a commercial matter rather than anything else. Sometimes its better to undertake a recall and be seen to be doing something (even if it's about nothing) than not doing anything. Stupid I know but a fact of life in Business.
 
Originally Posted By: LexusAussie
...There is no denying that US vehicles have a significantly higher level of warning buzzers, signs and other items not deemed warranted in other countries.
Personally, I have not found that to be the case having lived many years in the US, UK, NZ, and Germany. And in first-world countries except for Germany, my observations are that drivers have roughly the same abilities, with those living in the more densely populated areas displaying better skills. On average, German drivers are far better than anywhere else.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
*something* is different about Toyota versus the other guys.


Hmm..what could that be..I'm left with two choices.

(1)Toyotas have some sort of defect that causes this problem, and they leave that factory with the defect

or

(2)Toyotas have some sort of defect that causes this problem, and that defect installs itself between the steering wheel and the seat after the vehicle arrives at the dealer. This defect seems not to install itself as much in vehicles of other makes.
 
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Toyotas have some sort of defect that causes this problem, and that defect installs itself between the steering wheel and the seat after the vehicle arrives at the dealer. This defect seems not to install itself as much in vehicles of other makes.


ROTFLMAO.

Love your work!
 
Originally Posted By: Zedhed
They will leave up all negative posts about American vehicles, but pull any about Yotoda promptly.....

Wait, let me make this one disappear.....Toyota is ________ !!!


Oh please -- get a life.

Hmmmmmmmm -- thread still here -- and check my sig before you blow any more fuses...
 
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